southsideirish

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 10:31 PM) Sorry to dissapoint you, but season ticket holders already have cubs/sox tickets. So I am already set. Dont trip over yourself while you are backtracking ok? Yeah, I definatley think that the sox are going to trade for a starting SS who is not as good as the cheap on that they have, and have expressed extreme confidence in. And then sit down the better player as well, because Ozzie happened to coach on the same team as the guy. It definatley seems like a move that KW (the Gm of the year in many peoples eyes) would perform. I mean, it displaces a better player, hurts our payroll, and probably gets rid of a decent prospect in the meantime. Yes, sounds good. :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead Usually teams dont trade for another teams starter, who is not as good as their current player, and then sit the better player down. Seriously, who does this? But I see your logic. Uribe>>>>>>>Alex Gonzalez now you know, and learning is half the battle. Thanks for playing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 08:49 PM) Are you nuts? Why would you move the best shortstop in the AL?, thats right, he deserved the GG more than anyone else. And now you are talking about putting him on the bench? Are you kidding me? Where do you get off calling yourself a sox fan while you know nothing about this team? Please tell me where Uribe deserves to get moved from starting to being a sub? Please enlighten us all. And me and you can put down a gentlemans bet that if uribe starts at SS for the sox next year you owe me cubs/sox tickets and vice versa. Your theories are unfounded and ridiculous, I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul. The sox have NO need for furcal or Gonzalez for that matter. We have a young, cheap, GG caliber SS who is one of the leaders of this team. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry it took me so long to get back and post to you. I was looking up the best place to get you some valium. Seriously though. Where did I say that I wanted to replace him. I said that is what I think Ozzie wants and what the Sox will do. Did I say I agreed? No, I just said what I think they will do. It makes the team very deep. I remember during the trade deadline that there were rumors of Alex Gonzalez coming here. I don't remember exactly, but I believe Alex Gonzalez had some favorable comments about Ozzie and that he would like to play for him. Now can you please point out to me where I said that I wanted this to happen or that I think it should happen? Where did I say that I agreed with such a move? I just gave an opinion on what I think will happen. That is all. Now calm down little guy. You can go on with your bad self and buy your own Cubs/Sox tickets for yourself and your boyfriend. Don't worry about me. By the way, you are definitely not a bigger Sox fan than I am. I am not saying I am bigger than you, but don't ever claim that I am not. Instead, why don't you try reading EXACTLY what is there instead of reading into things that aren't. Nice chatting with you.

Personally I believe Ozzie thinks Rafael Furcal would be the ideal SS. However, I think we will go after Alex Gonzalez from the Marlins to play SS. Gonzalez has a cannon for an arm and has more range than Uribe. His base stealing is not very good, but maybe Ozzie and Rock Raines can change that. Uribe will then be moved to our supersub position. I think this move will make Willie Harris expendable. We will keep Ozuna around for his speed and ability to play corner OF positions as well as all the infield positions.

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 07:37 PM) Good point. I recently read that while the rest of the Braves players were celebrating with champagne, he sat alone in another room. Later a few ran into his room and sprayed him water and pop I think. I don't want to read too much into that, but I'd say his problems are real. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Didn't the same thing happen with Willie Harris. Willie Harris is allergic to Champagne.

QUOTE(Whitesoxfan56 @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 06:34 PM) Thats a great problem to have. That would give you multiple options which is never a bad thing <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are not answering the question. Where would he play? Who is he replacing? Pods? Rowand? Dye?

QUOTE(Steff @ Nov 8, 2005 -> 05:57 PM) Lyle has a great speaking voice.... and he played the game. Side note.. John & family moved into their new pad in the western burb's over the weekend.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What does this mean? Where is his career headed? I really liked listening to the way he called a game. I sure hope he is not going North.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 06:00 PM) Did you guys go trick-or-treating together? Did he let you drive? I'm SORRY.....I had to......I just HAD to...... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah did he let you drive? That was a good question. Did he let you play with the radio? But trick or treating? Come on, he must have been in his late 20s. He is not trick or treating. That is a bad question. Hey not many people know that Albert Belle is extremely smart. He received scholarship offers to go to both Notre Dame and LSU ACADEMICALLY. I believe he has an accounting degree from LSU, but I am not sure about that.

