greg775

True Santo, but I can't believe the reasons he gave for wanting to join the Tribe were impossible to overcome. I mean if I were a salesman I'd sure rather sell the product Chicago has to offer (in the big scheme of things) than Cleveland. Yes things change quickly in baseball and we could be on top soon again if we sign some impact players. -- This is a guy I've never seen pitch and who could suck. I'm assuming he's good and worth this argument to begin with. He might be a hack.

If you really can't understand why a Japanese career closer would not like to sign with the 2005 WS champs that need relievers, need relievers to eat up many many innings, a team in a city that beats the pants off the dump called Cleveland, a city that two players named Shingo and Iguchi fell in love with, a team that can compete for a WS title with proper tinkering (spending money), then I can't help you. Money talks. We didn't offer enough. my opinion is Kenny missed the boat and failed here. If you disagree fine. I can handle differences of opinion apparently unlike you at times.

I don't know why any team in baseball would for a minute consider acquiring those four White Sox. All four of them really really suck.

Uh ... I think I'll take the guy who has recorded the most consecutive outs in the history of baseball over those guys you mentioned. A guy who recorded as many saves as he did with one of the worst teams in baseball. Jenks is damn good.

OK, so back to my original question. Did they promise Hot Dog man he would pass Borowski or not? Even you agree Borowski is the closer in April. The Sox just can't make the right moves. They needed this guy and didn't get him. Living in Cleveland vs. Chicago ... they couldn't sell that as well? I think the Sox had a lot to sell. It's all about money anyway. They should have offered more than Cleve and they would have gotten the guy. Kenny's bullpen aside from Jenks is a piece of s***. He better improve it, especially losing Garland and starting 5 inning max guys in Danks, Jose C and Floyd.

I would disagree that can happen with Josh. First of all they don't do that in the offseason. Secondly, you either got it or you don't.

But Cleveland has a closer as well. Did the Tribe promise him they'd skip over Joe?

Glad to hear you believe he's really 33. We don't need another Contreras. Some Sox reporter should do an investigative piece on that one. He appears older than he's listed.

You are probably right, but I don't know why we couldn't pay him a bit more and tell him he could be a back end of the bullpen guy for the Sox as well. Not a closer, but if he produces, he'd get a ton of innings and if he's good, maybe a WS ring. Not to mention Iguchi loved it in Chicago, etc.

No offense to KW, but why not inquire if you are the Yanks? Target a top Sox player and try to steal him away like some of these other deals. Don't know why you'd trade the best closer in the AL and open up a hole there. Our bullpen is bad enough to ship Jenks anywhere.

I really hate to be a negative asshole and will probably stop this, after this post, but ... Cleveland just signed Kobayashi. Why didn't we sign him????? Our GM was too busy getting his butt handed to him in a bag in the Cabrera trade. Indians import: Cleveland signs Japanese closer Masahide Kobayashi to 2-year deal Eds: AMs. AP Photo CD105, CD102, NY164 By TOM WITHERS AP Sports Writer CLEVELAND (AP) — Not to be confused with his hot-dog chomping countryman, this Kobayashi might make late innings easier to stomach for the Cleveland Indians. Looking to strengthen the back end of their bullpen and add insurance for closer Joe Borowski, the Indians signed Japanese free agent Masahide Kobayashi to a $6.25 million, two-year contract on Tuesday. The deal includes a $3.25 million club option for 2010 with a $250,000 buyout. The 33-year-old Kobayashi spent the past nine seasons with the Chiba Lotte Marines, currently managed by Bobby Valentine. The right-handed reliever is one of three pitchers in Japanese baseball history with more than 200 saves. He will join Cleveland’s bullpen as a setup man for Borowski, who in his first season with the Indians led the AL with 45 saves — many of them shaky ones. Cleveland recently exercised Borowski’s $4 million option for 2008. “This is a guy who has extensive closing experience,” Indians general manager Mark Shapiro said at a news conference to introduce Kobayashi. “I view him in the upper echelon of guys who were available on the market.” Kobayashi is the first Japanese player signed by the Indians. The club has scouted him for several seasons. Cleveland had one of the top bullpens in the AL this year, but as Shapiro has learned, injuries and ineffectiveness are two factors that can pop up on a team at any time. “I don’t think we’ll ever be satisfied with our bullpen,” he said. “We’ll continue to work to reinforce and today was a big step.” Manager Eric Wedge can give the ball to Kobayashi in the seventh and eighth innings. He’ll be a nice complement for right-hander Rafael Betancourt and lefty Rafael Perez, who were two of the league’s top setup men last season. “If we’re as good a team as we think we’re going to be, there are going to be many opportunities to pitch in meaningful situations in the late innings,” Shapiro said. “That’s what we envision for him.” Kobayashi has saved at least 20 games in each of the last seven seasons. The Indians, who took World Series champion Boston to Game 7 of the AL championship series, are hoping they can follow the success the Red Sox had in signing Japanese pitchers. Starter Daisuke Matsuzaka and reliever Hideki Okajima were instrumental in helping the Red Sox win their second Series title in four years. Last season, Kobayashi went 2-7 with a 3.61 ERA and 27 saves in 49 appearances. He was on the disabled list in September with a minor neck injury but finished the regular season on the active roster and pitched in the playoffs. Kobayashi relies mainly on a slider as his out pitch. His fastball has been clocked in the mid-90s (mph) and he also throws a splitter. “No, I don’t throw the gyroball,” Kobayashi said, referring to Matsuzaka’s famed pitch. Kobayashi went 36-34 with a 2.79 ERA and 227 saves in 303 games for Chiba Lotte. In 2005, he led the Pacific League with 34 saves. He was a member of Japan’s Olympic baseball team in 2004. Some Japanese players have had a difficult time adjusting to the cultural change in the U.S., but Kobayashi anticipates blending into his new surroundings. “I don’t know what’s going to happen but I believe I will be OK in getting along with my teammates,” he said through a translator. Kobayashi has already shown he has a sense of humor. During his first news conference, he was asked what he knows about Cleveland. “Beautiful lake,” he said, cracking a smile, “and the city has the Indians.” Shapiro said the Indians, who have had experience in helping international players adjust to the U.S., plan to hire a full-time translator to help Kobayashi throughout the season. “Baseball is rapidly becoming a multicultural game,” said Shapiro, noting the Indians 40-man roster is dotted with players from Venezuela, the Dominican Republic and Korea. “Our players are going to embrace him and make him feel like part of the team. We will make his transition as smooth as we can.” Because Kobayashi was an unrestricted free agent, Cleveland did not have to pay a posting fee to Chiba Lotte to negotiate with him.

