2017-18 official NBA discussion thread

[bmags]

A lot of the bad management in the NBA has been replaced by good management and the bulls have not improved.

 

I can think of maybe two front offices that are worse than gar forman led bulls:

- probably whomever takes knicks job

- magic

 

 

[Brian]

Chris Paul wasn't coming to Chicago though. He's going to Houston for a year and then will be a free agent again. With LeBron.

 

Where? Lebron is going to boot Kyrie for an older CPaul?

[LittleHurt05]

So the Cavs had a deal in place to trade Kyrie to the Suns for Bledsoe and the 4th pick, and then they were going to trade the 4th pick for George. All of that was in place but the Cavs wanted a long term commitment from Lebron and they couldn't get one.

 

Sounds like Lebron is as good as gone after next season.

 

That was a given once he finally brought CLE the title. I don't know how many years he has left in him, but he could see him playing musical chairs and signing 1-2 year deals and switching between cities.

[southsider2k5]

I will say right now...I would have rather kept Butler and traded for CP3...then taken a run at LBJ next off-season. Probably a pipe dream, but It would have been my strategy. That said, I didn't expect Chris Paul to be that much in play.

 

CP3 never indicated he wanted to come here. Harden convinced him to take a deal to come to Houston, and exercise an option to do so. He had been planning on declining it and going into free agency for a payday.

[Chisoxfn]

I don't think he will. He can make the same amount in LA next year that he could make in Cleveland or Boston. Why would he commit to staying anywhere when he wants to be in LA?

Very simple...he wants to win and winning is contagious. It isn't like Boston is some dump. I would be shocked if he doesn't end up in Boston and when he does...he's going to resign. That will be part of any deal.

[Chisoxfn]

A lot of the bad management in the NBA has been replaced by good management and the bulls have not improved.

 

I can think of maybe two front offices that are worse than gar forman led bulls:

- probably whomever takes knicks job

- magic

Doc Rivers is the worst GM in the league, so you are missing the Clippers. And I disagree with you completely...most GM's in this league wish they could have the track record that John Paxson has had over his career. When his time comes (and I am perfectly fine moving him), people will look back long-term at John Paxson as being a good GM. Even Gar...as much as I don't like the run-ins with the front office and the fact that he is slimy...our historical drafting has been pretty good.

 

2016's draft got us two potential role players. Valentine & Zipser. Not saying either are great players or even starters in this league...but given where we picked, as of today, that is solid value. Additionally, 2015's 1st round pick (Bobby Portis) while inconsistent looks like a guy who can play in the NBA. Again, not a starter, but a solid role player. The Bulls heavily relied on young players (more so then all but a couple teams in the league) and they were the only team who actually won games.

 

When people say they don't trust this front office or a rebuild...I would say I don't trust this front office (cause Gar is just a slimy dude) but their history of drafting has been very good (and that is over a long-term period). Yes, we had some years with misses, but from a relative value perspective, the last two years provided us with three guys, who at this point, appear poised to be role players (and given where we were picking...that is solid relative value). Who knows what can happen, but lets not act like we've been some horrible drafting team...the Bulls haven't. Anyone who says they have are delusional and has no perspective on how likely draft picks are to flop, etc.

 

I hate defending this front office, but some of these statements are just so ridiculous and ignorant of a long-term track record that was pretty good. Everyone thinks its easy to win championships but it isn't, especially in the NBA, and the best front office people may not ever win one because somewhere in the equation...luck can be involved.

[Steve9347]

Chris Paul wasn't coming to Chicago though. He's going to Houston for a year and then will be a free agent again. With LeBron.

...and Wade... and Melo.

 

Banana Boat crew in New York next year. Book it.

[southsider2k5]

...and Wade... and Melo.

 

Banana Boat crew in New York next year. Book it.

 

Man that crew would be a huge disaster in this day and age.

[bmags]

Doc Rivers is the worst GM in the league, so you are missing the Clippers. And I disagree with you completely...most GM's in this league wish they could have the track record that John Paxson has had over his career. When his time comes (and I am perfectly fine moving him), people will look back long-term at John Paxson as being a good GM. Even Gar...as much as I don't like the run-ins with the front office and the fact that he is slimy...our historical drafting has been pretty good.

 

2016's draft got us two potential role players. Valentine & Zipser. Not saying either are great players or even starters in this league...but given where we picked, as of today, that is solid value. Additionally, 2015's 1st round pick (Bobby Portis) while inconsistent looks like a guy who can play in the NBA. Again, not a starter, but a solid role player. The Bulls heavily relied on young players (more so then all but a couple teams in the league) and they were the only team who actually won games.