QUOTE(Steff @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 05:58 PM) Yes. He is. Yes. No. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HA HA! He always looked angry.

QUOTE(Fingish @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 02:13 PM) I think a good cheap option to fill in some speed is Kenny Lofton. Left Handed, high OBP(.395), good speed (22SB/3CS), tons of experience. He is at a stage in his career where he only expects 250-350 AB's, he would be a great replacement for Timo. I know this isn't exactly what Ozzie wanted, he's probably looking for a full-time player to bat #2, and I have a sneaky feeling we will see both Anderson and Borchard on this team, which would make getting another OF out of the question. But if one of those guys get's moved, Lofton would be a great addition, and if Pods got banged up like he did in the 2nd half this year, Lofton is a proven lead-off hitter who could slip right in there without us losing too much. I know that this isn't a likely signing at this point, too crowded in the outfield at the moment, but Lofton has always been a great player, seems to end up on winning teams a lot, has tons of experience, is left-handed, fits the mold of what this team is about, and should come fairly cheap. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why would any White Sox fan want Kenny Lofton? I don't know if those rumors about him being a Cub fan is the reason why he played horrible here, but I do remember him here. I thought the reason KW traded him was because he was a selfish player. I remember the play where he was asked to sacrifice bunt a guy over. Instead of just getting the bunt down he was trying to bunt for a base hit. He bunted foul on a third strike and was out without moving the runner over. That is selfish. Instead of just getting it down and giving himself up for the team he was trying to get one down for a hit, EVEN ON A 2 STRIKE COUNT!! Steff you dated Albert Belle? I heard he is very smart. Is it true that he is an Eagle Scout? Was he angry a lot?

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 28, 2005 -> 05:09 PM) BTW, the reason people think Furcal is Cubs bound is that his agent is Aramis Ramirez's agent, and the Braves supposedly won't be able to re-sign him. They're considered the heavy favorite to sign Furcal. Also, I'd rather have Uribe for 3 million than Alex Gonzalez for 7 million. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not only do they have the same agent, but they are supposedly very good friends.

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Aug 28, 2005 -> 03:33 PM) Julio Lugo is another option. He only signed a 1 year deal with TB, is batting .297, has 32 SB's, and is a decent fielder. SS and 3B are the weakest batting positions for the Sox, so depending on how this season turns out will determine what direction they go. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No one wants Julio Lugo because he doesn't fit with this team. He can't play defense and that is a huge part of what this team is all about.

The Crazy Crackers

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Aug 23, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) On a related note, did I miss something with this trade? Curtis Martin is my number 2 back behind Jamal Lewis (first pick was Moss). This guy obviously wanted Curtis badly. He made a couple of offers that I probably would have accepted, but I didn't check my E-Mail for a while. Turns out that was very fortunate. The deal I finally accepted, which was just processed: I get: Chris Chambers Rudi Johnson Kevin Jones I give up: Curtis Martin I'm still trying to figure this one out, because both backs I got were taken before Martin and are probably better options. Is it just me, or did I get the deal of the year? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is unreal. That guy is an idiot. Did everyone approve of it in your league? That deal would be killed by the remaining owners in my league.

