greg775

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 07:33 PM) The drama in this thread is hilarious. I feel like I walked into a planning session for a sorority ball. Drama? The Sox have lost 8 of 9 games and blew the season in that span. I feel like some people are forgiving them way too easily for this choke job. QUOTE (Cali @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 08:24 PM) If they were 10 games up, everyone was healthy and hitting/pitching and suddenly fell apart THAT is a collapse. This team kinda stumbled into a division race based on a very weak division. They never looked great but hung on do to some good bounce back years and rookie pitchers stepping up. But the injury bug to some major vets and pictures getting gassed and the the Tigers finally playing better ball has lead to this situation. This is just a tight division race that they are gonna lose. Simple as that. No collapse, just gonna lose more games than the team in front of you. This sounds like the "give a trophy to them for trying" post. The Tigers playing better ball? We let them off the hook many many times by LOSING night in and night out. Tigers were begging to be put out of their misery.

I heard a clip from Paulie saying everybody was trying but it just isn't there. I thought adding a veteran like Youk to go with our other vets would prevent this exact form of collapse from happening. Story of this season is blowing opportunity after opportunity to leave Detroit in the Sox's wake, then utter collapse, giving it to Detroit on a platter the last couple weeks. As you all know, this wasted opportunity figures to bite us in the ass next season when Detroit actually rebounds from its lousy season and plays well. Seriously: We have some stud veteran players who this shouldn't be happening to: Peavy, Paulie, AJP, Youk, Dunn, even Hudson has experience in keeping a team loose ... WTF? This choke is out of the ordinary.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 01:44 PM) You can't fix injury and exhaustion. Who is exhausted on the team and why? The Sox really are getting off lightly, not getting called on this choke job. I known the team is beat up, but even Paulie every 50 or so at bats still whacks a home run. Exhausted?

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 12:49 AM) I still don't get why this is all insurance's fault? Why can't a group of docs just take care of his treatment for no cost, or for whatever he can pay? Your anger is at the insurance company not wanting to lose tons of money in this deal. I see none at doctors making tons of money in this deal, or drug companies making tons of money in this deal, or even the mom for putting him in that situation to begin with. She cares, but not enough to forgo the education a while longer so he can keep the affordable treatments. In short, why, to you, are the insurance companies savages, and not every one else who isn't willing to give up stuff for this kid? if the mom won't give up grad school, why should the insurance company give up profits? I CAN get mad at the mom. Ooooh, she made some calls. How about a real sacrifice and keep your job with benefits. No, she wants some other company to just pick up the slack for what SHE doesn't want to cover any more. I just think thanks to the politics of it, the insurance company gets made out to be the bad guy, and nobody else, even though there are other places where people/companies can give up stuff as well to help, but they don't. QUOTE (Y2HH @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 01:14 AM) This is the same thing I've been saying for years, but nobody pays attention. They're busy looking at the big green face in the smoke instead of the little man behind the curtains. The insurance companies aren't the ones sending the bills...your f***ing doctor is. For example, in the past 2 months, my wife had 3 "5 minute" doctor visits...the 5 minute part is NOT an exaggeration. Billed at over 600$ EACH. That's MORE than 1800$ in bills sent to insurance. For 15 minutes of work. Let me repeat that. For 15 minutes of "work". Do the math. You know what, let me do the math for you. That's MORE THAN 7200$ an hour. And the bill?! Who knows what it is they wrote down on it...but apparently in that 5 minutes they did 13 different things to the tune of over 600$ each visit. That damned insurance company#$!#@!%!@#$ QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 01:20 AM) Knee surgery, my friend. $6k for surgicenter, total time in the place 6 hours with 4 of it knocked out in recovery.. $6k for the surgeon, for an hour surgery. $1k for the anestesia guy, however you spell that. $1.8k for a surgical 'assistant'. 4 doc visits prior to the surgery, all 4 totaling less than 10 minutes actual time (like you, seriously not kidding on the time) with the doc, $220 EACH visit. MRI at $700. PT, 9 visits at $95 per visit. Had follow up visit this morning, longest visit so far, 4 minutes, I timed it. $220. But insurance is the bad guy here? Great posts. They have given me some things to consider, but my point is this kid couldn't get insurance from a real company. I think, yes, that does qualify our society as savages. Maybe the mom is sort of a culprit. I never considered that much. Your posts are very thought provoking, but look, most people who have insurance use the insurance. Why can't this kid get coverage from a reputable company? Cause our society is f***ed is my opinion.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 05:34 AM) This. I've tried not to get emotionally attached too much this year...just always seemed getting your guts ripped out was around the corner. Call me a fair weather fan if you want...but it's saved me from kicking my dog and being pissed off (I'll save that for the Bears this year). It does suck that Detroit has basically sucked ass this year tho. Now watch...they'll go on an epic run like the Cardinals last year. Now that would be a kick in the balls... I never was a believer in the team, but I think the first time we build the record to 10 or 12 over .500, whatever it was, I thought there was a chance we could be a 20 over .500 team and that would run away with the division. I never got attached to the team, but that hasn't helped my anger issues regarding the team's collapse. Too much boneheaded baseball and stranding-of-runners baseball has driven me insane.

