Send down Rodon and Call up EJ

[LDF]

Rodons problem is he has to throw strikes consistently. Does that get solved in AAA as opposed to the Majors? I don't see the difference.

 

then why move a player from AA to AAA.

 

the answer is reps and the clock for fa's.

[Knackattack]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to bring up EJ to spell everyone once a week. Mostly Danks.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Rodons problem is he has to throw strikes consistently. Does that get solved in AAA as opposed to the Majors? I don't see the difference.

 

Even if he could throw strikes, he couldn't survive facing ML hitters 3 times by just throwing fastball and sliders. All in all, he was far from a finished product and was rushed up. Now that EJ is having the best stretch of his career and Shark is staying, I think the move makes sense.

[Balta1701]

Rodons problem is he has to throw strikes consistently. Does that get solved in AAA as opposed to the Majors? I don't see the difference.

I'd say it's much more likely to get solved in the big leagues. In the minors his stuff is so overwhelming that people will expand the zone to defend against it. In the big leagues, the hitters have caught up and you can't overwhelm them with stuff. You have to throw strikes or you won't succeed. In the minors there are ways around that.

 

Oh, and EJ will have the same issue when he comes up.

[elrockinMT]

This isn't overreacting on just tonight's start. Since we're keeping Shark for now and EJ is ready for another big league stint, we should let Rodon go back to the minors and work on his changeup and command. You can't survive in the big leagues throwing 93% FB and slider with terrible command. I think the move benefits us both in the short term and long term.

 

 

He had a bad game. He has had several very good games. He needs to throw strikes and attack the hitters. When he walks folks then he gets in trouble. Possibly based on the logic thrown out there we should send Sale down because he hasn't been all that sharp since the All-Star break and seven days off

[elrockinMT]

I'd say it's much more likely to get solved in the big leagues. In the minors his stuff is so overwhelming that people will expand the zone to defend against it. In the big leagues, the hitters have caught up and you can't overwhelm them with stuff. You have to throw strikes or you won't succeed. In the minors there are ways around that.

 

Oh, and EJ will have the same issue when he comes up.

 

 

I agree and I think he did last year and his ego took a beating.

[iamshack]

Rodons problem is he has to throw strikes consistently. Does that get solved in AAA as opposed to the Majors? I don't see the difference.

AAA may only mask it, potentially, because you're going to have weaker hitters swinging at more of his crap out of the zone.

 

The question is can you afford to take the lumps at the mlb level right now if you're fighting for a wildcard.

 

Edit: I see Balta beat me to the punch.

Edited August 1, 2015 by iamshack

[Balta1701]

I agree and I think he did last year and his ego took a beating.

You mean EJ? Much different problem last year. His fastball mysteriously lost 3-4 mph.

[LDF]

AAA may only mask it, potentially, because you're going to have weaker hitters swinging at more of his crap out of the zone.

 

The question is can you afford to take the lumps at the mlb level right now if you're fighting for a wildcard.

 

Edit: I see Balta beat me to the punch.

 

here is the most important question. do the sox FO still think the sox can make the WC.

 

most of the recent conversation, at least for me, was in the thinking that the sox plays it out. with EJ being called up. what will happen, will happen. i think the non movement on the trade front, was an acknowledgment that the sox gave up the wc chase.

[LDF]

You mean EJ? Much different problem last year. His fastball mysteriously lost 3-4 mph.

 

nice one. i totally forgot about that.

 

good call.

[elrockinMT]

You mean EJ? Much different problem last year. His fastball mysteriously lost 3-4 mph.

 

 

Yes, EJ. It went South for him after he started to get hit around and lost control. I think he will be back with the Sox this season sometime

[Balta1701]

Yes, EJ. It went South for him after he started to get hit around and lost control. I think he will be back with the Sox this season sometime

I disagree. He never had his fastball even in spring training. We kept waiting for it to come back and it didn't. We were wondering if he was a slow starter and his arm would loosen up but it never did. If it were mental, it wasn't a control thing, at least not at the start.