I heard this on another station as well, but I can't remember where. It was earlier this morning. They said that the Griffey Jr. trade is not only back on but HOT as hell. They have agreed on the players involved (maybe Brian Anderson? his night last night may have made believers of some) in the trade and the WHITE SOX have agreed to pay even more of Junior's salary. If Griffey will agree to come here and Linder signs off on the deal we can see Griffey as early as Monday. This would be absolutely unreal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE(chimpy2121 @ Aug 27, 2005 -> 04:27 PM) Alright, I just picked up Larry Johnson and dropped a kicker. This is a Yahoo Public league, 10 teams, standard scoring. It was also a auto-draft but I did pre-rank. I attached the draft results so you could analyze a little bit more. Are there any other moves you suggest I do? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If it is my team I try to pick up the following players: Pick up QB David Carr RB Mewelde Moore RB Travis Henry TE Ben Troupe I just don't know who you would drop. The only players that I can see that you would really want to drop is Kleinsasser, a kicker, maybe caldwell, maybe Plummer. Caldwell and Plummer are not really players you just want to drop. Maybe you can trade them to teams that like them for a player you need at RB, WR, or TE. Maybe try to pair Plummer and Bennett up and get a better player somewhere else.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Aug 27, 2005 -> 06:06 AM) Definitely a solid team. 8 out of 10. I'm not crazy about Caldwell but Wiggins is an underrated TE. Lots of yardage and TD's there! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you sure about that Wiggins comment? He has never had more than 4 TDs and last year's 700 yards was a fluke. They had to fill in for Moss somehow plus the loss of Kleinsasser for the entire year. They were spreading the ball around to Marcu Robinson, Wiggins, and Burleson. This year they have Burleson, Travis Taylor, Marcus Robinson, Troy Williamson, Jim Kleinsasser. Minnesota has never used the TE that much before last year. What makes you think they will start now? 700 yards is a lot for a TE, but it won't make or break your team. Not to mention Wiggins will not get that many yards again. 4 TDs is not a lot at all and I would be surprised if he matched that.

QUOTE(chimpy2121 @ Aug 27, 2005 -> 05:38 AM) QB D. Brees (SD - QB) - 9th WR C. Johnson (Cin - WR) -3rd WR J. Horn(NO - WR) -4th WR M. Muhammad (Chi - WR) - 7th RB P. Holmes (KC - RB) - 1st RB D. Davis (Hou - RB) -2nd TE J. Wiggins (Min - TE) - ? BN M. Bennett (Min - RB) - 6th BN J. Plummer (Den - QB) - 10th BN P. Burress (NYG - WR) - 11th BN R. Caldwell (SD - WR) - 12th BN J. Kleinsasser (Min - TE) ? K S. Graham (Cin - K) - 13th BN J. Carney (NO - K) - 14th DEF Carolina (Car - DEF) Right now I got a pending move of picking up T. Jones and dropping Kleinsasser (I dont need two Minn TEs) and I plan on dropping a kicker when I find out if Graham will be ready in time for the season. Anyone got any suggestions? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would need to know more about your scoring and what exaclty you have to start to fairly rate your team. However, this is how I look at it. QB- I am not a huge fan of either Brees or Plummer as my starting fantasy QB. That seems to be a big hole for you. RB- You have Priest Holmes but did not draft Larry Johnson? This could be a huge mistake. Priest is an absolute monster when healthy, but if you don't have Larry Johnson to back him up you could have just wasted a 1st round pick. Dominick Davis is a very good #2 back. Michael Bennett is a waste. You should at least pick up Mewelde Moore to back him up. He is always hurt. All three of your RBs are not durable at all. WR- Chad Johnson and Joe Horn are very good 1 and 2. Mushin Muhammed? Why? Plaxico may be good so if he was a late round pick that was a good pick. Reche Caldwell could be a good one, but it is just too early to tell. TE- Even though you need are starting 2 WRs you still need a TE? I have never seen that before. Both of your TEs are very mediocre and on the same team. That doesn't seem likea good situation. There are at least 10 better than Wiggins in any format. Gates, Gonzalez, Crumper, Witten, Dallas Clark, Shockey, Heap, L.J. Smith, Jolley, Heath Miller, E. Johnson. I just don't understand this pick. I have seen drafts where Wiggins goes undrafted. K- Who cares. I can't really tell how you drafted. 1) Priest Holmes 2) Dominic Davis 3) Chad Johnson 4) Joe Horn 5) This is where your draft seemed to have taken a turn for the worst. I can't tell who you would have taken in the 5th round and below as they all seem kinda like later round picks. The 2 QBs you took usually last until the last couple rounds of the draft. You have a nice 4 with Holmes, D. Davis, Chad Johnson, and Joe Horn, but then it doesn't look like you have much. God forbig Priest goes down and you have to rely on Michael Bennett, who may be injured at that point too. Without seeing the other teams in your league and not knowing the scoring system it is hard to tell how good your team is. However I would give it a 5 our of 10 at best. You have too many holes and not enough assets to make a trade to fill them. You could be in for a long season.