 

When people say they don't trust this front office or a rebuild...I would say I don't trust this front office (cause Gar is just a slimy dude) but their history of drafting has been very good (and that is over a long-term period). Yes, we had some years with misses, but from a relative value perspective, the last two years provided us with three guys, who at this point, appear poised to be role players (and given where we were picking...that is solid relative value). Who knows what can happen, but lets not act like we've been some horrible drafting team...the Bulls haven't. Anyone who says they have are delusional and has no perspective on how likely draft picks are to flop, etc.

 

I hate defending this front office, but some of these statements are just so ridiculous and ignorant of a long-term track record that was pretty good. Everyone thinks its easy to win championships but it isn't, especially in the NBA, and the best front office people may not ever win one because somewhere in the equation...luck can be involved.

 

Joe Dumars put together an improbably dominant team in Detroit before completely hamstringing it with terrible trades and signings. He was a fantastic and truly terrible GM in one tenure.

 

Paxson was a good and then terrible executive in his tenure, and a fine record 5 years ago isn't enough to keep your job after the horrendous execution following 2011.

 

The bulls front office has:

- punched out a coach

- Fired a coach for criticizing behind closed doors

- Undermined a coach publicly for a year before firing him and encouraging players to trash him to the media

- Hired an inexperienced coach from college

- Publicly undermined that coach

- Overseen a medical staff that has very nearly killed a player, cleared one to play with a broken leg, and oversaw a chronically injured team. Was never fired, eventually left on their own. Fired Jen Swanson after a year though, guess she didn't get on the loyalty train.

- Traded 2 first round picks to move into the 11th spot to draft a one dimensional college 3 point shooter who couldn't rebound or steal in college. He was terrible. The two picks were much better.

- Drafted Marquis Teague

- Drafted Tony Snell

- Drafted Denzel Valentine

- Overvalued Niko Mirotic, he'll leave for nothing

- Signed Rajon Rondo. He was exactly what you thought Rondo would be, except he also turned out to be improbably the most decent human being in the org. So I'm not going to talk too much crap on him.

- Signed Dwyane Wade

- Thought a team of Butler Wade and Rondo was really good (they were bad)

- Refused to go over luxury tax after 2011 losing Korver and Asik for nothing. It all ended up okay though because they signed rip hamilton.

- Continue to pay rip hamilton for the rest of time

- Let DJ Augustin and Nate Robinson go but made sure that Kirk Hinrich would live forever

- Refused to include Taj Gibson for anything, waited until he was least valuable, then traded him and Doug McDermott for 3 players with negative PER

- Demanded coach play them

- They were terrible

- Coach got team to playoffs by benching them

 

They have been terrible managing the team they put together for 5 years, culminating in trading their best asset for a rebuild and not acquiring future assets.

 

It's cool he used the assets he inherited from Krause to get draft picks that created the 2011 team. But he's been terrible since, he's run a drama-filled embarrassment of an org culture.

[bmags]

Man that crew would be a huge disaster in this day and age.

 

They'd have lebron so they'd be in the finals.

[ZoomSlowik]

The Bulls front office has been bad for a while. The 1.whatever percent miracle for Rose hid that. Without Rose falling in their lap, they're the Charlotte Bobcats.They routinely turn players and assets into nothing. They hit on one great late round pick and another solid one, but that's the bulk of their resume. Phil was a complete disaster, but even he managed to get Porzingis.

 

Edit- Yes, I know they're the Hornets now.

 

Also, Noah was a solid pick. Gordon and Deng were slightly above average picks.

Edited June 29, 2017 by ZoomSlowik

[Chisoxfn]

Man that crew would be a huge disaster in this day and age.

LBJ, Chris Paul, Wade, and Melo on a team is not a disaster, imo. Yes, they would be old, but LBJ is still the man and Chris Paul and Melo would provide nice spacing. Wade clearly would be on the bench. I think if those 4 went anywhere, that team would be a title contender (not long-term, but definitely in the short-term).

[bmags]

To be honest, it's not the scouting or conservative approach to assets, the number one sin of this front office to me is the treatment of coaches, from del negro, to adams, to thibs, to now Hoiberg.

 

Thibs got a lot of leeway with his players because he never threw them under the bus.

 

Forman/Paxson get zero leeway because they throw everyone else under the bus and then make token gestures to accountability.

 

It's what I'm tired of most. I don't even like Hoiberg, but don't hang him out to dry in the media when you gave him 2 bizarre rosters in a row that had nothing to do with his style.

