cwsox

he was a good guy and a gutsy all out player. and I am not a Black hawks fan at all but Magnuson was one of the really good guys. Really sad to hear this.

Nuke, we disagree on this, as we have on other things, and our perspectives and life experiences are different and that will account for that, there is no right, there is no wrong, there is only being faithful to the truth as we are given to see it. You have put your ass on the line. I deeply respect that - you are no armchair warrior or sunshine patriot. I am a pacifist. I think the witness must be there that there are other ways than violence since there are so many witnesses for violence. All I asked of my sons was they make their mind up with a clear conscience before God and my younger son, the Marine, did just that - and hey, if that is the way that he feels called, in a real world there is military, so God bless him and God bless you and God bless everyone whose life has been on the line doing what they have been asked to do, doing what you have been called to do. I never ask for everyone to agree - I only ask for internal moral consistency. You were there, my son is there, no armchair warriors here and I find myself supporting a general for president so it goes how it goes! You were in many prayers there, nuke.

Again, I did not say that I did not believe you. do you know Juan Gone? If I have spoken less than praise about a friend, I am not commenting on him as a person but as someone who watched his play in Detroit. At any rate, his public image would need some work. That public image may be fair or unfair. The Michigan media all believed he quit on the Tigers. I don't normally pay that much detailed attention to the Tigers but the last part of his career in Motown no one could miss the very public perception that he quit on the Tigers. And I do not recall him ever speaking against that perception, but I remember him complaining about the Tigers and Comerica and his play indicated someone going through the motions. If there is an argument against that, I would love to hear it. If he becomes a player on our team, he will have to do some PR for at least one fan and show every day that the rep he left Detroit with is not fair.

I promise you, I will never, ever do that.

no I am not saying that in fact, read the sentence above the one you quote I am saying that life is not fair and that actions have consequences (law of physics, yes?) and some people play and get away and some people play and don't and there is no fairness - but if you play in the street, you may get hiot by a car - surely may be the driver's fault - but street smarts have to apply - like in Casabalanca when they found gambling at Rick's, the realities of what can happen should not leave us shocked, shocked the actions are wrong and I spoke of very disproportionate in a prior post whart she did is wrong he is no innocent bystander life is not fair like wearing a condom, if you are going to play - and remember, he could have given his wife AIDAS or an STD and given her a death sentence with AIDS - you do it with protection - street smarts - don't leave the goods unprotected if you have given any occasion for an act of revenge even if, maybe especially if, the revenge would be grossly wrong and disproportionate all violence is wrong and so is the black eye and the broken jaw and the non visible damaage that violence does and its not equal per se but life is not fair so don't be shocked shocked when unfairness happens and I can't parse this much more, just please look at all I am saying and not a sentence out of it

I appreciate the honesty with which this conversation has gone and full disclosure, I have buried people on all sides of this equation and workm in a law office' as Steff said, every state has dramn act laws - Texsox has told us movingly about why - Fanof14 points to responsibility, and has told us movingly why - now unless Minnesota's laws are very different and I doubt that, anyone can file a suit - that is a freedom assumed in the Bill of Rights - the spouse has filed suit as is her right - if the sports franchise and/or alcohol server are found liable, the next step is to apportion responsibility and then all the factors are brought in - did the Wild have a policy on serving people visibly intoxicated, did the server just sell to a drunk for the profit, did the wife have any reason to know her husband was a sports binge drinker, the guy himself what was his role was he bombed or over-drink knowingly - when the details of this particular case are examined, the judge (probably a judge, maybe a jury) can find that given the facts in this case, each party is % responsible and so any financial award after liability is determiend will be the % to which responsibility is found for each party

spiff, I have no heart to play semantics now and I don't mean that in a negative way, implying anything - I ahve thought about what you said as I always do and the conversation in my head is too complex to put all down here because there are a lot of shadings to everything surely what she did was very wrong and in fact disproportionate and yet those who live by the sword die by the sword all violence is wrong and there is not a jurisdiction in this country that I know of where she is not going to be prosecuted but every guy who thinks his penis is important, don't risk it - that is just street smarts

