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All those moments you mentioned were equally awful. Those were all low moments. I'd say this season doesn't match up to those, cause at least we made the playoffs during the seasons you mentioned, except '69. p.s. I read somewhere that without the Black Sox scandal the White sox probably would have had a great history. The team was stacked and probably would have won several world series. We are hexed because of that scandal.

I hope we realize this winter that trades sometimes don't work out. Botch looked like a good acquisition. As did Wells. As did Ritchie.

Great point about sweeping chosk. We sure didn't put away many teams when we had that opportunity this year. It just was a confusing, baffling, weird year. I truly wish we'd can both JM and KW. I think they are equally inept.

Hope Wally is the savior. Robbie yes; Willie no. Willie cannot hit. Robbie can hit .250.

Ritchie wasn't one of the best in the NL. I remember Baggs' posts on that topic. I don't want to argue, but KW has not assembled a tremendous team here. We are so slow afoot, we are weak defensively (weaker til Alomar came) and have no closer. In answer to your question about Koch ... Oakland's GM sure had a nice premonition in acquiring Foulke, didn't he? We would love to have Foulke now. How did Oakland's GM know Foulke would rebound?? If KW keeps Foulke, we have a closer.

Or move ahead to April 1, 2004. It's amazing with the new unbalanced schedule that we have sucked against Detroit and teams in our division the past few years. Maybe we'd be better off in the old system of playing everybody equal nos of times. We sure aren't gods against Cleve, KC and DET! and Minn.

Manuel must go, but so must KW. He acquired some good players, yes, but this team did have some holes, especially early with Rios, D'Angelo and Botch and Harris and last year Ritchie and Royce. Just for some of these moves, he must go, too. Does anybody in the know, know if we are gonna fire KW?

I might as well root for the A's for the reason you suggest. I never hated Foulke. Go Keith; go A's. KW and Manuel also both need to go. Reinsdork too but no need to discuss that. He's going nowhere. Hope the A's win it all and we try again with new GM and new skipper.

This one has been pretty disappointing cause of what the first poster said. I agree with most of it. But the team we started the season with was horrific on defense. Our Opening Day closer was pathetic. Mark B, Wright and Jon all sucked early. We have no team speed. So maybe we're not that good to begin with. The reason I'm so devastated is on paper we do have many more name players than the stiffs in this division. Also, Minn. was such a disappointment for so much of the season it is annoying the Twinks are gonna likely win it.

Jordan said: This team is pathetic. No it isn't. It's .500. Win one; lose one. The only good news is we will be rid of Manuel. who will likely go somewhere else and win a pennant. The bad news is we still have our owner and KW.

Maybe we'll lose all our games and finish .500. That would be fitting cause we're a .500 team.

We probably do need a new Jose for the future. We better make the right choice, however. Jose isn't as bad as a lot of the stiffs we've had play short in our franchise history. Caruso was probably the worst. Or Richard.

Our fans on this board are AWESOME.So many of you go to 30-40 game a year. Congrats. It ain't your fault. I do think Minnie's frontrunner fans will make sure we dont win a game in this series though.

I think we are jinxed. I'd say build with defense and pitching, but we've seen how the times we've made the playoffs our bats have died. I guess we keep cheering but I do think you are right. We are jinxed. I mean if we build with defense and pitching and speed and can't score, we're screwed too. I think a positive step would be to hire a stud manager. I can only think of one who would make a difference, Piniella, and he aint coming.

He's had a great year. With the way the Twins fans are acting, I mean get real, we're not going to win a game in the Dome. I don't care who is pitching. We let Minnie off the hook this year and they are packing the s***dome and making too much noise.

It's also a disgrace how we let the Twins off the hook this season. This wasn't going to be their year. They had dissention and sucked for long stretches, but we've had some horrific stretches of our own and let them stay in it. Now their fans get into it, the Twinks decide to wake up at the end, and it's curtains for us. They are treating this like the Series and I see little hope of winning any of these 3 games. I'm not giving up but it don't look good. If we don't win it, I hope the Royals do. f*** Minnesota.

that's why despite some good moves, KW must go as well as JM if we don't win the division.

If he or his agent want big bucks, let him walk. But I agree he's been very good for us. I'd love for him to be our starter next year. 2 years would be OK if he would accept a reasonable amount. If not, let him go to Philly or the O's or some dumb ass team that overspends.

Excellent point again, bmr. Sad isn't it that we are gonna look back on this season and shake our heads that we didn't make the playoffs? It is amazing, really. I think we had the team to beat Minn, do you??

I like your post capn. Good stuff. Can we dump Botch without paying him?

Good point bmr, but I was hoping they'd lose some of em.

Folks, as a member of the media here I say don't blame Jon on this one. Read the story. Read the quotes. He was asked questions and answered them. I don't see him complaining. He's responding to questions and answering them honestly. What's wrong with that? I want a competitor on my team if I owned a team.

This really sucks. the Twins are taking advantage of their s*** schedule. We are in deep trouble, folks. That said, never say die.

This has definitely been a bizarre season. I would say if we don't make the playoffs it will have been a bitter disappointment even though we had some great wins and Frank hit some incredible bombs. Maybe we'll suck it up and win it, but we sure have sucked since that ninth inning debacle in game two vs. the Twins. I have not lost faith that we can win the division but if we don't win it I'd say JM deserves more blame than KW this time around. As usual with our team, we are going to have a lot of question marks for next year, that's why I wish we'd suck it up, win this division and bomb our way to a Series in the postseason. GO SOX. Just win it.

Many of you were right; I was wrong. You said last night's ninth inning near implosion because of JM pitching that stiff would kill our momentum. I did not agree. Looks like you were right. Will this be what we point to when all is said and done? Will putting Jose Paniagua in the game instead of wrapping up an easy 8-2 victory be our downfall?? Or will we have the balls to win the division anyway?