LDF

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:34 PM) Trade our pitching surplus of prospects for hitting prospects yes i agree, but that is not this discussion.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:34 PM) Just to note again, Catcher is actually the position where the Sox have their 2nd highest fWAR. Tyler Flowers has more fWAR than any of our position player regulars other than Abreu. Maybe you think someone will improve next year at one of those positions, fine, but I certainly wouldn't say "we must find a catcher" or "finding a new catcher is more important than 3b, SS, OF, or 2b". catchers would be my ideal rtn but sale went to bat for flowers..... if not, i like a pkg that might be made from the yanks and sanchez.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:20 PM) To field a team to challenge other teams requires star talent at at least one position. We have pitchers, but only one DH who is particularly good. ok i am back for a little while. to compete and challenge other teams. maybe it is me that is not fully understanding what you meant. but the sox have at least 2 players who are star, well make that 1 player in Jose A. now i am not including the pitchers. now in this discussion, we are, to the best of my thought process, discussing puig and Q. no other players. so i can see trading a valuable asset in Q for puig. but that will limit the possibility of fixing the team. getting puig would be great for the fans, the press and ticket sales. but the baggage he carries..... nah

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:30 PM) How does that fill any of current needs at the MLB level? Feliz is the closest to MLB ready and he's probably a bullpen piece. Phillips is an outfielder..... Davis is in A+, we have a guy by the name of Trey Michalczewski who is producing at a similar clip than him and 2 years younger. Nottingham is 20 years old and is 3 years away.... Give me the proven stud in Puig.... dang it..... i gots to go, but i will come back to this, believe you me, i am. peace.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:22 PM) Why not get a proven player that has already shown signs of stardom than 2-3 unknowns? and how would you fix the holes .... more dumpster diving???? try to regurgitate old players to maybe be some what productive.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:27 PM) Yes, I'm a soothsayer. Or, I assume most prospects will never succeed in the big leagues. and that is baseball. so teams get 3 or 4 prospects for every success. but this team is void. the thing is they need to fill the void and fine tune it later.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:17 PM) So we should only trade Q if we can plug all of our holes with him? I don't understand. If we traded Quintana for Mike Trout we'd still have a bunch of holes, should the Sox not do that trade? i if the sox are trading a cost control for how many yrs and est #2 pitcher..... yes.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:18 PM) LDF, give me a trade proposal for Q that would address some but not all holes? dang it, i really have to go, esp when there is finally a great debate going on..... off the top of my head. q, putman to hous. flexi, phillips, davies 3-b, and nottingham with flezi being the wildcard. it would be nice, but well.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:17 PM) No he couldn't. and how do you know for sure. are you a soothsayer???

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:15 PM) Nobody is saying it will. My position is that I would rather get a slam dunk at one position than a bunch of prospects at a few positions. Get the slam dunk, sort out the rest later. Again, to the room, I feel compelled to acknowledge that Q + Danks for Puig is so lopsided in the Sox' favor that it wouldn't happen anyway. and i nice way to look at the future of the team. this was done many time in todays real world. the economy.... but i am disgressing. the sox needs help. 1 player will not fix it.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:14 PM) Getting honest to god elite talent from a position player is a nice return for Q. I have no confidence in us correctly judging minor league hitters and getting them to big leagues. I have every confidence we will field a great pitching staff for next 4-5 years. and that will help, if the sox needed that one player. but outside the pitching, how would you address the rest of the positions that needs to be address??

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:12 PM) Our corner outfielders are terrible. We have a -2.0 fWAR from our corner outfielders this year, RF and LF combined. That is solidly the worst in baseball, the Phillies are next at -1.2. Only 4 teams in baseball are negative. Hell, we are easily the worst OF in baseball when you combine our CF spot also being the worst. Maybe you think one of those guys will do better next year, maybe they all will, but until that happens it's fair to say the White Sox have the worst outfield in baseball. Hands down, not even close. those stats while true are an after thought. i can't argue against stats. but i will debate moving an asset to get Puig and leaving the holes unaccounted for. this team first needs to be able to field a team to challenge the other teams. then it can fine tune the other parts. this trade, whether others agree or not, will expose the team with more problems.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:08 PM) Answer the inverse. Show me a Q trade that plugs them all. now show me how trading for Puig will plug those holes???? i am flipping this to you.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:08 PM) Answer the inverse. Show me a Q trade that plugs them all. i Q will not net a rtn of where all holes gets plug.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:04 PM) You figure it out. You've just saved $14 dumping Danks, that's a start. You're not gonna plug all those holes trading Q on his own anyway. You'll probably get back one very good prospect and some other stuff. Again, a bunch of Maybes. b-ball is a bunch of maybe's .... look at the b-ball draft. a bunch of maybes. there is no certainties. unless you trade a known player for know players.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:01 PM) No one said getting Puig instantly plugs all of our holes. and i agree, but puig is not the player and or position that needs help. lets say this, puig comes to the sox, the sox have more holes in the rotation, and the sox have 5 players for 4 position. 3 -of 1-dh