Soxnews, great post, but there's one problem ... our team. In the past month or so, it can't beat pretenders; it can't beat contenders. It's done.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 06:38 AM) I don't get the Alexi hate. He and Rios have been very good all year. Stink spreads on this team, they were sure to follow. People like to pick on the guys who bat at the bottom of the order while making excuses for PK by saying he's hurt. The turning point in the game was AJ's K with the bases loaded. Right now you would probably get out the same production batting ALexi and Gordon 3rd, 4th as you would Dunn and PK. I just meant it was ironic that Lexi smashes a perfect single up the middle at that point. The Sox have needed hits like that with men on base for weeks now.

In answer to your question, HELL NO. We have zero chance. That ship has sunk.

QUOTE (Melissa1334 @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:38 AM) Im pretty much done with alexei as some people here. Great defense and thats it. Hes so fustrating at the plate. I wonder if we can trade him amd somehow get andrus. I think hes a real good , smart player. They have profar and no where to put him besides his position at ss because of beltre and kinsler That hard single up the middle by Lexi with two outs in the seventh inning I believe it was, made me laugh. We've needed a hard single like that with runners in scoring position for weeks now. He lashes one with two outs and nobody on. Hilarious.

QUOTE (Cali @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:54 AM) Never had that big of a lead or that great of a record for this to be the worst ever. Sucks for sure but this team never really clicked on all cylinders on a consistent enough basis for this to really sting. You never got the feeling watching these guys play that they were world beaters. Just some real good timing: a struggling Detroit team helped. Also major comeback years from Dunn Rios and Peavy with some timely hitting and solid pitching... But it faded down the stretch. Also, the team had zero expectations going into the season, that dulls the lack of playoffs. They played with house money in a weak ass division. Not epic by any stretch of the imagination. Thing is, you said it "faded down the stretch." I think it did more than that. It collapsed. Or choked for those who prefer that word. I mean the team has lost 8 of 9 with more agony sure to come.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:36 AM) If you need media to get you fired up...then we need an entire clubhouse of new players. To me, all that stuff is just noise, I don't think that fires anyone up. Looking at the standings should be enough, and again if it isn't...then there are major issues. I just think the media affects fan perception, nothing inside the locker room. Anytime you don't win the world series (or at least the division) it's never a great season. Expectations in March don't mean anything when it's August and September and you are in it. It's all irrelevant. This season is a disappointment because of where they were at, and how they finished it. The people who want to look back on March expectations just want to feel happy about everything and pass out trophies like it's t-ball. That's just their coping mechanism and a way to give the Sox a pass. Great post. I was thinking of the T-ball analogy myself but couldn't express it correctly. The Sox are definitely getting a pass for horrendous choking. That eighth inning today was par for the course of late. Man on, failed bunt, whiff. Then that baserunning mistake of all mistakes. Right on cue ... boom, Tampa home run. I still think the media can wake up a clubhouse. Remember how mad AJ and Ozzeroo would get at Mariotti? You guys don't like distractions. Sometimes the distractions I believe helped our team.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:27 AM) Good post. I've been wondering where the media outrage has been as well. Sox are going to get let off easy. I'm tired of the posts saying that this was a great season because we exceeded expectations. We didn't, first off, if the other thread is any indication. Second, when you're three up with fourteen to play, the expectation is to win. That's a much greater and important expectation and it's looking like we blew it. I like the emergence of Sale and De Aza, and you hope some of the other young guys you can depend on, but it doesn't look like that will be a trade off with our veterans getting older/moving on Yes, I mean we've lost 8 of 9. What if it was 9 in a row? That would be downright ludicrous. Nobody's paying attention, however, which is fine. Less national embarrassment I guess. But this team does deserve to get ripped.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:24 AM) I don't think the media matters as much as you do, just my take. Let's face it, the Sox are irrelevant compared to the Cubs, and now you have the Bears going, etc. Plus the people on this board will remember it with or without media coverage, so it's a different crowd you're addressing on here. Very true. But if Mariotti was out there calling us chokers every day, it would have been addressed in the clubhouse and maybe just maybe some life would have been instilled in our zombie-like ballclub. Robin would have had to address it at least. And our veterans. Truly they should be embarrassed. They won't say that, though, they'll say we're still in it until mathematically eliminated and have to take care of business, etc.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:17 AM) I don't describe it as a choke because to me that means you were up 5-6 games etc and let it go. This is just...sucking. I don't know how to describe it. They are just failing to compete at this point. We've lost 8 of 9 with the only win Dunn's two bomb performance. We are only 2 out after losing all those games. That's a huge choke. Huge IMO. Nobody's biting on my comments on the media ... but I think a lot of people's perceptions of this choke job would change if we had an outlandish columnist in town really letting the Sox have it.

