Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 11:57 AM) Frank's 1.217 OPS that season is the 18th best OPS of all time. Take out Bonds' 4 seasons on that list and McGwire's 1, and it becomes the 13th best of all time. Of those 13 totals, they came from 5 players: Babe Ruth 7 times, Ted Williams 2 times, Rogers Hornsby 1 time, Lou Gehrig 1 time, and Jimmie Foxx 1 time. You don't fluke your way into a 1.217 OPS. (of course, Bagwell had a 1.201 OPS that season too, but that's a full two spots behind Thomas) I think you gotta give a little love to Julio Franco that season. It was next to impossible to pitch around Frank that year because of Julio's presence. I still remember the headline in the Suntimes when we acquired him. 'Sox hire a hitman'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 10:57 AM) That is, by far, the worst reason for any player to not get votes. I understand that you're just making a point (and a valid one, at that), but a player's relationship with the media should have absolutely no bearing on his chances at getting into the HOF. To be clear, I was not at all saying it was a GOOD reason. Just that for some, it may be their reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) To be clear, I was not at all saying it was a GOOD reason. Just that for some, it may be their reason. Oh, I completely understood and you are correct. It likely will come into play. It's just the dumbest reasoning on Earth, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 11:57 AM) Frank's 1.217 OPS that season is the 18th best OPS of all time. Take out Bonds' 4 seasons on that list and McGwire's 1, and it becomes the 13th best of all time. Of those 13 totals, they came from 5 players: Babe Ruth 7 times, Ted Williams 2 times, Rogers Hornsby 1 time, Lou Gehrig 1 time, and Jimmie Foxx 1 time. You don't fluke your way into a 1.217 OPS. (of course, Bagwell had a 1.201 OPS that season too, but that's a full two spots behind Thomas) As good as his season was that year, he had a slight slump right before the work stoppage. With another month and a half of the season left he probably would have recovered and had one of the top 5 seasons of all time. Check out his numbers at the all-star break that year. .383 BA .515OBP .795 SLG 1.311 OPS 32 HR 78 RBI. That is just a mind boggling first half, just imagine if he kept that pace all year long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 My first memory is sitting in the Lower Deck in 1994 and watching Frank Thomas hit a long, long home run. I was amazed. That's why I love baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Some of you are real paranoid about Frank getting in on the first ballot. He's a lock. Trust me. Well over 75%. Guarantee it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) Some of you are real paranoid about Frank getting in on the first ballot. He's a lock. Trust me. Well over 75%. Guarantee it. I hope you are right. We will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) Some of you are real paranoid about Frank getting in on the first ballot. He's a lock. Trust me. Well over 75%. Guarantee it. I agree with you. I think this Alomar thing has got some people shook up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Philips Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 13, 2011 -> 09:16 AM) I agree with you. I think this Alomar thing has got some people shook up. My most vivid image of Alomar was when he spit at the umpire. For that reason alone, I would have shunned him from the hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (forrestg @ Jan 14, 2011 -> 06:43 PM) My most vivid image of Alomar was when he spit at the umpire. For that reason alone, I would have shunned him from the hall. Nevermind the fact that he later apologized directly to Hirschbeck, became friends with him, and then helped Hirschbeck's children, who were disabled, in every feasible manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pale Sox Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) I'm writing everything having not read any previous post. But in my mind, what the hell is the difference? Frank f***ing Thomas is a first ballot HOFer. I say that as the ultimate tough guy on HOF ballots. I'm the guy that still says NO to Blyleven and would still say no to MB should be wind up in a similar position. But Frank Thomas is a first ballot hitter if there's ever been one. He's legendary. I'm a Sox fan for life, and I will say this. Sox fans took Frank for granted from almost day-1. it's true. i respect the white sox scepticism, but the bottom line was us underrated Frank. We had the Pujols of our generation, and we never gave him the love he earned. He's the greatest Sox of all-time, and yet he's treated like steve sax. I live and die white sox, but please....give it up for Frank! (as I wrote this whole thing there was a video of Frank, which is gone. So forget my whole intro Edited January 15, 2011 by Pale Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 04:06 AM) I'm writing everything having not read any previous post. But in my mind, what the hell is the difference? Frank f***ing Thomas is a first ballot HOFer. I say that as the ultimate tough guy on HOF ballots. I'm the guy that still says NO to Blyleven and would still say no to MB should be wind up in a similar position. But Frank Thomas is a first ballot hitter if there's ever been one. He's legendary. I'm a Sox fan for life, and I will say this. Sox fans took Frank for granted from almost day-1. it's true. i respect the white sox scepticism, but the bottom line was us underrated Frank. We had the Pujols of our generation, and we never gave him the love he earned. He's the greatest Sox of all-time, and yet he's treated like steve sax. I live and die white sox, but please....give it up for Frank! (as I wrote this whole thing there was a video of Frank, which is gone. So forget my whole intro Were you here in '06 when Frank vs KW broke out? Now keep in mind we were mere months fresh off of winning a championship. And, like, 90 % of the board sided with Frank. The only ones who didn't were still drunk off the World Series kool-aid and KW could've murdered their parents and they would've still sided with him. Some of the criticism Frank received over the years was justified. And even he's admitted as much very recently. But NOBODY has ever questioned the skills. Anybody who has is a fake Sox fan posing as a Cubs fan. In Frank's prime, time stood still when he came to bat. It was just like that 'Frozen Moment' commercial with MJ. Dude was a CLEAN 3-time MVP, Giambi can kiss my ass, during a time when over half the sport had overdosed on PEDs. He's the reason I'm a Sox fan to this day. Frank4motherf***inglife! