Cespedes Re-signs with the Mets

[ptatc]

Erik Johnson for Ozuna and then sign a starting pitcher

That works too.

[Bob Sacamano]

That works too.

 

I don't think that gets it done from Miami's standpoint but we'll see. Definitely works for me though.

[fathom]

I don't think that gets it done from Miami's standpoint but we'll see. Definitely works for me though.

 

Hopefully the Rangers get Ozuna, and that takes them out of the running for Upton

[BlackSox13]

I think the likelihood of the Sox trading for an outfielder has gone up. Imo, the FA outfielders are too costly. We shall see. The rest of this week and weekend should be a fun ride!

[caulfield12]

Ozuna was a four plus WAR guy just two years ago, is still under control for a long time and can play CF.

 

Like Inciarte, it's going to take more than Adams "plus" to get him.

 

We just don't have enough quality minor league depth remaining to not have to surrender Anderson or Fulmer. If you're all in, it means trading Anderson and having no long-term deal in sight for SS or catcher. The other teams with top 10-20 systems are better positioned for this move.

 

If you assume Anderson is worth 20+ WAR at SS, that's a tough pill to swallow. If you're not sold on him sticking at short, then you deal him for Ozuna, but it's an incredibly tough call to make for Hahn.

Edited January 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[Bob Sacamano]

Ozuna was a four plus WAR guy just two years ago, is still under control for a long time and can play CF.

 

Like Inciarte, it's going to take more than Adams "plus" to get him.

 

We just don't have enough quality minor league depth remaining to not have to surrender Anderson or Fulmer. If you're all in, it means trading Anderson and having no long-term deal in sight for SS or catcher. The other teams with top 10-20 systems are better positioned for this move.

 

Exactly. Which is why I'd rather just sign a bat since it only costs money.

 

[SoCalSox]

I think the likelihood of the Sox trading for an outfielder has gone up. Imo, the FA outfielders are too costly. We shall see. The rest of this week and weekend should be a fun ride!

 

How much more can the Sox dip into their system at this point, though?

 

That's my biggest concern.

[southsider2k5]

Erik Johnson for Ozuna and then sign a starting pitcher

 

That wouldn't come close from the sounds of what they have been asking for.

[ptatc]

Ozuna was a four plus WAR guy just two years ago, is still under control for a long time and can play CF.

 

Like Inciarte, it's going to take more than Adams "plus" to get him.

 

We just don't have enough quality minor league depth remaining to not have to surrender Anderson or Fulmer. If you're all in, it means trading Anderson and having no long-term deal in sight for SS or catcher. The other teams with top 10-20 systems are better positioned for this move.

They are not all in to the pint of trading anderson or fulmer. If RH wouldn't trade them in the Frazier package, he wouldn't do it for ozuna. If the mlbtr texas package is to believed than a package centered around adams may work. Not syaing it will but it's another option to explore.

[Balta1701]

How much more can the Sox dip into their system at this point, though?

 

That's my biggest concern.

If you're not willing to trade Anderson or Fulmer and you hesitate on Adams then either:

1. You land Cespedes

2. You land Upton

3. You land 1-2 of the lesser guys and for some reason are confident that puts you over the top.

 

If the Sox aren't willing to dip into their system at that level, and pay the price it will take for a guy in a trade equivalent to the top guys, they still need to come up with something and they better believe it makes them a division contender. Really no other options. It has to be one of those 3 or trading someone they don't want to trade.

[SoCalSox]

If you're not willing to trade Anderson or Fulmer and you hesitate on Adams then either:

1. You land Cespedes

2. You land Upton

3. You land 1-2 of the lesser guys and for some reason are confident that puts you over the top.

 

If the Sox aren't willing to dip into their system at that level, and pay the price it will take for a guy in a trade equivalent to the top guys, they still need to come up with something and they better believe it makes them a division contender. Really no other options. It has to be one of those 3 or trading someone they don't want to trade.

 

That's what I would think, too.

 

My biggest worry is that they aren't going to buck up for one of the top 2 remaining guys.

 

Cespedes still makes the most sense in terms of availability & ties but I'm worried they are going to limit themselves on years alone & screw themselves.

[Balta1701]

Ozuna was a four plus WAR guy just two years ago, is still under control for a long time and can play CF.

 

Like Inciarte, it's going to take more than Adams "plus" to get him.

 

We just don't have enough quality minor league depth remaining to not have to surrender Anderson or Fulmer. If you're all in, it means trading Anderson and having no long-term deal in sight for SS or catcher. The other teams with top 10-20 systems are better positioned for this move.

