poppysox Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said: It’s ultimately a business. Players are doing what is best for their lives, families, careers, etc. Obviously MLB players are getting paid at a much higher scale than the average 9-5 employee but have you ever applied to a better paying job while already employed at a different company? Have you ever accepted this better opportunity and turned down your current company’s counteroffer because the new job was a better fit for you due to the money, proximity to home, less travel, better chance of moving up, etc.? If so, you are being a hypocrite. I think your perspective is a bit ridiculous. Also, are you going to start disliking Moncada and/or Giolito if they don’t accept a contract extension from the Sox? Let’s be honest here, the Sox aren’t offering these young players long-term extensions because they want to do the players a favor. The Sox are looking at these extensions as team friendly deals that will likely save them a lot of money over the long run. Hahn and the Sox are being self-serving with these deals. I keep seeing you say you expect the Sox to extend Madrigal before the season starts so he makes the opening day roster. Many posters have disagreed with you reasoning that he is not a sure-fire prospect like Luis Robert that a team would be wise to throw a bunch of money at until they can see how his game plays in the majors. This could definitely be the case and it is more than likely that Hahn and the Sox are being self-serving like I said. You touch on many valid points and areas where fans can differ: 1) I am not saying a player can't fulfill his contract...file for free agency...and leave. I am stating that it is unwise to announce from the beginning that you intend to wait for free agency and go to the highest bidder. Doesn't make him sound like a team first kind of guy. 2) Secondly, if Moncada and or Giolito don't want to accept an extension...that's fine. I hope RH trades them with two years left on their contracts so we get the major haul be are entitled to in return. Don't pull a Baltimore and have your star walk out the door with nothing. 3) Your notion that the Sox are being self serving is half true of course. Both parties are looking out for themselves. Teams want to save money and players want financial security in case of injury or are less success than they hope for. 4 ) The same posters who disagree with me about my hope that Madrigal is extended...disagreed with me when I indicated Robert should be approached with an extension. Those people said Robert already had his payday so wouldn't be lured by dollar signs. You were probably one of those posters. In any event...quite a few posters told me how ridiculous my thought of Robert signing an extension was. Not one of them has come forward to say they were wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, poppysox said: You touch on many valid points and areas where fans can differ: 1) I am not saying a player can't fulfill his contract...file for free agency...and leave. I am stating that it is unwise to announce from the beginning that you intend to wait for free agency and go to the highest bidder. Doesn't make him sound like a team first kind of guy. 2) Secondly, if Moncada and or Giolito don't want to accept an extension...that's fine. I hope RH trades them with two years left on their contracts so we get the major haul be are entitled to in return. Don't pull a Baltimore and have your star walk out the door with nothing. 3) Your notion that the Sox are being self serving is half true of course. Both parties are looking out for themselves. Teams want to save money and players want financial security in case of injury or are less success than they hope for. 4 ) The same posters who disagree with me about my hope that Madrigal is extended...disagreed with me when I indicated Robert should be approached with an extension. Those people said Robert already had his payday so wouldn't be lured by dollar signs. You were probably one of those posters. In any event...quite a few posters told me how ridiculous my thought of Robert signing an extension was. Not one of them has come forward to say they were wrong. I was wrong, they found a smart way to make it work. Deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, poppysox said: You touch on many valid points and areas where fans can differ: 1) I am not saying a player can't fulfill his contract...file for free agency...and leave. I am stating that it is unwise to announce from the beginning that you intend to wait for free agency and go to the highest bidder. Doesn't make him sound like a team first kind of guy. 2) Secondly, if Moncada and or Giolito don't want to accept an extension...that's fine. I hope RH trades them with two years left on their contracts so we get the major haul be are entitled to in return. Don't pull a Baltimore and have your star walk out the door with nothing. 3) Your notion that the Sox are being self serving is half true of course. Both parties are looking out for themselves. Teams want to save money and players want financial security in case of injury or are less success than they hope for. 4 ) The same posters who disagree with me about my hope that Madrigal is extended...disagreed with me when I indicated Robert should be approached with an extension. Those people said Robert already had his payday so wouldn't be lured by dollar signs. You were probably one of those posters. In any event...quite a few posters told me how ridiculous my thought of Robert signing an extension was. Not one of them has come forward to say they were wrong. Uhhh which star are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said: Uhhh which star are you referring to? Machado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I was wrong, they found a smart way to make it work. Deal? I haven't forgotten you wanting me off the Madrigal bandwagon either.😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, poppysox said: I haven't forgotten you wanting me off the Madrigal bandwagon either.