The thing is he has to trade for Cabrera. So the "big fish" still might rob us of a lot of our players. Isn't there room for both Hunter and Cabrera? It seems doing the video for Hunter and offering him a contract isn't a smokescreen. They want him via trade it's apparent. And they want Hunter.

They didn't visit him. They spoke on a video presentation KW showed him.

So does everybody. The issue as always is, go ahead and get Cabrera if you like him, but don't give up Garland for god sakes. If the Angels wanted pitching, make them take Floyd or MacDougal or Thornton or Charlie. Entice them with somebody who is not an effective inning eater. Garland is a No. 2, 3 pitcher available in a season where not much pitching is available. Bad bad trade.

I love the way whenever KW makes a s*** trade the consensus is to wait and see what his real master plan is. The master plan was to get a 33 year old light hitting shortstop for a major pitcher in a year not much pitching is available. He got abused on this trade.

Hunter, just to try something different with somebody not named Erstad. Then Rowand close second.

The question is ... how old is he now? Rumor in media I've read is he is another guy with doctored birth certificate.

No kidding. Knowing KW and Jerry it'll be trash and cash. How did we win a WS in 2005? That is what I want to know?

Considering the old stiff we got for young Garland, I hesitate to see what we'll get for Uribe. Two minor leaguers who will never sniff the big leagues. KW is in a major trading slump. Make a GOOD trade for once, Kenny.

I actually thought we were getting the other Cabrera when I heard the news today. I swear I did. But that would have been a GOOD trade on our side. KW I thank for the WS title, but this trade is yet another that SUCKS.

Love this thread. Thanks, thanks, thanks for your excellence and the WS title. And thanks for bringing us so much return in a trade ... NOT thanks to KW.

Me too. Our GM is an idiot. Wait ... he won the World Series. My god, his trades suck so bad. I mean Garland is an inning eater and can pitch. And we get this??? Unfricking believable. GM's must KNOW that KW is in love with the guy he wants to acquire and they just abuse him when making the deals.

That would be an awful scenario. If that is true, I would think most of the Sox season ticket holders would want to bail. Watching slow plodders when there is not a live ball can't be fun. Hopefully the ball will be alive next year and jump off the bats of Thome, Dye, Paul, AJP and Fields. Even Uribe fashions himself power more than anything else. Those guys are all slow. If they are not whacking it out of the park they are worthless.

That is unlikely to happen. I wish the Sox would part ways with the Royals rejects and outbid the Royals for this Japanese guy. I would rather we trot anybody out there than some of the hacks the Sox used in the pen last year.

It's pretty obvious Fields is a DH type. Whether he can blast homers at the rate of a Paulie/Thome remains to be seen. He is a butcher at 3B and in LF. Sox pitchers are not gonna be happy at all the errors at 3b.