 

If you assume Anderson is worth 20+ WAR at SS, that's a tough pill to swallow. If you're not sold on him sticking at short, then you deal him for Ozuna, but it's an incredibly tough call to make for Hahn.

FWIW:

Marlins wanted No. 1 starter for Ozuna. That didn't help his trade market. Haven't heard any buzz on him in a while. https://t.co/f1AySoBhkQ

 

— Jerry Crasnick (@jcrasnick) January 6, 2016

[SoCalSox]

I think the White Sox become instant contenders if they add one of the big 2 but if they fail to do that, I just can't see how adding a Fowler or Jackson gets them where they need to be.

[caulfield12]

FWIW:

 

On one hand, the Marlins can't price themselves out of the market when there are lots of veteran OFers who be acquired for less talent but taking on more salary. Ozuna and Inciarte have much more appeal because of age.

 

Ozuna is also a player they're seemingly going to have to move because of Loria's whims.

 

That said, like a Puig or Chapman, there's a point where the reward outweighs the risk for every team on the market.

 

Whether that price is Anderson or Fulmer, it's not going to be garbage or some combination of three to five top 5-20 players in our system with limited upsides. I don't think Hawkins and Adams gets it done, for example.

Edited January 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

On one hand, the Marlins can't price themselves out of the market when there are lots of veterans who becacquired for less talent but taking on more salary.

 

Ozuna is a player they're seemingly going to have to move because of Loria's whims.

 

That said, like a Puig or Chapman, there's a point where the reward outweighs the risk fo acquiring teams.

 

Whether that price is Anderson or Fulmer, it's not going to be garbage or some combination of three to five top 6-15 players in our system with limited upsides. I don't think Hawkins and Adams gets it done, for example.

 

I don't get the impression that the Marlins particularly care if a player is unhappy or not.

 

[caulfield12]

You have quite a knack for repeatedly mentioning Inciarte in multiple threads that have nothing to do with him.

 

Fine, do you want a separate thread on him?

 

Yes or no?

 

Or to stick all that into the catch-all of other outfield options...which is cluttered already.

 

I'm sure sooner or later if Cespedes is off the table there will be individual threads about 10-15 different possibilities popping up on a daily basis based on which ones are getting the most twitter mentions connecting them to the Whie Sox somehow.

Edited January 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

I think the White Sox become instant contenders if they add one of the big 2 but if they fail to do that, I just can't see how adding a Fowler or Jackson gets them where they need to be.

If Justin Upton, a 3.6 fWAR player last year and 4.0 fWAR the year before that, makes them a competitor, then Dexter Fowler, a 3.2 fWAR player last year and 1.4 fWAR the year before that leaves them still pretty darn competitive. That's not the difference between 88 and 82 wins. If Dexter Fowler doesn't make them competitive, then the big 2 probably doesn't make them competitive either. They'd have a tiny bit of extra work to do in the latter case.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

My predictions: Davis to BAL, Cespedes CWS, Upton Giants, Parra DET.

[caulfield12]

If Justin Upton, a 3.6 fWAR player last year and 4.0 fWAR the year before that, makes them a competitor, then Dexter Fowler, a 3.2 fWAR player last year and 1.7 fWAR the year before that leaves them still pretty darn competitive. That's not the difference between 88 and 82 wins. If Dexter Fowler doesn't make them competitive, then the big 2 probably doesn't make them competitive either. They'd have a tiny bit of extra work to do in the latter case.

 

And that lower WAR was in the AL with Houston at a younger age.

[SoCalSox]

And that lower WAR was in the AL with Houston at a younger age.

 

His 1.4 fWAR w/ Houston was in 2014. Not very long ago at all, actually.

[BlackSox13]

How much more can the Sox dip into their system at this point, though?

 

That's my biggest concern.

Depends on the outfielder the Sox are interested in. There's a variety to choose from that have different values.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

How much more can the Sox dip into their system at this point, though?

 

That's my biggest concern.

That's where I'm at. Land Cespedes and keep your pick. Then add a RHP starter. If Hahn's feeling froggy maybe even add Desmond.

[bmags]

His 1.4 fWAR w/ Houston was in 2014. Not very long ago at all, actually.

 

I think caulfield is trying to say the 1.4 is probably a better benchmark to look at.

[SoCalSox]

That's where I'm at. Land Cespedes and keep your pick. Then add a RHP starter. If Hahn's feeling froggy maybe even add Desmond.

 

Exactly, they did more than enough within the trade market. Sack up, pay Cespedes & move on to the next move.

[Baron]

I actually like Austin Jackson a little more as a buy low guy right now. His defense was atleast passable.