White Sox interested in SS Ian Desmond

[caulfield12]

Now you're confusing me with Thad Bosley's humor...I don't recall ever mentioning the White Sox being broke when that's vurtually impossible due to all their lease guarantees/subsidies.

 

If they were broke, by the way, there would have been no point to starting this very thread about Desmond and Austin Jackson almost two months ago.

Edited February 15, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dunt]

$120 million is a lot of f***ing money.

 

Not in the MLB it's not. You're getting outspent by the Kansas City Royals.

[Dick Allen]

Now you're confusing me with Thad Bosley's humor...I don't recall ever mentioning the White Sox being broke when that's vurtually impossible due to all their lease guarantees/subsidies.

 

If they were broke, by the way, there would have been no point to starting this very thread about Desmond and Austin Jackson almost two months ago.

You have said the payroll was maxed. You even said there was no way thy didn't lose money last year. You make so many statements about the White Sox basically being hopeless you can't even remember what you wrote. And when does a thread topic matter to you? Besides, you made the Desmond thread when it appeared the White Sox were going to sign Cespedes, just like you made your Royals thread where YOU wrote you don't overpay for free agents or give them more than 3 years even if they are your own, when it appear the Royals were out on Gordon and the White Sox were the front runners. Those are just facts. The White Sox could trade for Trout and Harper and you would find something wrong.

 

I am just shocked you haven't praised Hahn for signing Latos for $3 million after you said they should give him $10-12 million.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[hogan873]

They are also just spending a combined $18 million on the front four of their rotation who all have either #1 or #2 starter potential and just $2.75 million on their starting center fielder and lead off hitter whose been a 3.3 average fWAR player over his Sox career. They may have a couple bad contracts on the books but they have way more plus value contracts than they do bad ones. The Sox have made a lot of really good deals over the past few years so I'll let a couple bad contracts slide. If they hadn't have been proactive and signed Sale to an extension early on like they did this would be his last year in a Sox uniform and he would be making double the money he's making this year.

Oh, you're correct. They do have some guys signed for less than they are worth including Sale, Quintana, Eaton, and Abreu. And some of the other guys could end up being bargains, too. My point was that the 2-3 bad contracts are tying up a good chunk of the $120 million that is being talked about. If the Sox do have a number they won't go over (and there probably is one, but it's not $120 million or even a little more than that), those bad contracts would hinder their ability to spend on the guys they need. The discussion (argument) has been that the Sox won't spend because they are stuck on a number...$120 million. That's not true. They haven't signed Fowler, Desmond, etc. yet because there's not a match. The Sox are willing to the right amount of money on the right guy. They were willing to spend a certain amount for Cespedes or Gordon, but they are willing to spend less on these other guys. Some of that reasoning is driven by what they have allocated so far, but not all of it.

 

 

[caulfield12]

You have said the payroll was maxed. You even said there was no way thy didn't lose money last year. You make so many statements about the White Sox basically being hopeless you can't even remember what you wrote. And when does a thread topic matter to you?

 

Whether they lost money two years out of the last 15 shouldn't doom the franchise.

 

Btw, Apple hasn't given up selling cell phones after having a bad quarter. They figure out the problem and solve it. That's the beauty of the free enterprise system.

[Dick Allen]

Oh, you're correct. They do have some guys signed for less than they are worth including Sale, Quintana, Eaton, and Abreu. And some of the other guys could end up being bargains, too. My point was that the 2-3 bad contracts are tying up a good chunk of the $120 million that is being talked about. If the Sox do have a number they won't go over (and there probably is one, but it's not $120 million or even a little more than that), those bad contracts would hinder their ability to spend on the guys they need. The discussion (argument) has been that the Sox won't spend because they are stuck on a number...$120 million. That's not true. They haven't signed Fowler, Desmond, etc. yet because there's not a match. The Sox are willing to the right amount of money on the right guy. They were willing to spend a certain amount for Cespedes or Gordon, but they are willing to spend less on these other guys. Some of that reasoning is driven by what they have allocated so far, but not all of it.

What is strange to me is although there is a lot of talk about the QO being a hinderence in a Desmond or Fowler signing, there hasn't been one report I have seen giving any indication of their demands. SD chose Alexei over Desmond. It was for peanuts. I would imagine the Sox wouldn't have let Alexei walk for $3 million unless they are allocating those funds elsewhere, and I don't think Latos for $3 million was a reality back then.