QUOTE(AirScott @ Aug 27, 2005 -> 12:59 AM) I just figure I'll critque you're team. I would have stayed away from the Detroit guys (Williams and Jones) because there's not enough to go around. On second thought, Jones is a good decision, teams will always have to respect their passing game, so the only selection I have a problem with is Williams. still, Collins will make or break your team, because like Bill Simmons' column said today, Collins' always has the highest ceiling and lowest basement. but having Randy Moss should make Collins look a little like Peyton Manning this year. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you for your critique. I understand your concern for Roy Williams, but did you see him play last year? He was a stud when healthy as a rookie. Kevin Jones outperformed every running back in the 2nd half last year as a rookie. Why is there not enough to go around? There is not enough to go around between a starting RB and a number 1 WR in an offense? I find this hard to beleive. Roy Williams is clearly the best WR on that team and I don't even count on Charles Rogers staying healthy the whole season or Mike WIlliams making that big of an impact as a rookie. I think those 2 Detroit guys are the least of my concern. I am more worried about my 3rd receiver spot than anything. I am hoping one of Plaxico or McCairens comes through or I am able to trade one of my RBs for a stud WR. Kerry Collins may or may not make or break my team. I just can't see another QB after McNabb was taken with as much going for him as Collins does. You can read above why I think Collins will be very good this year. I don't see how Collins has the lowest basement. I see Vick as this type of player. I think Collins will either be very good or just mediocre, not even close to terrible. Bill Simmons is usually wrong in every argument he tries to make. He just likes to blab. That being said he had him listed at 35 and I got him at 60. He had him as the 4th best QB and I drafted him as the 8th best. I think I got a great deal and picked up much better players instead of wasting a higher pick on a QB. I was able to pick up LT, Kevin Jones, Terrell Owens, Roy Williams, and Cadillac Williams while others were grabbing QBs.

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 26, 2005 -> 09:03 AM) By the way, are you Hawk Harrelson? Would you rather have Aaron Rowand over Ken Griffey? But seriously, have you been watching Crede at the plate the past two seasons? I just don't see how anyone could defend him. His bat is so bad that he is a defensive replacement in my mind. I would never wish injury on anyone but sadly, if Crede is hurt and Blum replaces him full-time at 3rd base it would actually be an improvement to the bottom of our lineup. Joe Crede: .251 career AVG | .300 career OBP Geoff Blum: .253 career AVG | .316 career OBP And Blum was brought here to be a BACKUP 3rd baseman! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You know this team is built on defense and pitching. Giving up a great defensive 3rd baseman in Crede to get a 3rd baseman that can't field for crap would be a terrible decision. I would rather have Rowand in center than Jr, but I would rather have Jr. to play primarily DH while giving all of our OFers a breather as well. Come one now man, if you have really been watching this team all year and the way they have been winning you should know that Bellhorn would be an awful fit for this team. Crede is a much better fit. Would I rather have a better bat to go with that great glove? Of course, but other than the top notch 3rd basemen, where are you going to find that?