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 09:44 AM) Great post. Maddux is in first ballot period, and I think Glavine and Thomas will battle just below that level. And with the general questions out there about big hitters in that era, I think that's enough to get Glavine in but Thomas out in their first ballots. Then Thomas goes in 2nd year. What I was going to say is . . . QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 08:36 AM) I don't see Glavine as a first timer, especially being on at the same time as Maddux. I think when people look at the two of them in the same group, they will see Greg as a big step above Tommy, and leave him off for the most part. Either way, I don't see that stopping Frank. ^^^ Glad I kept reading instead of hitting reply and basically writing the same thing. QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 12, 2011 -> 10:57 AM) That is, by far, the worst reason for any player to not get votes. I understand that you're just making a point (and a valid one, at that), but a player's relationship with the media should have absolutely no bearing on his chances at getting into the HOF. I believe the HoF should recognize a person's entire contribution to MLB, including the off the field stuff. If you elevate the game in the eyes of the public, contribute towards a positive image of baseball, that should add to your chances. s*** on the game with gambling, PEDs, etc. and your chances should drop considerably. The media thing is something I'd also weigh, but less than PEDs, arrests, etc. The HoF should be a celebration of all the best people that have been part of MLB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 06:38 AM) What I was going to say is . . . ^^^ Glad I kept reading instead of hitting reply and basically writing the same thing. I believe the HoF should recognize a person's entire contribution to MLB, including the off the field stuff. If you elevate the game in the eyes of the public, contribute towards a positive image of baseball, that should add to your chances. s*** on the game with gambling, PEDs, etc. and your chances should drop considerably. The media thing is something I'd also weigh, but less than PEDs, arrests, etc. The HoF should be a celebration of all the best people that have been part of MLB. I think it's ridiculous that a guy like Frank Thomas can be shunned by the voters, if even for just one year, because he didn't like to talk to the media. I mean, that's just retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 03:14 PM) I think it's ridiculous that a guy like Frank Thomas can be shunned by the voters, if even for just one year, because he didn't like to talk to the media. I mean, that's just retarded. The media folk are a notoriously defensive group, and I'm not just talking about sports. I can totally see them clinging to their spite, even though they clearly shouldn't. Not everybody's personality is well-suited to spewing PR lines, and that has nothing to do with their baseball abilities or even their community relations. Stupid media... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 05:23 PM) The media folk are a notoriously defensive group, and I'm not just talking about sports. I can totally see them clinging to their spite, even though they clearly shouldn't. Not everybody's personality is well-suited to spewing PR lines, and that has nothing to do with their baseball abilities or even their community relations. Stupid media... Two words for those thinking Frank Thomas's media demeanor will hold him up. Eddie Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 06:23 PM) The media folk are a notoriously defensive group, and I'm not just talking about sports. I can totally see them clinging to their spite, even though they clearly shouldn't. Not everybody's personality is well-suited to spewing PR lines, and that has nothing to do with their baseball abilities or even their community relations. Stupid media... This is Jay Cutler's "problem" in a nutshell. He doesn't really give a s*** about the agendas of reporters and doesn't really play their game and they hate him for it, so they go out of their way to write stupid s*** about his personality that has nothing to do with his ability as a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 06:19 PM) This is Jay Cutler's "problem" in a nutshell. He doesn't really give a s*** about the agendas of reporters and doesn't really play their game and they hate him for it, so they go out of their way to write stupid s*** about his personality that has nothing to do with his ability as a player. Like it or not, crap all over the sport, no matter how good you are and it hurts the sport. Why honor a guy that hurt the sport? I'm not saying Frank hurt the sport, I'm saying the guys that did with PEDs should be shunned, and those that helped it by being Class A humans, (Baines, Banks) should be honored. Character and overall contribution to the game should be factored in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 09:56 PM) Like it or not, crap all over the sport, no matter how good you are and it hurts the sport. Why honor a guy that hurt the sport? I'm not saying Frank hurt the sport, I'm saying the guys that did with PEDs should be shunned, and those that helped it by being Class A humans, (Baines, Banks) should be honored. Character and overall contribution to the game should be factored in. Not giving a s*** about stupid reporter questions and treating it like a waste of time? Absolutely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 09:03 PM) Not giving a s*** about stupid reporter questions and treating it like a waste of time? Absolutely not. Promoting the game and being a role model? Absolutely. Being a scum bag, gambling, cheating, PEDs, beating your wife, not giving a s*** about the franchise? Absolutely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 10:13 PM) Promoting the game and being a role model? Absolutely. Being a scum bag, gambling, cheating, PEDs, beating your wife, not giving a s*** about the franchise? Absolutely not. Not sure what youre arguing against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) Not sure what youre arguing against. lol no you are :-p Not sure what you're arguing against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Tex: Character issues are one thing; I think everyone here is in favor of supporting those who were ambassadors for the sport and pillars in the community (especially considering the jackassery prevalent amongst athletes); however, being aloof with the media is a personality trait, not a character trait. We're concerned that the media will punish Frank because they dislike his personality, which I think is well outside the boundaries of "fair game" when it comes to HOF elections. At the risk of mixing a few metaphors, if Favre had retired before heading to the Jets and revealing character issues, it would have been totally unacceptable to disallow him HOF entry because of his odious personality. And his personality is MUCH more irritating than Frank's. But, somehow, I think there are media members petty enough to see how disdainful Frank was of their job positions and it will affect their balloting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I think Frank should equal about 0 as far as media. No positive points, but no negative. I thought we had started discussing players in general. Sorry if I confused anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChrisSamsa Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 15, 2011 -> 10:14 PM) I think Frank should equal about 0 as far as media. No positive points, but no negative. I thought we had started discussing players in general. Sorry if I confused anyone. But can Frank get in on the first ballot with a media wash when guys like Maddux and Ken Griffey Jr are +100? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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