[caulfield12]

You have said the payroll was maxed. You even said there was no way thy didn't lose money last year. You make so many statements about the White Sox basically being hopeless you can't even remember what you wrote. And when does a thread topic matter to you? Besides, you made the Desmond thread when it appeared the White Sox were going to sign Cespedes, just like you made your Royals thread where YOU wrote you don't overpay for free agents or give them more than 3 years even if they are your own, when it appear the Royals were out on Gordon and the White Sox were the front runners. Those are just facts. The White Sox could trade for Trout and Harper and you would find something wrong.

 

I am just shocked you haven't praised Hahn for signing Latos for $3 million after you said they should give him $10-12 million.

 

I didn't say they should give him that money. Just that he was at one point expected to get $7-10 million and possibly more.

 

That said, nobody has any idea about his affect on the clubhouse yet, so it's a bit early to celebrate like some prematurely did on the Paulino deal.

 

Hindrance, btw.

Edited February 15, 2016 by caulfield12

[Princess Dye]

News: Please happen soon. I beg of you

[Dick Allen]

I didn't say they should give him that money. Just that he was at one point expected to get $7-10 million and possibly more.

 

That said, nobody has any idea about his affect on the clubhouse yet, so it's a bit early to celebrate like some prematurely did on the Paulino deal.

 

Hindrance, btw.

Oh really.

 

 

Latos for $10-12 million (one year)

Parra for $8-10 million (one year)

add Desmond in June for 4 months....$10 million

 

Wouldn't that be much more of an impact because...?

 

1) You're only spending roughly $5 million than on Cespedes

2) You now have credible insurance for injury/non-performance pitching-wise

3) You can get a pick if Latos does really well and/or trade him in June/July

4) Players would have more motivation to perform for bigger FA payoffs in 2017

5) You also have insurance for Saladino...not to mention PR, outfielder (potentially) or DH in the case of LaRoche or Avi flop

6) You don't have to worry about huge financial commitments with back end of Big 3 guys blowing up in your face and blocking efforts to reload/retool like Dunn/LaRoche/Danks deals have effectively done

7) Injury risk is spread across three players rather than just one

 

I wonder why you didn't have these Latos concerns when you thought it would be a good idea to give him 4 times the amount Hahn got him to sign.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[oldsox]

Oh, you're correct. They do have some guys signed for less than they are worth including Sale, Quintana, Eaton, and Abreu. And some of the other guys could end up being bargains, too. My point was that the 2-3 bad contracts are tying up a good chunk of the $120 million that is being talked about. If the Sox do have a number they won't go over (and there probably is one, but it's not $120 million or even a little more than that), those bad contracts would hinder their ability to spend on the guys they need. The discussion (argument) has been that the Sox won't spend because they are stuck on a number...$120 million. That's not true. They haven't signed Fowler, Desmond, etc. yet because there's not a match. The Sox are willing to the right amount of money on the right guy. They were willing to spend a certain amount for Cespedes or Gordon, but they are willing to spend less on these other guys. Some of that reasoning is driven by what they have allocated so far, but not all of it.

I agree. Desmond and Fowler have one thing in common: They both should have taken their qualifying offers. Big mistakes. Now they are looking for some team to step in and make up for their agents's mistakes. Enter the White Sox.

 

In the case of Desmond, Saladino is currently ticketed for SS. If Desmond comes in, he gets that gig, so whatever price the Sox pay (including loss of pick), that price has to justify the difference between the two players at short. The value is not there.

 

Fowler is little more difficult to assess, because he is an outfielder who can play all three positions. But still, he is probably not worth the price. Desmond should be an easy decision: No. Fowler, not so easy.

[caulfield12]

Oh really.

 

 

Latos for $10-12 million (one year)

Parra for $8-10 million (one year)

add Desmond in June for 4 months....$10 million

 

Wouldn't that be much more of an impact because...?