[Jenksismyhero]

The Bulls front office has been bad for a while. The 1.whatever percent miracle for Rose hid that. Without Rose falling in their lap, they're the Charlotte Bobcats.They routinely turn players and assets into nothing. They hit on one great late round pick and another solid one, but that's the bulk of their resume. Phil was a complete disaster, but even he managed to get Porzingis.

 

Edit- Yes, I know they're the Hornets now.

 

Also, Noah was a solid pick. Gordon and Deng were slightly above average picks.

 

I think Snell was a solid pick (he's an NBA starter at pick #20), and I would still defend the decision to trade up for McDermott (they needed a shooter badly and got the best one in the draft). Some moves don't pan out, obviously that was one of them.

 

To me their biggest sin was not tanking when Rose missed the entire 2011 (or 12?) season. They should have directed Thibs, Noah and Deng to take it easy. If they didn't want to go along with that, get rid of them. It was a terrible decision to not take advantage of that lost year like the Spurs did with Duncan and Robinson.

[ZoomSlowik]

I think Snell was a solid pick (he's an NBA starter at pick #20), and I would still defend the decision to trade up for McDermott (they needed a shooter badly and got the best one in the draft). Some moves don't pan out, obviously that was one of them.

 

To me their biggest sin was not tanking when Rose missed the entire 2011 (or 12?) season. They should have directed Thibs, Noah and Deng to take it easy. If they didn't want to go along with that, get rid of them. It was a terrible decision to not take advantage of that lost year like the Spurs did with Duncan and Robinson.

Snell is a below average NBA player that they traded for MCW. He made some 3's this year, but his PER was still under 10. Not exactly a sparkling asset, and he wasn't their worst.

 

They do a lot of things wrong. Bmags listed most of them, but the biggest is that they hang on to players until they walk with no return or get traded for pennies on the dollar. They basically ended up with just cash for Luol Deng. That's insane.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Where? Lebron is going to boot Kyrie for an older CPaul?

 

 

I just meant that they'd both be free agents

[Y2Jimmy0]

Very simple...he wants to win and winning is contagious. It isn't like Boston is some dump. I would be shocked if he doesn't end up in Boston and when he does...he's going to resign. That will be part of any deal.

 

 

I disagree that this matters as much as you think. I'd be stunned if he doesn't get himself to LA

[Steve9347]

Jusuf Nurkic and Gary Harris for Doug McDermott

 

That's it. Job's lost there. Shoulda been.

 

Keep on cycling the turds. I'm sure Lavine will put up 20ppg in the 18/19 season and GarPax will claim victory while we ride to a 12 pick and live in NBA hell.

 

We need to tank harder than ever and get the top pick this year.

 

We won't.

 

F*ck this team.

[Chisoxfn]

I disagree that this matters as much as you think. I'd be stunned if he doesn't get himself to LA

All I can say is that out here, some of the biggest Laker media homers are of the opinion that George is essentially a dead option unless the Lakers trade for him. The only upside they have is if ultimately Indiana holds onto him or deals him to Cleveland (as that is the one destination I don't see him signing LT as that will be dependent on LBJ).

[southsider2k5]

Sun-Times Sports‏ @suntimes_sports 16m16 minutes ago

 

BREAKING: Source: Bulls GM Gar Forman 'flat-out lied' to Jimmy Butler

 

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/jimmy-b...ot-my-back/amp/ …

[bmags]

Man I'd be surprised if Lebron left, even though there is plenty of smoke.

[Chisoxfn]

Sun-Times Sports‏ @suntimes_sports 16m16 minutes ago

 

BREAKING: Source: Bulls GM Gar Forman 'flat-out lied' to Jimmy Butler

 

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/jimmy-b...ot-my-back/amp/ …

None of that shocks me. Gar is a snake.

[ZoomSlowik]

I do wonder if things have gone to s*** because Gar gradually got more power. They used to draft decently and while they were conservative, they didn't actively hurt the team. The last few years have been a complete tire fire though.

 

I have a terrible feeling that they're going to find a way to trade for Melo now that Phil is gone.

[Soxbadger]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-pacers-...-175626774.html

 

Supposedly Pacers want Nets Pick + Lakers Pick + More for George.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

I do wonder if things have gone to s*** because Gar gradually got more power. They used to draft decently and while they were conservative, they didn't actively hurt the team. The last few years have been a complete tire fire though.

 

I have a terrible feeling that they're going to find a way to trade for Melo now that Phil is gone.

 

It seemed(to me at least) that the asset misevaluation started with messing up Asiks RFA status and getting nothing for him when he was clearly coming into his own. From that point forward it just snowballed