[Kyyle23]

then why put a pitch restriction on anyone. why spread out a pitcher starts, why when a game is out of reach, they bring in a player to substitute...

 

the answer is easy.... the fear of the unknown > injury.

 

Putting a pitch restriction on someone isn't remotely close to shelving a pitcher for the final two months of the season because there is some outlandish chance that the pitcher hurts himself. That is ridiculous

[LDF]

Putting a pitch restriction on someone isn't remotely close to shelving a pitcher for the final two months of the season because there is some outlandish chance that the pitcher hurts himself. That is ridiculous

 

if you say so.

[venom4789]

I was never to impressed with EJ, seems like people love him as much as they did marcus semien here, i would much rather let rodon work through it. Also sending him to the minors puts him against weaker hitters, let him iron things out in the mlb.

[Jake]

I would skip his next start and give to EJ without sending Rodon down. I would then put Rodon back in the rotation, demoting Danks to the long relief/starting purgatory that we had with Noesi to start the year. Carlos needs to take his lumps up here. If he's going to be an automatic loss every start, then we just won't make a playoff run. We're within striking distance of the wildcard, but we're not in a position to jeopardize the development of one of the most important players in the organization. Rodon is just one of those things that needs to "go right" for us to make a run.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I'd say it's much more likely to get solved in the big leagues. In the minors his stuff is so overwhelming that people will expand the zone to defend against it. In the big leagues, the hitters have caught up and you can't overwhelm them with stuff. You have to throw strikes or you won't succeed. In the minors there are ways around that.

 

Oh, and EJ will have the same issue when he comes up.

 

You have a solid point, but that's not to say that pitchers couldn't harness their control in the minors. Furthermore, Rodon in the minors walked 17 batters in 34 innings, so it isn't as if this is only an issue in the big leagues.

 

I think the bigger issue is his changeup is a below average, show-me pitch at the moment. Looking at his splits, opponents have an OPS of over 1.000 and wRC+ of 199 on his changeup. RH hitters have an OPS of nearly .900 against him, that just tells me that without a effective changeup, he will continue to struggle in the big leagues. Given the margin for error is a lot smaller in the big leagues, I think he's trying to avoid that pitch as much as possible. It will be interesting to get some insider info on whether throwing only 8% changeup is by design, or that he just doesn't have confidence in that pitch. All in all, it would be best if he's given the chance to work on this pitch in the minors.

[Balta1701]

You have a solid point, but that's not to say that pitchers couldn't harness their control in the minors. Furthermore, Rodon in the minors walked 17 batters in 34 innings, so it isn't as if this is only an issue in the big leagues.

 

I think the bigger issue is his changeup is a below average, show-me pitch at the moment. Looking at his splits, opponents have an OPS of over 1.000 and wRC+ of 199 on his changeup. RH hitters have an OPS of nearly .900 against him, that just tells me that without a effective changeup, he will continue to struggle in the big leagues. Given the margin for error is a lot smaller in the big leagues, I think he's trying to avoid that pitch as much as possible. It will be interesting to get some insider info on whether throwing only 8% changeup is by design, or that he just doesn't have confidence in that pitch. All in all, it would be best if he's given the chance to work on this pitch in the minors.

For his first couple starts he threw 0 changeups, so not using it much is clearly deliberate. He's working it in more with time, but he doesn't have it every game just yet.

[Balta1701]

I was never to impressed with EJ, seems like people love him as much as they did marcus semien here, i would much rather let rodon work through it. Also sending him to the minors puts him against weaker hitters, let him iron things out in the mlb.

He doesn't have #1 stuff, but he's got legit big league rotation stuff. Low to mid 90s fastball, multilple breaking pitches, decent enough control of it all so far, big frame where you look at him and think his body can handle just about anything you throw at it. He's not Chris Sale, but with time you could convince me he's a mid to even upper rotation guy.

