Robin Ventura should be fired today

[Vance Law]

Robin Ventura shouldn't be fired.

[Chicago White Sox]

Robin Ventura shouldn't be fired.

Compelling stuff right here. Hard to disagree when you put it like that.

[caulfield12]

Robin Ventura shouldn't be fired.

 

 

Then what is your suggestion to end this 6-18 stretch? Just let it run its course, and hope for the best?

 

Sounds like the same approach we've been taking for a decade. Be patient. Things will turn around. It's a long season. Jackson and Cabrera will be back. Shields is a proven leader! Did the Tigers fire Brad Ausmus when they were 3-5 games under .500 and things were looking bleak? Did the Royals just fire Ned Yost after a four game sweep in CLE and a disastrous game from a managerial standpoint that led to it in the first game?

 

Besides, we can always make moves at the deadline...except, oooops, there's too many teams in the AL that are competitive all searching for that little extra advantage, so maybe we should sit this trade market out instead of trading away our final remaining minor league assets. We still don't really know what we have after 85-90 games so we'll just stand pat and play it out and assess for building a team that will be 100% ready to compete out of the gate in 2017. Err...I mean, a team that will not be out of the race in April but also will not fold like an accordion in May after being the best team in the AL for the first five or six weeks. There, that's the ticket.

Edited June 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[pettie4sox]

Robin Ventura shouldn't be fired.

 

Why?

[Dick Allen]

Firing Robin fixes everything.

 

 

[flavum]

Firing Robin fixes everything.

 

No, it's an attempt at fixing one thing we know is wrong and has been wrong for years.

[Dick Allen]

No, it's an attempt at fixing one thing we know is wrong and has been wrong for years.

It really hasn't. no manager would have won games with the 2013-2015 White Sox. But keep kidding yourselves,

[flavum]

It really hasn't. no manager would have won games with the 2013-2015 White Sox. But keep kidding yourselves,

 

Keep being an apologist for a team that hasn't made the playoffs for seven seasons going on eight.

[Dick Allen]

Keep being an apologist for a team that hasn't made the playoffs for seven seasons going on eight.

Greg Walker was the big problem when he was here. Not the players, not anything else. He gets fired, and the offense was fixed. Nope.

 

I.would.rather the Sox do something player wise.it actually produces results.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Dick Allen

[captain54]

Feels like it's about the perfect time for KW to make some incendiary statements that throw Hahn/Ventura under the bus and attempt to distance himself from this current mess....

 

More than likely, for Kenny to dip into the excuse bag on the Detroit sweep and site the absence of Cabrera and Jackson.

 

My crystal ball tells me the standard tossing of the players under the bus, will follow. Immediately followed by the outrage by KW, that how dare the lack of player performance screw up his 3 yr plan

Edited June 6, 2016 by captain54

[flavum]

Greg Walker was the big problem when he was here. Not the players, not anything else. He gets fired, and the offense was fixed. Nope.

 

Once again, changing manager would be an attempt at fixing one of the known problems for the White Sox. Not the only problem. So bringing up Greg Walker as some kind of diss makes no sense. Just go to your dozens of games and enjoy your losses.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Robin should've been fired long time ago

[klaus kinski]

If nothing else, the record against division teams warrants a change

[captain54]

It really hasn't. no manager would have won games with the 2013-2015 White Sox. But keep kidding yourselves,

 

It's funny you mention that because, I was just thinking of an interview that Reinsdorf gave in 2003, right around the time that Manuel was under fire for lack of results. When asked if replacing Manuel was being discussed, Reinsdorf's response was..."Jerry Manuel is given a roster of players. The results he gets, or lack of results, from the players he is given, determines whether or not we need to think in another direction"

 

It's interesting how Jerry Manuel was launched for not getting the most out of the roster he was given, but Ventura manages not be held to the same standard

 

[captain54]

Once again, changing manager would be an attempt at fixing one of the known problems for the White Sox. Not the only problem. So bringing up Greg Walker as some kind of diss makes no sense. Just go to your dozens of games and enjoy your losses.

 

Keep in mind, the same mopes that hired Ventura, will be responsible for finding his replacement, if and when the time comes

 

[Black_Jack29]

It really hasn't. no manager would have won games with the 2013-2015 White Sox. But keep kidding yourselves,

 

Managers are so ridiculously scapegoated. It doesn't help that there's an endless supply of rubes who think that changing the guy who pencils in the lineup will automatically make the pitchers get hitters out and the hitters hit with runners in scoring position.