 

1) You're only spending roughly $5 million than on Cespedes

2) You now have credible insurance for injury/non-performance pitching-wise

3) You can get a pick if Latos does really well and/or trade him in June/July

4) Players would have more motivation to perform for bigger FA payoffs in 2017

5) You also have insurance for Saladino...not to mention PR, outfielder (potentially) or DH in the case of LaRoche or Avi flop

6) You don't have to worry about huge financial commitments with back end of Big 3 guys blowing up in your face and blocking efforts to reload/retool like Dunn/LaRoche/Danks deals have effectively done

7) Injury risk is spread across three players rather than just one

 

Unfortunately I don't have access to the same inside information the other GM's have on Latos.

 

On paper, without considering his personality issues, he should be receiving offers of $8-12 million based solely on his more than reasonable statistical projections.

 

Btw, Parra received three years and $27.5 million, so that projection was dead on.

Edited February 15, 2016 by caulfield12

[SCCWS]

I agree. Desmond and Fowler have one thing in common: They both should have taken their qualifying offers. Big mistakes. Now they are looking for some team to step in and make up for their agents's mistakes. Enter the White Sox.

 

In the case of Desmond, Saladino is currently ticketed for SS. If Desmond comes in, he gets that gig, so whatever price the Sox pay (including loss of pick), that price has to justify the difference between the two players at short. The value is not there.

 

Fowler is little more difficult to assess, because he is an outfielder who can play all three positions. But still, he is probably not worth the price. Desmond should be an easy decision: No. Fowler, not so easy.

 

I agree with all you say. But I wonder how much the "Cubs" will affect the final decisions made on the roster. The White Sox need to find a way to gather attention in a market that will be all over the Cubs this year. They need to stay in the race for a playoff spot. So maybe the final decisions on guys like Desmond or Fowler may not be as much on value as perception and a chance to stay in contention.

 

[caulfield12]

I agree. Desmond and Fowler have one thing in common: They both should have taken their qualifying offers. Big mistakes. Now they are looking for some team to step in and make up for their agents's mistakes. Enter the White Sox.

 

In the case of Desmond, Saladino is currently ticketed for SS. If Desmond comes in, he gets that gig, so whatever price the Sox pay (including loss of pick), that price has to justify the difference between the two players at short. The value is not there.

 

Fowler is little more difficult to assess, because he is an outfielder who can play all three positions. But still, he is probably not worth the price. Desmond should be an easy decision: No. Fowler, not so easy.

 

You realize some projections have him as the second best SS in baseball in 2016...?

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Unfortunately I don't have access to the same inside information the other GM's have on Latos.

 

On paper, without considering his personality issues, he should be receiving offers of $8-12 million based solely on his more than reasonable statistical projections.

Again, you wanted Hahn to give him $10-12 million. He signed him for $3 million. Why no praise? Doesn't it still accomplish the things you said it would accomplish on the pitching end?

 

Not having the same inside information hasn't kept you from telling us how every move the White Sox make is wrong.

[caulfield12]

Again, you wanted Hahn to give him $10-12 million. He signed him for $3 million. Why no praise? Doesn't it still accomplish the things you said it would accomplish on the pitching end?

 

Not having the same inside information hasn't kept you from telling us how every move the White Sox make is wrong.

 

For that price, it's still a good move in all likelihood...but it's troublesome that there were few takers.

 

Supposedly one team was willing to give him a deal where he could earn $9 million with incentives, which also isn't far off the projection.

 

 

Hahn has been a below average GM so far (let's just say between 16-23)...with the caveat being we don't know all the other possibilities that were taken off the table by JR other than Samardzija and Tanaka.

 

If you can make the case he's an excellent GM, have at it.

 

I will, however, praise him for not signing Ubaldo Jimenez, bringing back Beckham a third time or extending Danks.

Edited February 15, 2016 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

For that price, it's still a good move in all likelihood...but it's troublesome that there were few takers.

 

Supposedly one team was willing to give him a deal where he could earn $9 million with incentives, which also isn't far off the projection.

 

 

Hahn has been a below average GM so far...with the caveat being we don't know all the other possibilities that were taken off the table by JR other than Samardzija and Tanaka.

 

If you can make the case he's an excellent GM, have at it.

Then why do you want them to sign Desmond? There are so few takers. In fact in your original post where you forgot about wanting Latos for so much more money, you said sign Desmond in June. That would mean he had zero takers. Once again you can't make your constant negativity make any sense. Hahn did what you wanted only a lot cheaper and you still find fault, would you rather give Latos $3 million or Ian Kennedy $70 million?