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:00 PM) Great, one hole has been filled. Now the Sox only need to fill 3B, C, SS, 2B and two starting pitchers but hey, they would have Puig. How do the Sox fill those holes now that one of their top assets are gone? i hate to ruin anybodies parade, but the sox doesn't need help in the outfield. so why add to that and let the other holes go untouched.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 08:00 PM) Great, one hole has been filled. Now the Sox only need to fill 3B, C, SS, 2B and two starting pitchers but hey, they would have Puig. How do the Sox fill those holes now that one of their top assets are gone? i hate to correct you but it is 3 sp's.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 07:59 PM) Losing Danks isn't really creating a hole in the rotation. He already is a hole. and until the sox buys him out, he gets the ball every 5 game. whether anyone likes it or not.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 07:52 PM) You take a kid already at some prospects age with 2 years experience already with success over "prospects that deepen the farm" everyday of the week. and you dig a hole in the starting rotation. let alone if he will maintain his level of play. also throw in his attitude that has been documented. too much. you take an asset that can provide mlb ready prospects to continue to build the team. according to the sox FO, this is a 3yr plan.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 07:48 PM) The Sox need hitters throughout the organization so taking one of your top three assets and combining it with your worst asset to get one hitter is a good idea? Meanwhile the Sox as an organization are still devoid of hitters so what do the Sox do to get more hitters? Trade Sale? Come on Sox fans, think this through. i would also add, if you don't mind. the sox are giving up 2 PITCHING assets and no pitching coming back. shark - unsure him coming back Q - traded Rodon- starter Dank - traded Sale - ace / starter. that is 2 known sp's starting the next season.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 07:39 PM) Come on man, if you can get Puig for Q and Danks you take it and run. i just don't know..... i can see the talent and the hoopla about him, but i don't trust him to do what is needed to maintain his skill level. and i am making this disclaimer of my bias of not liking Puig.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 06:18 PM) He has an elite tool that doesn't exist in this system, not surprised people were excited. Granted, thinking the sox could turn someone who couldn't hit into a hitter when we turn players who can hit into crap is somewhat amusing. sweet......

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 06:20 PM) Imo, since Daily is raking it does make sense to move him up to challenge him, so to speak. He won't really get much better facing inferior competition. and i can understand your point. this is on me and my apprehension rushing prospects thru the system. i would really like to see him and the several others who doing great get accumulated in this, the intro to the big leagues. then the next step is the natural progression based on their performance. well..... remember what i always says...... what in hades do i know.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 06:13 PM) Hahn said this morning on the Score that he expected Sale to be starting on Sunday, with Rodon and the additional rest/blister issue pushed back to next week. Some dudes were calling in crucifying the Sox for not starting Sale today and trying to sweep the doubleheader, knowing that 2-2 probably won't do in terms of pushing them into a position where they can justify adding pieces. Did say one funny thing...that the only untouchable 23 they ever had was not Robin Ventura but someone who played for the Bulls, in response to a question about the possibility of dealing Chris Sale, and that they listen to any and all offers on every player until the point where an offer becomes too good to pass up. Really didn't seem committed one way or the other...which is understandable but not where any GM wants to be this close to the deadline. Also said they would be much less inclined to deal a player in the division (although the Avi Garcia example came up) and had no issue trading with the Cubs, as the idea of limiting your market further by not including them was counter-intuitive to the team's best interests long-term. Finally, mentioned how hard it was to both develop and compete at the same time and that rebuilding on the fly wasn't the most popular approach compared to the Cubs, Astros, Twins or big market spending teams. real nice .....