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Aug 26, 2005 -> 04:49 AM) None of the teams exactly bowl me over. 9 looks pretty good if Lewis stays healthy. 8 IMO has the best starting RB's/WR's, although I'm not a huge fan of the backups, D, or kicker, and although I think Collin's numbers will improve with Moss, there are still better QB's. Team 6 has 2 good WR, Martin lead the league in rushing last season, I think he'll be passable at the other RB spot between Jones and Bennett, and Manning is a plus, although I'm not thrilled with the rest of the team. 3 looks to be another decent RB short of a solid team too, we'll see about the whole Denver backfield situation. 4 looks decent too if Jackson lives up to potential. 5 is okay too, but I don't like the depth, and Westbrook doesn't thrill me as a #2 back. So to summarize: 1- Team 9 2- Team 6 3- Team 8 4- Team 4 5- Team 3 Edit- missed the 75-25 TD's scoring. That leads me to push 8 over 6 because the guys on team 6 (outside of Manning) aren't exactly TD machines, while Tomlinson and Owens are. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree there are definitely better QBs than Collins. I couldn't understand why QBs were flying off the board so early, but that will also explain why I have the WRs and RBs that I have, which I think will put me over the top. Collins should be more than adequate and maybe even Leftwich can do something with those young WRs he has. 2 QBs in the first round when I picked LaDanian (1st overall) Manning went 2nd overall Culpepper went 10th overall 1 QB in the 2nd round when I picked Kevin Jones (20 overall) McNabb went 16th overall 1 QB picked in 3rd round when I picked Terrell Owens (21 overall) Brett Favre went 28th overall 2 QBs picked in the 4th round when I picked Roy Williams (40 overall) Trent Green went 32nd overall Tom Brady went 37th overall 1 QB picked in the 5th round when I picked Cadillac Williams (41 overall) Marc Bulger went 47th overall All of those QBs went way earlier than I had seen them go in any previous mock draft. I even had to take Kerry Collins earlier than I would have liked just because it didn't look lke I would have had anyone at all and he was the last one that I liked. I finally picked Kerry Collins with the last pick in the 6th round after 7 other QBs were picked. Is he the 8th best QB in the league? I would say with the addition of Randy Moss there is no doubt that he is at least the 8th best. I am scared of Hasselbeck with no WRs. Vick doesn't get many TDs. Palmer is a nice QB but still young. Delhomme is good but only has Steve Smith and an unproven Keary Colbert. I just think Kerry Collins could throw for a lot more TDs than those guys. I could be wrong, but we will see during the season how it plays out. (1) Peyton Manning - 2nd overall (2) Daunte Culpepper - 10th overall (3) Donovan McNabb - 16th overall WOW! (4) Brett Favre - 28th overall WOW! (5) Trent Green - 32nd overall, I can see this in a heavy TD scoring league, but still high (6) Tom Brady - 37th overall WOW!, I have never seen him drafted higher than the 6th round (7) Marc Bulger - 47th overall, I guess this is where he should go and I would have taken him if he was there when he came back around. I just couldn't pass up a back like Cadillac Williams at 41. I haven't seen a mock draft where he gets out of the 4th round and I got him with the first pick in the 5th. (8) Kerry Collins - 60th overall, which is where he should go in this format. I have seen him go higher and I have seen him drafted lower all depending on the format. I have a good feeling about him with Moss, Porter, Jordan, Gabriel and Curry to throw to. It should be a high flying offense. He didn't even play in the first 2.5 games last year and still threw for 3500 yards and 21 TDs. Add in the 2.5 games with those averages he had and he would have had 4150 and 24 TDs. Doesn't Moss add in at least 6 to 9 more TDs, if not more to his total? Just to show what an awesome WR can do for your totals, look at McNabb. He posted 500 more yards than his previous high and 6 more TDs than his previous high with Owens. That and the 2.5 more games would place Collins at the 4500 yard, 30 TD mark. Plus the Raider defense is awful and the Raiders play against some of the worst pass defenses in the league in KC, SD, and Denver. They will most likely be playing catch up against some weak pass defenses. Where does 4,000 yards and 30 TDs place a QB? Top 5? Top 3? (1) Manning - no one compares 4557 yards and 49 TDs (2) Culpepper - 4717 yards and 39 TDs. Stats should drop with the loss of Moss and as they go to more of a rushing and defense attack, but he is still very good. (3) McNabb 3875 yards and 34 OVERALL TDs. The 230 rushing yards doesnt help in this format. (5) Trent Green with 4591 yards and 27 TDs. (4) Favre with 4088 yards and 30 TDs. (6) Brady 3692 yards and 28 TDs. (7) Bulger 3964 yards and 21 TDs and has also never thrown for more than 22 TDs and has been working with a lot better options than Kerry Collins has over the years. (8) Collins, so again I ask, where would 4000 yards and 30 TDs place Collins? Top 3-5? It is very possible for him to reach those numbers.