Edited February 15, 2016 by Dick Allen

[LDF]

Neither WS team had a $120 million payroll last season. In fact, both started last season below the White Sox. The Sox have had some much better than average team payrolls the last 5 or 6 years. And while I agree, the model to go into a season short hoping to add, is one this franchise has played out, cheap is not been what this team has been, especially if you consider thing like attendance.

 

 

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

 

 

What wins games is talent, not how much you are paying him. If Sale were paid market rate, and Quintana for that matter, payroll wouldn't even be discussed.

 

ref 2nd bold, well no offense, but that is not the point. the point is with bold ref 1. the sox system did not have what many may consider a mlb team or a team that was lacking in viable talent on the major lever and in the minors.

 

they needed to invest to get Fa, to rebuild the infrastructure. to where the minor league team can support the main team. they need to go all in, in order to at least try to compete for a playoff spot.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

News: Please happen soon. I beg of you

 

Seriously.

[LDF]

I can see your point, but you have to look deeper and see what the $120 million is being spent on. There's $29 million of that money being spent on a guy that hit .207 last season and a pitcher who is not the guy he used to be. And one could also argue that there's another $14 million being spent on a left fielder that is under-performing. There are teams out there who have a lower payroll than the Sox, but they're better because they have the money spent on the right players. Increasing the payroll to show the fans that they're serious isn't the answer. Spending the money on the right guys is the answer. And I bet that is part of why we're seeing the Sox take their time. Look at the Latos deal. Back when Fister was signed, speculation was that Latos would get at least what Fister got. But the Sox were patient and got him for the kind of money that at worst is a win/whatever situation.

 

The fans are not buying tickets because the payroll is "only" $120 million. They're not buying tickets because the product on the field has been lackluster.

 

within the scope of your counter i can see what you are saying, i may not totally agree, but i can respect it.

 

my only counter was that the sox FO screwed the pooch in their idea of putting a competitive on the field, now they have to fix that mistake and continue to invest, while the window of opportunity is there. those bad contracts will come off the books, but in order to say they will not fix it while at the same try to convince the fans that the team is good enuf>>>>> who is fooling who.

[southsider2k5]

$120 million is a lot of f***ing money.

 

Especially when you are in the bottom third of baseball for total revenue.

[LDF]

How come in your Royals manifesto you said the Royals didn't pick up salary with Zobrist and Cueto? If they didn't pick it up, how is their payroll increased? Not picking up money doesn't equal payroll flexibility.

 

Also, the White Sox did make a run at Cespedes at the deadline.

 

i am not getting nto the kcr or not discussion.

 

all i would say is, the team who wins the WS needs to keep the team fresh. move players invest in other players. this is the best way to keep a team from getting stagnant.

[southsider2k5]

Not in the MLB it's not. You're getting outspent by the Kansas City Royals.

 

KC also outearned the White Sox based on the 2014, and for sure will again on the 2015 season.

 

[southsider2k5]

Whether they lost money two years out of the last 15 shouldn't doom the franchise.

 

Btw, Apple hasn't given up selling cell phones after having a bad quarter. They figure out the problem and solve it. That's the beauty of the free enterprise system.

 

And the problem usually involves cost cutting.

[LDF]

You have said the payroll was maxed. You even said there was no way thy didn't lose money last year. You make so many statements about the White Sox basically being hopeless you can't even remember what you wrote. And when does a thread topic matter to you? Besides, you made the Desmond thread when it appeared the White Sox were going to sign Cespedes, just like you made your Royals thread where YOU wrote you don't overpay for free agents or give them more than 3 years even if they are your own, when it appear the Royals were out on Gordon and the White Sox were the front runners. Those are just facts. The White Sox could trade for Trout and Harper and you would find something wrong.

 

I am just shocked you haven't praised Hahn for signing Latos for $3 million after you said they should give him $10-12 million.

 

again, i am not going to key on anything else except the bold.

 

we, the fans really do not know what the term max is when it is coming from the sox FO. it can carry many meanings.

[southsider2k5]

again, i am not going to key on anything else except the bold.

 

we, the fans really do not know what the term max is when it is coming from the sox FO. it can carry many meanings.

 

So how can you call what the Sox spend a "token" amount if you self-admittedly don't know what they have to spend?