Y2Jimmy0 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) That could be a reasonable position to take in terms of Gordon, but what if the White Sox have this same standard for Cespedes or Upton? Do you really believe that they do though? I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) How many teams offered Gordon 4 years other than KC? What are the current offers for Cespedes? What are the offers for Upton? What was the Sox best offer for Gordon? If you answered I really don't know to these questions, any whining about the White Sox and how they are NEGOTIATING currently with free agents is premature. You're right, and most of the whining is just us throwing our thoughts out there because there just hasn't been any news...except for the Sox saying (supposedly) that they won't go over three years. Bottom line is, though, that we don't know what offers are out there, and we don't know what the Sox offered Gordon. But it is concerning when the oldest guy of the big three gets a four year deal at $18 million per year, and the Sox are supposedly not going to offer Cespedes more than three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Why are the Sox not willing to go past the rumored 3 year deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) That could be a reasonable position to take in terms of Gordon, but what if the White Sox have this same standard for Cespedes or Upton? They might, they might not. It could be a negotiating tool. Why complain about it until it's actually proven to be a fact? If it turns out to be true, and neither signs for 3 years, then complain. I just don't get the they won't sign anybody theme going on now because one guy is off the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 If no one else has offered Cespedes more than 3 years, why do the White Sox need to be the first to do so? You can always raise your offer. You really can't drop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) How many teams offered Gordon 4 years other than KC? What are the current offers for Cespedes? What are the offers for Upton? What was the Sox best offer for Gordon? If you answered I really don't know to these questions, any whining about the White Sox and how they are NEGOTIATING currently with free agents is premature. Lol. The Royals gave Gordon $91 at five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) Do you really believe that they do though? I don't. Nightengale reported that the White Sox weren't going beyond 3 years for any of these free agents. That seems to be true in regards to Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) How many teams offered Gordon 4 years other than KC? What are the current offers for Cespedes? What are the offers for Upton? What was the Sox best offer for Gordon? If you answered I really don't know to these questions, any whining about the White Sox and how they are NEGOTIATING currently with free agents is premature. +1. Sox aren't going to blow everything else away. Obviously Cespedes and Upton don't have a stack of 5-6 years offers or they would of signed by now. Hahn is trying to take advantage of the market and do the best deal for the team. If the market of those guys progresses to point where Sox need to offer 5-6 years and they don't, then feel free to complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:12 AM) You're right, and most of the whining is just us throwing our thoughts out there because there just hasn't been any news...except for the Sox saying (supposedly) that they won't go over three years. Bottom line is, though, that we don't know what offers are out there, and we don't know what the Sox offered Gordon. But it is concerning when the oldest guy of the big three gets a four year deal at $18 million per year, and the Sox are supposedly not going to offer Cespedes more than three years. The point being that 3 year limit is a media tweet. The same media that said there was virtually no chance Gordon goes back to KC. Things change. Teams throw up a lot of BS when negotiating huge contracts. The Sox were going over $50 million for Abreu but did by almost 40%. It doesn't appear Cespedes would sign for 3 years, but he really doesn't have the relationship Gordon had with KC with any team, and perhaps KC had to go to 4 years with a 5th option because the White Sox stretched out a bit. We really don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) If no one else has offered Cespedes more than 3 years, why do the White Sox need to be the first to do so? You can always raise your offer. You really can't drop it. Because if they are second to the punch they likely won't get Cespedes or Upton? As it was, according to all reports here they were first on Gordon and were outbid three days later. But that second/last chance was for a hometown hero, not "mercenary" free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) Lol. The Royals gave Gordon $91 at five years. This just isn't true. Mutual option means mutual (which basically means team), so you can only factor in the 4 million dollar buyout. The only thing that option can be counted on now is the buyout, which is four million. So the real guaranteed money is approximately 4/76. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:18 AM) Because if they are second to the punch they likely won't get Cespedes or Upton? As it was, according to all reports here they were first on Gordon and were outbid three days later. But that second/last chance was for a hometown hero, not "mercenary" free agent. So they will sign the minute a team offers them the term they want. They wouldn't go around seeing if that could be topped. Got it. As ss2k5 wrote earlier, you can always increase a bid. Lowering it doesn't work so well. How many teams have moaned they would have offered a player more money but they just didn't get an opportunity to make another offer? I'm guessing not too many. Edited January 7, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 11:13 AM) They might, they might not. It could be a negotiating tool. Why complain about it until it's actually proven to be a fact? If it turns out to be true, and neither signs for 3 years, then complain. I just don't get the they won't sign anybody theme going on now because one guy is off the board. Will you please cease and desist with your incessant use of the terms "whining" and "complaining". Nobody's whining or complaining about anything in this discussion, except for perhaps, you. The White Sox put it out there last week that they are only interested in a three year deal or less with these free agents, and now on the heels of Gordon getting a four year deal (at his age), and after Heyward got his eight year deal, there is a concern at this point in time what that three year pronouncement by the Sox might have on the current negotiations with either Cespedes and Upton. That's all - just a concern by some interested fans at this point in time as to what it all means. But you and your knee jerk inclination to immediately start accusing people of whining and complaining, well, that is getting really old and certainly does nothing to constructively contribute to the discourse here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 If Gordon got $18M a year, is this expected to the be 'cheapest' deals of the 3 OF's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:25 AM) If Gordon got $18M a year, is this expected to the be 'cheapest' deals of the 3 OF's? Most likely, but also have to factor in that the KC didn't have to give up a pick, and there are reportedly significant deferrals which lower the present value of the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (spiderman @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:25 AM) If Gordon got $18M a year, is this expected to the be 'cheapest' deals of the 3 OF's? Definitely. When the offseason began, it was Cespedes for six years and $130-150 million, partially because of no lost draft pick. God know what is going on with the Upton market, but if it's a one year deal, it won't be at $18 million, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Most likely, but also have to factor in that the KC didn't have to give up a pick, and there are reportedly significant deferrals which lower the present value of the deal. Right, they're paying almost exactly the same as we pay Melky Cabrera to "patrol" LF for the next two seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmooncreeping Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) Right, they're paying almost exactly the same as we pay Melky Cabrera to "patrol" LF for the next two seasons. I would think Upton on a 1 year deal is around $23 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royoung Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) Right, they're paying almost exactly the same as we pay Melky Cabrera to "patrol" LF for the next two seasons. Not really, Melky got three years at 14M AAV for his age 30, 31, and 32 season. Gordon signed for four years at 19M AAV for his age 32, 33, 34, and 35 seasons. Gordon is much better, but they aren't making close to the same salary and Gordon will be much older when his deal runs out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Most likely, but also have to factor in that the KC didn't have to give up a pick, and there are reportedly significant deferrals which lower the present value of the deal. The "present day value" is a BS tool owners use to try to make a contract look less valuable. Look at interest rates and tell me how deferring $2 million for 2 years, $2 million for 3 years and $4 million for 4 years lowers the actual value of the contract significantly. Besides, that "savings" is apparently being spent elsewhere, therefore not making the Royals anything sitting somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:15 AM) Lol. The Royals gave Gordon $91 at five years. No. The 5th year is a mutual option. They can leave at 4. The 5th is not guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:38 AM) The "present day value" is a BS tool owners use to try to make a contract look less valuable. Look at interest rates and tell me how deferring $2 million for 2 years, $2 million for 3 years and $4 million for 4 years lowers the actual value of the contract significantly. Besides, that "savings" is apparently being spent elsewhere, therefore not making the Royals anything sitting somewhere. Simple economics. $1 today is worth more than $1 in a year. Not that complex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:44 AM) Simple economics. $1 today is worth more than $1 in a year. Not that complex. At current interest rates about $1.0025 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:44 AM) Simple economics. $1 today is worth more than $1 in a year. Not that complex. Yes, but these days it $1.01 in a year, and if the Royals are spending that money elsewhere, while it will be less for Gordon overall, but not millions, it will probably wind up costing them more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:43 AM) No. The 5th year is a mutual option. They can leave at 4. The 5th is not guaranteed. But, due to the fact he did agree to come back, there's at least a 50% chance they exercise it as long as he's still productive. The likelihood of that happening in KC is much higher than with any other team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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