QUOTE(knightni @ Aug 26, 2005 -> 03:22 AM) Team #9 1st, IMO. Team #4 2nd. Team #3 3rd. I take it that you are team #10. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am team number 8 and I really don't see how any of those teams are better than mine. Kerry Collins should throw plenty of TDs. LaDanian, Kevin Jones, Cadillac Williams, Ronnie Brown, Larry Johnson, and Mewelde Moore are without a doubt the best stable of RBs in the league. Terrell Owens, Roy Williams, Plaxico Burress, and Justin McCairens can match up with anyone's wideouts, and you don't need to fill the TE spot in this league. Buffalo Bills defense is a top defense. Kicker who cares. I really don't know what you are looking at to list 3 teams ahead of that one.

Please give me your opinion of who you think is the best team out of these 10. Thanks!!!!!!!! 75 percent TD 25 percent yardage. WR/TE flex position. TEAM 1 QB C. Palmer (CIN) WR N. Burleson (MIN) WR S. Smith (CAR) RB W. McGahee (BUF) RB A. Green (GB) W/T L. Evans (BUF) K S. Janikowski (OAK) DEF Carolina (Car - DEF) BN A. Johnson (HOU) BN C. Portis (WAS) BN C. Brown (TEN) BN L. Suggs (CLE) BN C. Pennington (NYJ) BN M. Robinson (MIN) TEAM 2 QB D. McNabb (Phi - QB) WR D. Bennett (Ten - WR) WR Ji. Smith(Jac - WR) RB E. James (Ind - RB) RB D. Staley (Pit - RB) W/T A. Gates (SD - TE) K M. Vanderjagt DEF Indianapolis (Ind - DEF) BN M. Vick (Atl - QB) BN Ro. Smith (Den - WR) BN R. Droughns(Cle - RB) BN C. Rogers (Det - WR) BN M. Alstott (TB - RB) BN R. Longwell (GB - K) TEAM 3 QB D. Culpepper(Min - QB) WR A. Boldin (Ari - WR) WR Mi. Clayton (TB - WR) RB C. Dillon (NE - RB) RB T. Bell (Den - RB) W/T T. Gonzalez (KC - TE) K A. Vinatieri (NE - K) DEF Atlanta (Atl - DEF) BN A. Brooks (NO - QB) BN J. Shockey BN D. Branch(NE - WR) BN M. Faulk (StL - RB) BN L. Tynes (KC - K) BN Tampa Bay(TB - DEF) Team 4 QB T. Green (KC - QB) WR M. Harrison (Ind - WR) WR J. Porter (Oak - WR) RB D. Davis (Hou - RB) RB S. Jackson (StL - RB) W/T A. Lelie (Den - WR) K J. Wilkins (StL - K) DEF Philadelphia (Phi - DEF) BN D. Foster (Car - RB) BN K. Barlow (SF - RB) BN S. McNair (Ten - QB) BN T. Heap (Bal - TE) BN R. Williams(Mia - RB) BN Ke. Johnson (Dal - WR) Team 5 QB B. Favre (GB - QB) WR T. Holt (StL - WR) WR D. Driver (GB - WR) RB D. McAllister (NO - RB) RB B. Westbrook (Phi - RB) W/T A. Crumpler (Atl - TE) K M. Stover (Bal - K) DEF New England (NE - DEF) BN J. Arrington (Ari - RB) BN S. Moss (Was - WR) BN T. Duckett (Atl - RB) BN T. Houshmandzadeh (Cin - WR) BN B. Griese (TB - QB) BN C. Cooley (Was - RB,TE) Team 6 QB P. Manning (Ind - QB) WR C. Johnson (Cin - WR) WR H. Ward (Pit - WR) RB C. Martin (NYJ - RB) RB M. Bennett (Min - RB) W/T E. Kennison (KC - WR) K N. Kaeding (SD - K) DEF New York (NYJ - DEF) BN F. Taylor (Jac - RB) BN R. Caldwell (SD - WR) BN D. Brees (SD - QB) BN T. Jones (Chi - RB) BN Da. Clark (Ind - TE) BN J. Harrington (Det - QB) Team 7 QB M. Hasselbeck (Sea - QB) WR J. Walker (GB - WR) WR D. Jackson (Sea - WR) RB S. Alexander (Sea - RB) RB R. Johnson (Cin - RB) W/T I. Bruce (StL - WR) K J. Reed (Pit - K) DEF Pittsburgh (Pit - DEF) BN L. Jordan (Oak - RB) BN L. Fitzgerald (Ari - WR) BN J. Plummer (Den - QB) BN D. Mason (Bal - WR) BN M. Anderson (Den - RB) BN M. Pittman (TB - RB) Team 8 QB K. Collins (Oak - QB) WR T. Owens (Phi - WR) WR Ro. Williams(Det - WR) RB L. Tomlinson (SD - RB) RB K. Jones (Det - RB) W/T P. Burress (NYG - WR) K M. Nugent (NYJ - K) DEF Buffalo (Buf - DEF) BN C. Williams (TB - RB) BN L. Johnson (KC - RB) BN R. Brown (Mia - RB) BN M. Moore (Min - RB) BN J. McCareins (NYJ - WR) BN B. Leftwich (Jac - QB) Team 9 QB M. Bulger (StL - QB) WR R. Moss (Oak - WR) WR J. Horn (NO - WR) RB J. Lewis (Bal - RB) RB J. Jones (Dal - RB) W/T L. Coles (NYJ - WR) K J. Elam (Den - K) DEF Baltimore (Bal - DEF) BN J. Witten (Dal - TE) BN J. Delhomme (Car - QB) BN J. Bettis (Pit - RB) BN B. Stokley (Ind - WR) BN S. Graham (Cin - K) BN Seattle (Sea - DEF) Team 10 QB T. Brady (NE - QB) WR R. Wayne (Ind - WR) WR C. Chambers (Mia - WR) RB P. Holmes (KC - RB) RB T. Barber (NYG - RB) W/T E. Moulds (Buf - WR) K D. Akers (Phi - K) DEF New York (NYG - DEF) BN W. Dunn (Atl - RB) BN M. Muhammad (Chi - WR) BN C. Benson (Chi - RB) BN B. Edwards (Cle - WR) BN B. Roethlisberger (Pit - QB) BN J. Fargas (Oak - RB)