[thxfrthmmrs]

He had a bad game. He has had several very good games. He needs to throw strikes and attack the hitters. When he walks folks then he gets in trouble. Possibly based on the logic thrown out there we should send Sale down because he hasn't been all that sharp since the All-Star break and seven days off

 

LOL. That's quite a strawman right there. If Chris Sale wasn't an established pitcher, only pitched 30 total innings in the minors, has serious control issues, and is only a 2 pitcher starting pitcher, then yea I'd say send him down, otherwise it's a totally different deal. Yea sure, Sale was a quick riser too, but he got a chance to work on his stuff in the pen for 2 years, and he should be the exception, not the rule.

 

Carlos has been struggling for a while now, it isn't just one bad game last night. 4 out of his past 6 starts were pretty bad outings. I'd say it's time to bail him out and let him develop a bit more in the minors.

[thxfrthmmrs]

For his first couple starts he threw 0 changeups, so not using it much is clearly deliberate. He's working it in more with time, but he doesn't have it every game just yet.

 

And he'd have a lot more opportunities and margin of error to work on that pitch in Triple A if given a proper game plan. Personally, I think it's silly to let a pitcher learn a new pitch on the fly in the big leagues, especially if he's only a 2-pitch pitcher so far, it would do damage to his confidence if he struggles, and I think the team will wants to go after the WC spot.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Rodons problem is he has to throw strikes consistently. Does that get solved in AAA as opposed to the Majors? I don't see the difference.

 

 

I don't either. And bad minor league hitters will swing at garbage. Someone mentioned this in another thread but Rodon looks like a guy that was pitching against Boston College last year. He'll be fine.

[LDF]

And he'd have a lot more opportunities and margin of error to work on that pitch in Triple A if given a proper game plan. Personally, I think it's silly to let a pitcher learn a new pitch on the fly in the big leagues, especially if he's only a 2-pitch pitcher so far, it would do damage to his confidence if he struggles, and I think the team will wants to go after the WC spot.

 

whether the sox goes for the WC is not for this discussion.

 

having Rodon up in the majors, well the sox didn't or thought they didn't have a choice. so he is here. is he ready, again he is up and he is getting first hand knowledge and training from coop. if he skips an occasional start to continue to continue in his develop plan. ok, does he need to go down to more development time, why? he is getting the best now, in real time and putting it to real competition, which is the best way to judge and gage his development.

 

now one can say that it might harm his ego or mind set. if the sox thought that, then they would have sent him down.

one can say that they need the sport for a skilled pitcher in a WC chase, well the sox didn't get one via trade and sorry, no one is ready to take over.

 

so, i think he is at the best place to get the best kind of training.

[southsider2k5]

then why move a player from AA to AAA.

 

the answer is reps and the clock for fa's.

 

The move from AA to AAA has nothing to do with free agency.

[greg775]

LOL. That's quite a strawman right there. If Chris Sale wasn't an established pitcher, only pitched 30 total innings in the minors, has serious control issues, and is only a 2 pitcher starting pitcher, then yea I'd say send him down, otherwise it's a totally different deal. Yea sure, Sale was a quick riser too, but he got a chance to work on his stuff in the pen for 2 years, and he should be the exception, not the rule.

 

Carlos has been struggling for a while now, it isn't just one bad game last night. 4 out of his past 6 starts were pretty bad outings. I'd say it's time to bail him out and let him develop a bit more in the minors.

Rodon looks like an average prospect at best right now. To be honest, he's resembling Danks. About 50 percent of his outings are good, the rest are lousy. This year is a rebuilding year so he's learning on the job in the bigs. On paper, the Sox rotation has to be the best in baseball. It's just inconsistent sometimes. Rodon has been nasty nasty at times but also has been horrific.

Edited August 1, 2015 by greg775