NEW ORLEANS BOWL New Orleans Dec. 16, 7 p.m. (ESPN2) North Texas vs. Memphis North Texas GMAC BOWL Mobile, Ala. Dec. 18, 8 p.m. (ESPN2) Miami (Ohio) vs. Louisville Miami TANGERINE BOWL Orlando Dec. 22, 5:30 p.m. (ESPN) North Carolina State vs. Kansas NC State FORT WORTH BOWL Fort Worth, Texas Dec. 23, 7:30 p.m. (ESPN) Boise State vs. Texas Christian Boise State LAS VEGAS BOWL Las Vegas Dec. 24, 7:30 p.m. (ESPN) New Mexico vs. Oregon State Oregon State HAWAII BOWL Honolulu Dec. 25, 8 p.m. (ESPN) Hawaii vs. Houston Hawaii MOTOR CITY BOWL Detroit, Mich. Dec. 26, 5 p.m. (ESPN) Bowling Green vs. Northwestern Bowling Green INSIGHT BOWL Phoenix Dec. 26, 8:30 p.m. (ESPN) Virginia Tech vs. California Virginia Tech CONTINENTAL TIRE BOWL Charlotte, N.C. Dec. 27, 11 a.m. (ESPN) Virginia vs. Pittsburgh Virginia ALAMO BOWL San Antonio Dec. 29, 9 p.m. (ESPN) Michigan State vs. Nebraska I have pondered long and hard on this Michigan State HOUSTON BOWL Houston Dec. 30, 4:30 p.m. (ESPN) Texas Tech vs. Navy Texas Tech SILICON VALLEY CLASSIC San Jose, Calif. Dec. 30, 7:30 p.m. (ESPN2) Fresno State vs. UCLA Fresno State HOLIDAY BOWL San Diego Dec. 30, 8 p.m. (ESPN) Washington State vs. Texas Texas MUSIC CITY BOWL Nashville, Tenn. Dec. 31, Noon (ESPN) Auburn vs. Wisconsin Wisconsin SUN BOWL El Paso, Texas Dec. 31, 2 p.m. (CBS) Oregon vs. Minnesota Minnesota LIBERTY BOWL Memphis Dec. 31, 3:30 p.m. (ESPN) Southern Mississippi vs. Utah does anyone care? Utah INDEPENDENCE BOWL Shreveport, La. Dec. 31, 7:30 p.m. (ESPN) Arkansas vs. Missouri Arkansas SAN FRANCISCO BOWL San Francisco Dec. 31, 10:30 p.m. (ESPN2) Colorado State vs. Boston College Boston College OUTBACK BOWL Tampa, Fla. Jan. 1, 11 a.m. (ESPN) Iowa vs. Florida Last year: Michigan 38, Florida 30 Iowa GATOR BOWL Jacksonville, Fla. Jan. 1, 12:30 p.m. (NBC) Maryland vs. West Virginia West Virginia CAPITAL ONE BOWL Orlando, Fla. Jan. 1, 2003, 1 p.m. (ABC) Georgia vs. Purdue Purdue ROSE BOWL Pasadena, Calif. Jan. 1, 5 p.m. (ABC) Southern California vs. Michigan Michigan :headbang ORANGE BOWL Miami Jan. 1, 8:30 p.m. (ABC) Florida State vs. Miami (Fla.) haven't we seen this one already this year? Florida State COTTON BOWL Dallas Jan. 2, 2 p.m. (FOX) Oklahoma State vs. Mississippi Oklahoma State PEACH BOWL Atlanta Jan. 2, 4:30 p.m. (ESPN) Clemson vs. Tennessee Tennessee FIESTA BOWL Tempe, Ariz. Jan. 2, 8 p.m. (ABC) Kansas State vs. Ohio State Ohio State HUMANITARIAN BOWL Boise Jan. 3, 2 p.m. (ESPN) Tulsa vs. Georgia Tech Tulsa SUGAR BOWL New Orleans Jan. 4, 8 p.m. (ABC) Oklahoma vs. Louisiana State Oklahoma

I do not agree with that analogy at all. "Mouthing off" - hell, everyone gets mad and yells. But cheating on one's spouse - that is far more controllable. I don't justify the action, but those who play with fire run the risk of getting burned.