😀 I haven't forgotten you saying you'd be frustrated if the payroll was less than $160 million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Nick Madrigal struck out 16 times last year in 532 plate appearances. Yolmer struck out 117 times in 555 plate appearances. If Yolmer had struck out as few times as Madrigal, with no additional extra base hits out of those 30+ extra hits, he would have hit .280, with a .350 OBP and a near .700 OPS. That would have made him a darn near average hitter and, with good defense, a valuable player. Ok, I should say it wouldn't surprise me if he struggled to put up a .650 OPS and leave Yolmer out of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: I haven't forgotten you saying you'd be frustrated if the payroll was less than $160 million I am a bit surprised but have not totally given up on that opinion. He certainly gave it a good shot this offseason. Might take a little longer than I had hoped. I think JR proved he isn't cheap which is the primary point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, poppysox said: I am a bit surprised but have not totally given up on that opinion. He certainly gave it a good shot this offseason. Might take a little longer than I had hoped. I think JR proved he isn't cheap which is the primary point. And yet you just suggested trading Moncada and Giolito next offseason, which would be the definition of cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: And yet you just suggested trading Moncada and Giolito next offseason, which would be the definition of cheap. I said trade them with 2 years left on their contracts so you maximize return. To be clear...I want RH to be generous with an extension offer to each of the players mentioned and have them in the fold for the next 13 years or whatever. Trout signed a huge extension (470 + million) and could have gotten more in free agency. I think player and team did the right thing by their fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, poppysox said: I said trade them with 2 years left on their contracts so you maximize return. To be clear...I want RH to be generous with an extension offer to each of the players mentioned and have them in the fold for the next 13 years or whatever. Trout signed a huge extension (470 + million) and could have gotten more in free agency. I think player and team did the right thing by their fans. They have 3 years left right now. 2 years left is literally next offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 19 minutes ago, poppysox said: 2) Secondly, if Moncada and or Giolito don't want to accept an extension...that's fine. I hope RH trades them with two years left on their contracts so we get the major haul be are entitled to in return. Don't pull a Baltimore and have your star walk out the door with nothing. So 2022 rolls around and you're looking at two years of legit World Series contention, you trade a couple of your best players for prospects? I'd rather just let them walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: They have 3 years left right now. 2 years left is literally next offseason. Moncada's not eligibile for free agency until 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, PantsRowland said: Moncada's not eligibile for free agency until 2024. SOB you're right. I should not do this while asking NASA for $800k in another window. My apologies I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, poppysox said: You touch on many valid points and areas where fans can differ: 1) I am not saying a player can't fulfill his contract...file for free agency...and leave. I am stating that it is unwise to announce from the beginning that you intend to wait for free agency and go to the highest bidder. Doesn't make him sound like a team first kind of guy. 2) Secondly, if Moncada and or Giolito don't want to accept an extension...that's fine. I hope RH trades them with two years left on their contracts so we get the major haul be are entitled to in return. Don't pull a Baltimore and have your star walk out the door with nothing. 3) Your notion that the Sox are being self serving is half true of course. Both parties are looking out for themselves. Teams want to save money and players want financial security in case of injury or are less success than they hope for. 4 ) The same posters who disagree with me about my hope that Madrigal is extended...disagreed with me when I indicated Robert should be approached with an extension. Those people said Robert already had his payday so wouldn't be lured by dollar signs. You were probably one of those posters. In any event...quite a few posters told me how ridiculous my thought of Robert signing an extension was. Not one of them has come forward to say they were wrong. 1. Did Kris Bryant or his agent Boras ever officially announce from the beginning that they intended to wait for free agency and go to the highest bidder? 2. Now this is a reasonable perspective. 3. True, but do you think the Sox paid both Eloy and Robert exactly what the Sox estimate their worth to be? Of course not. Just look at the team options at the end of the deal. The Sox think they will be getting a deal on both guys in the long run. Yes, there is risk there for the Sox but I would venture to guess these types of deals for top prospects work far more often than fail (Jon Singleton is the only failed early extension I can think of). 4. When you are either always positive or always negative about absolutely EVERYTHING when it comes to the Sox, you will typically be right more often than not. If Madrigal isn’t extended, will that negate your Robert extension prediction? It’s pretty easy to simply predict extensions for the two players that need them to make the opening day roster, considering that is exactly how Eloy made the opening day roster last offseason. Finally, you also predicted that the Sox would re-sign Yolmer and offered up a few ridiculous contract terms. Meanwhile, you were way off and he signed for a minor league deal with the Giants. Your predictions are simply based on your love for current Sox players, 100% positivity, and guesswork. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Edited January 30, 2020 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: SOB you're right. I should not do this while asking NASA for $800k in another window. My apologies I'm out. Just goes to show, Sox are in great position when the guys we're worried about losing still have four years of control. Anything the Sox can do in '20 is just gravy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, PantsRowland said: So 2022 rolls around and you're looking at two years of legit World Series contention, you trade a couple of your best players for prospects? I'd rather just let them walk. I didn't say trade them for prospects. Trade them for whatever you need or want. Just don't pull a Baltimore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 If we're in Baltimore's position in '22, something went seriously wrong. I'd think what the Sox would want is a middle order bat and a top of rotation starter, so no point trading them unless the Sox have flopped with this rebuild. '22-23 are lining up to be the prime years of contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: 1. Did Kris Bryant or his agent Boras ever officially announce from the beginning that they intended to wait for free agency and go to the highest bidder? 2. Now this is a reasonable perspective. 3. True, but do you think the Sox paid both Eloy and Robert exactly what the Sox estimate their worth to be? Of course not. Just look at the team options at the end of the deal. The Sox think they will be getting a deal on both guys in the long run. Yes, there is risk there for the Sox but I would venture to guess these types of deals for top prospects work far more often than fail (Jon Singleton is the only failed early extension I can think of). 4. When you are either always positive or always negative about absolutely EVERYTHING when it comes to the Sox, you will typically be right more often than not. If Madrigal isn’t extended, will that negate your Robert extension prediction? It’s pretty easy to simply predict extensions for the two players that need them to make the opening day roster, considering that is exactly how Eloy made the opening day roster last offseason. Finally, you also predicted that the Sox would re-sign Yolmer and offered up a few ridiculous contract terms. Meanwhile, you were way off and he signed for a minor league deal with the Giants. Your predictions are simply based on your love for current Sox players, 100% positivity, and guesswork. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 1. Yep 2. Thank you 3. Yes I think they both got good deals 4. Of course any of us who step forward with an opinion risk the ridicule of half a dozen posters. After all...it's much easier to criticize others ideas than have one of your own. I stepped forward immediately upon learning that Yolmer signed with the Giants and said it surprised me and it still does. I was correct in my Grandal "hunch" and not looking good with my Pence "guess". I didn't realize that only people like yourself with insider information were allowed to post. My predictions are based on a lifelong following of the Sox and my 100% positivity (you must have missed my Ricky bunting rants) and guesswork is just the same as your 100% negativity and guesswork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, poppysox said: 1. Yep 2. Thank you 3. Yes I think they both got good deals 4. Of course any of us who step forward with an opinion risk the ridicule of half a dozen posters. After all...it's much easier to criticize others ideas than have one of your own. I stepped forward immediately upon learning that Yolmer signed with the Giants and said it surprised me and it still does. I was correct in my Grandal "hunch" and not looking good with my Pence "guess". I didn't realize that only people like yourself with insider information were allowed to post. My predictions are based on a lifelong following of the Sox and my 100% positivity (you must have missed my Ricky bunting rants) and guesswork is just the same as your 100% negativity and guesswork. 1. I could not find this announcement. Care to share a link? I did find this however... https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2019/12/10/scott-boras-says-he-and-kris-bryant-are-more-than-willing-to-discuss-an-extension-with-the-cubs/ 4. I am not an insider, nor do I aspire to be one. There are enough fakes on Twitter. But good to know you are not a fan of Ricky Bunteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 The Cubs have not expressed much interest in extending Bryant post-grievance. Has Bryant himself commented about this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 10 hours ago, Balta1701 said: They have 3 years left right now. 2 years left is literally next offseason. If your 3 years left was accurate next offseason would have been my target date. On the one hand teams get hamstrung by signing players for many years at zillions of dollars when they wait to long to get it done...on the other hand you can't let them walk for basically nothing. Hahn has been excellent at saying the magic words that get good quality players to sign team friendly extensions early in their contract days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, tray said: The Cubs have not expressed much interest in extending Bryant post-grievance. Has Bryant himself commented about this? People are missing the point of this grievance. It is not Kris Bryant vs the Cubs it's Scott Boras vs the Owners. Scott Boras is the biggest player advote in baseball and hates the greedy owners with a white hot passion (which is almost as much as I hate them). He understands as well as anyone the system is broken and heavily tilted in the owners favor. This was just the first volley in what is going to be a fierce fight over service time manipulation and arbitration. All I have to say is go get em, Scott! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 hours ago, poppysox said: Machado. You sure the O's let him walk in free agency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 hours ago, PantsRowland said: Ok, I should say it wouldn't surprise me if he struggled to put up a .650 OPS and leave Yolmer out of it I'm more concerned about how Robert is with his high strikeout rate. I fully expect him to really struggle early on. I'm convinced Madrigal will hit. He will not have under a .650 OPS for a full season. His contact skills are just too good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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