 

[flavum]

Keep in mind, the same mopes that hired Ventura, will be responsible for finding his replacement, if and when the time comes

 

That's fine. Maybe they'll hire someone qualified this time.

[flavum]

Managers are so ridiculously scapegoated. It doesn't help that there's an endless supply of rubes who think that changing the guy who pencils in the lineup will automatically make the pitchers get hitters out and the hitters hit with runners in scoring position.

 

You have a right to your opinion. I think you're wrong.

[Black_Jack29]

You have a right to your opinion. I think you're wrong.

 

Managers have little effect on the game, unless they're abusing the pitching staff or doing something ridiculous like giving the least productive players the most playing time. The worst thing that RV has done is bat Rollins second. And he's not only given up on that, but appears to be giving Saladino most of the playing time at SS.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Greg Walker was the big problem when he was here. Not the players, not anything else. He gets fired, and the offense was fixed. Nope.

 

I.would.rather the Sox do something player wise.it actually produces results.

Why can't we do both? The players and the manager are BOTH problems. Why do you continue to act like we can only address one or the other? Let's get rid of Robin and improve our roster. This isn't an either or thing.

[jasonxctf]

The players aren't performing for this manager. He isn't bringing out the best in them.

 

Like any other profession, if the employees aren't focused and are slacking off, that's a management problem.

 

Robin actually reminds me of my college coach. He took the approach that we were "adults" and could self-manage and be self-disciplined. In the end we slacked off, took the easy road and greatly under performed.

[Chicago White Sox]

Managers have little effect on the game

This is one of the worst arguments for keeping Robin. The dude completely sucks at his job, but because some Fangraphs article says managers don't matter, I guess we should keep him right? Let's ignore an obvious area of potential improvement because it may only be worth a game or two in the long run. And quite frankly, I think it may worth more than that. Just like we're seeing in the valuation of high-end relievers, context does matter and a manager has the ability to impact the outcome of close games. No doubt it's hard to quantify their value, but that doesn't mean they have little impact on the game.

 

Honestly, how many of you apologists still have Robin Ventura posters hanging in your basements? Robin was my favorite player growing up, but you know what, that doesn't mean I can't objective about his abilities as a manager. The guy has accomplished nothing in his tenure with us. He is one of the worst in-game managers I can remember in a long time. I can't think of one positive he provides other than not bringing clubhouse issues to the media. I'm sure the team likes playing for him because he is a nice, laid back guy. Unfortunately, his leadership style isn't working and a change is needed.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Chicago White Sox

[caulfield12]

It's part of this whole saber argument...managers don't matter, not easily quantifiable.

 

If that's the case, why is the motivational/self-help/positive and affirming life principles to live by one of the biggest annual sellers for every publishing house? It's easy to study leadership and check off traits and attributes and run experiments to assess if it's something you can develop or are simply born with, but you know it when you see it. You can almost FEEL it.

 

At any rate, if the problem isn't Ventura:

 

1) It's on Hahn, KW and Bell on the talent development side

2) Marco Paddy...seems we haven't heard nearly as much about him recently (still waiting on all those Latin American prospects, and waiting, and waiting)

3) Or, it's on JR and family for not providing enough financial resources, which brings us back to:

4) The fans

5) The bad luck of not having an influx of broadcasting rights money like 10-12 other franchises are taking advantage of

 

Since you can't fire the fans, and they've already tried replacing almost an entire roster from 2012 other than Sale and Quintana, what other conclusions could be reached?

 

Hahn, KW or both aren't really good at their jobs. Since they're unlikely to fire themselves, and only JR can fire Hahn or KW, then it's obvious what will happen first. Ventura will be scapegoated, but in a quiet and respectful way...."they didn't see the improvements they envisioned when he was hired, his heart was no longer in managing and he felt it was time to become more active with his children, grandchildren, etc."

Edited June 6, 2016 by caulfield12

[Special K]

Players under achieve. Whether that's the manager's fault for lack of motivation or should be on the players is debatable. But Robin makes a lot of dumb strategic decisions which makes us want to assume everything is his fault. Rollins has no business DH'ing. He otherwise has mishandled many different matchups offensively and defensively, IMO. He also has mishandled the 2 hole... Abreu shouldn't hit there nor should Rollins. he has also missed some obvious challenges this year. And he is "low energy". That's my beef with Robin. Not the under performance of players.

[Panerista]

It really hasn't. no manager would have won games with the 2013-2015 White Sox. But keep kidding yourselves,

It's like you're watching a different team.

 

You know it's time to fire a manager when the argument for keeping him is

 

"Manager just isn't that important"

Edited June 6, 2016 by Deadpool