I think it's the second most disappointing end of a season in White Sox history. If you check the history books, I believe the 67 or 69 White Sox had control and went to Kansas City and lost a doubleheader to one of the worst teams in baseball history. The Sox had Peters and Horlen pitching both ends and lost both games. The Sox went on to lose the AL title to Boston or Detroit or somebody the history books tell us. This season is the biggest choke job in Sox history. Nobody will notice or care, however, cause Mariotti is gone and Cowley isn't writing anymore. I listen to Les Grobstien every night and he keeps repeating that nobody thought the Sox would be any good and they didn't choke. I wish Mariotti was still here cause he would have feasted on this choke and perhaps his swarmy words would have angered our Sox so much well maybe they could have beaten KC a few games that would have made a world of difference. Maybe they would have rallied against the media "not believing in us." Instead everybody's been nice in the media watching this train wreck. Keep patting the White Sox on the back pundits ... this was a major choke job. No question. Biggest choke job with the only one rivaling it the aforementioned one in the 60s. Comments? p.s. to those people who think i'm a troll, don't posts like this suggest i know my white sox history? Trolls don't know this team like Greg knows this team.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 05:04 AM) He hasn't exactly had a stacked deck to use, but he's made some really stupid decisions this month. I felt like early on he stayed out of the way and didn't do too much, now it's the fact that he has 60 guys on the bench and no clue how to actually use them. Whether the moves work or not, you still have to make the logical move beforehand and lately he just hasn't. Exactly. Like a good manager, like a manager of the year candidate, he seemed to stay out of the way as the pitchers worked deep into games and the players played. Coinciding with our pitchers struggling to go five innings, he became a mad mixer and matcher, a diabolical scientist of a manager and that sucked. I hope next year he goes back to getting out of the way, cause he made way too many moves and many sucked.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:53 AM) For the rest of time you can bring up 2012 and it's not going to bring positive memories, just pain and anguish for me. QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:54 AM) Reasons I think Sox are in better position now than a year ago: - Dunn proved that he didn't forget how to play the game of baseball, meaning his contract wasn't an absolute waste going forward - Manto was able to make Rios into a good player again - Chris Sale proved he can be a very good starter in the majors - Good experience for Reed and Jones (Jones was never even expected to be in the big leagues this year) - Quintana came out of nowhere and gives you hope he can be a 5th starter. Santiago started the year as closer, failed, and then showed some promise as a possible starter - ADA proved he can be a very solid player, and gives us the best all-around leadoff hitter the Sox have had in a long time - Ventura proved he knows how to motivate the players and create a good environment in the clubhouse. The biggest setback was Morel looking like he's not MLB caliber, causing the Sox to have to scramble to find a 3B this year and in the future. Good post. Those are some bright spots, but not that many. But how bout looking at the team in bunches: Offense as a whole; pitching as a whole; defense as a whole. Considering we are losing Peavy, Youk and AJ, please comment on if you think the Sox are in better position than a year ago. Answer this simply: Are the Sox a .500 team entering next season if we pick up say a Guthrie to replace Jake and go with our young starters to fill out the rotation?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:39 AM) The biggest lead was 3 1/2 games, and tonight marks the biggest deficit, passing the 1 1/2 margin after the first sweep in Detroit. Never in control. It felt in control after we finally beat DET and had a 3 game lead. Never in control, but there were so many series when we were playing KC and Detroit on the other side of the ledger was sucking. We'd lose but the optimists would always point out that we were still in first place and Detroit wasn't very good. We relied on Detroit not being good for so long. At some point you have to play winning baseball. All those games you guys mentioned; all those epic failures. Can any Sox fan deny we should have been at least 7 games up at some point. Hey, we saved a good man's job, though. Leyland now is safe.