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 24, 2005 -> 04:45 PM) It might have taken them a while to turn it around, but they won the division in 2001. Your list of home grown talent makes my point about the minor league production under KW even stronger. Buehrle and Crede had already played in the major leagues when KW took over, and KW's first year as GM, was Rowand's first in AAA. Cotts was a trade, Jenks a waiver pick up, and Garland, who I believe logged time with the Sox in 2000, was also a trade. This is year 5 for KW There is not 1 White Sox draft pick since he took over on the team. The minor leagues need to produce. JR is not cheap with the money to develop players, in fact Torborg was gushing a couple weeks ago how much he dumps into player development. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I believe KW was director of the minor leagues ( or some such title) before he took over as GM, so Buehrle and Crede would have been under his watch. Even though Cotts, Garland, and Jenks came in trades or pickups they still went through the WHITE SOX system and the WHITE SOX organization and the WHITE SOX developed them. Williams served as the club’s director of minor league operations from 1995-96 and was promoted to vice president of player development for four additional seasons (1997-2000). Under his direction, the White Sox were named 2000 Organization of the Year by Baseball America, USA Today and Howe SportsData.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Aug 24, 2005 -> 04:44 PM) i guess it depends on your definition of home-grown. if you mean a guy you drafted and brought through the system to the big club, that's one thing; but if you mean drafted elsewhere than traded as you are a minor-leaguer, that's another. the indians picked up sizemore and crisp from other orgs when they were still in the minors. if that is the rationale then cliff lee and jake westbrook would also be considered homegrown. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I believe both Cliff Lee and Jake Westbrook pitched with other major league teams. Lee with the Expos and Westbrook with the Yanks, I may eb wrong about Lee however. They were brought up through another team's organization AND played with another major league club. I do not consider them homegrown.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 24, 2005 -> 04:41 PM) I've said all year it's the best move KW made all season. That, and the AJP move, were the two best, in my opinion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Scootie P Iguchi A.J. Jenks Hermanson Pablo Ozuna Jermaine Dye All of those moves have been very very good.