I have no doubt that you heard something. I have no doubt that Juan Gone would be a huge, huge mistake.

Having witnessed Juan Gone's "I don't give a s***" playing style in Detroit, I vehemently do not want him in a Sox uniform. I give him credit for honesty - he made it clear he wanted nothing to do with Detroit and Comerica Park, but he also delivered by some of the most incredible "who cares?" play I have seen this side of D'Angelo Jimenez, except D'Lo sometimes cared. Even if he claimed he was motivated (and why should that even be an issue with a player we get) in December or March, once he has whatwever incident he needs where he gets p.o.ed, we are left with an "I'm not even going to try" player for the rest of the season. And remember that his original b**** was the size of Comerica's outfield. And for that he quit. Once he has to run to catch a ball at USCF or hits a fly ball to the warning track at USCF... No. No to Juan Gonzales. No. never. No way.

Agree in part, disagree in part. This all may deflate Saddam loyalistrs, what there were. It will not slow down or in any way effect al-queda, Iraqi nationalists who do not like their country occupied, or Islamic actvitists (I can't think fio a good word there) who do not like seeing an islamic country occupied. Reality is it may stir up everything there.

Not to quibble you child you, but that should have been

Steff is right - every state (that I know of) has laws on not serving intoxicated people. Everyone has a repsonsibility - including the server. The bar or whatever alcohol providing estabishment oprates under a license and as with all licenses, certain requirements and obligations go with that. I have buried people who have driven drunk and died; I have buried their victims. Among the places where responsibility lies, it includes those who profit off of selling alcohol. If a place that serves alcohol violates the law and serves an intoxicated person, then they have a moral and legal liability.

Hate to diifer with your sig, tex, but it seems to me that we have rebuilding since 1921, not 1917. The 1917 team - world series champs the 1918 team - not world series champs because of the players in the service for WW1 the 1919 team - not world series champs for reason we all know the 1920 team - was in first place and cruising until with a few weeks left the prior year world series stuff hit the headlines and the team collapsed - it was for the 1921 season we lost 8 players and that is when the rebuilding began just my worthless opinion but for what it is worth, nothing, there it is

If only you were older, you should enlist in a branch of the service of the military that woulld put you on the front lines. Otherwise your words are self-serving, to say the least. Nuke and I disagree and that is ok, America allows disagreement, and I respect Nuke in that he has been there, he is in the service and has been there. My son is there now, a Marine. What is not right is the little war hawks who talk of things that they are so unwilling to back up with their lives, refusing to put their ass on the line. If you believe it, you do it - and I don't mean go to DC to lobby. You can do that now. When you are 18, feeling as you do, their is only one morally consistent place for you to go.

question for Nuke: isn't adultery a violation of the US military code?

me too

Mr./Ms. Underrated-WiteSoxFan

what is the source of that quote?

the message could be, don't cheat on one's spouse because when you bring infidelity and lies into a relationship, anything becomes possible and no one is immune to whatever emotional anger is released

he sure did in 2000 as all the observing world knows and as for the rest, that is not the way that I have heard it all, don't confuse what "everybody knows" with reality And the team did not "tank" on JM in 2003 - they tanked on themselves.

just to clarify, what I posted in this thread is not railing at Ozzie I have reserved my railing at Ozzie for other threads As for this: Ozzie may have opinions or insights on many things but unless they concern his team, they should be confidential - not every thought deserves broadcast - he is the Sox manager and thus he should not be commenting to the media on a player on one team wanting to play on another team no matter who it is the above run on sentence is commentary, not railing

Trial appears to be, at this time, going forward as an internal Iraqi matter; earlier this week something was set up for trying members of Sadaam's regime - and SS2k4, as to your comment - such always as is tyrants. Cleopatra, ruler of Egypt, killed herself rather than be captured by her enemies as she was not going to allow herself to be paraded as a prisoner through Rome - class shows and Saddam as in all things had none