I'd give him a grade of B for the season. I don't think that's too harsh. Maybe even a B-plus. Sox are going to miss his innings, no doubt about it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:45 AM) The Sox are in a much better position going forward into the future now as opposed to a year ago. How so? Are you convinced Q and Santiago are major league caliber starters? They've looked like 4-5 inning wonders of late. If you truly think they have the tools, I'll trust you. I believe you know talent. I'm not convinced. And I'm not convinced Jones is a special reliever. I think Reed can close. We have no third baseman, a lousy hitting second baseman. We have an aging first baseman who could have future injury concerns. Our young leftfielder is a question mark suddenly. Or do you think Viciedo is a certain star? DeAza's tailspin puts in question how good he is. Rios is Rios. AJ is aging. Why do you think this team looks good for the future? It's a little bit better than a .500 team right now as we speak and is losing an innings eater as for the second year in a row we lose innings eaters from our staff. I think an infield of Morel, Lexi, Becks and an aging Paulie is average at best. Our outfield is average at best. Our starting staff is average at best. Our team next year: Upside of 10 over .500; downside of 15 below .500.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:44 AM) Seems like the organization is too outfield heavy. They need to address 3b and C. It doesn't look like the FA market is the solution. We need 2 starting pitchers. Who we gonna get? That is the big question.

QUOTE (Baron @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:40 AM) Think of where people had us before the season. I bet half the people on this board wouldnt be posting if this team was playing like they were expected to. A lot of people on this board pointed out we still had a lot of veterans and if a lot of things went well, the team would not suck. Look at our rotation entering the season: It added Peavy and had a healthy Danks. Not everybody on soxtalk thought the team would be horrible.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:27 AM) Weird, but this is still doable. Didn't Detroit have a 3 game lead with 4 to play a few years ago? Ginger it is not doable. Tampa is gonna win a minimum of 3 this series, though I still think we are going to win the Cleveland series. That's very Sox-like. Once we are out of it, we'll have a very solid series in Cleveland. I think we lose 3 or all 4 to TB then win 2 of 3. Detroit is not going to choke vs. Minnie and KC. Not at this stage. Detroit's fat cats got to loaf most of the season and win it at the end. That's what high-payroll teams do during their down seasons. The problem is next year they might be interested in playing well the first 2-3 months and we could be out of it in June. QUOTE (Baron @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:35 AM) I acknowledged that yesterday. I actually like the uncertainty. Our rotation will be Sale, Floyd, Danks, Q and Santiago. Yuk. Does anybody really believe that is the rotation of a .500 team? No way. And who starts before Danks is ready? Omigrosso? We could be out of it after six weeks. What free agent pitchers can we get to replace Peavy? We need 2 of 'em. Seriously ... who are the candidates to join our staff? Don't say Guthrie. He is NO GOOD.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:24 AM) Well, at least most of Soxtalk is happy. They predict bad play all season and all game and they finally get it! Are you serious? Get a clue. Can you fathom this fact?: We WANT the White Sox to win. Many of us are furious the team has choked (that eighth inning debacle) and has played like a bunch of morons much of the second half. It's one thing getting beaten out by Detroit; it's another going through this bulls***. Our baseball team has given the division to an underachieving Detroit team that will probably bury us by June next year because Detroit probably will play to its potential after a down season. QUOTE (Baron @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 04:25 AM) Exactly....just waiting for the people to say we need to blow up the entire team. Start with a clean slate. Team has a lot of roster work to do. Losing Peavy will decimate the pitching staff. Q, Humber and Santiago have a lot to prove. Peavy throws meat many times but the loss of his innings pretty much guarantees us to NOT be contenders unless we pick up an innings eater. And Guthrie will not be the answer. We need a good starting pitcher to replace Peavy. Also Youk is likely gone and we have no third baseman. We wasted career years from Rios and AJP who could regress. Sox are in a heap of uncertainty moving forward. THIS WAS OUR YEAR.

LOL. 8 over .500 with six games to go. Losing all six would put us at a Sox-like two over .500 for the season. To summarize that game ... Bases loaded two innings in a row with less than two outs and we get one run because they hit Viciedo with a pitch. Or did we get 2 runs. Whoopie. In a tie game we get a runner on with nobody out and can't put a bunt down and we have a pinch runner make a Little League mistake for the weirdest double play ever. Hopefully next year we will be in the same position as this year, stay a little bit healthier as a team, and not choke. p.s. Thanks Royals, you got your wish. Detroit wins the division, not your hated White Sox. Congrats, you ruined our season by beating us and nobody else and also laying down vs. the Tigers 4 straight.