Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 1, 2005 -> 12:58 PM) Cause he hits under .250, that's why I personally don't like the guy that much. I feel the same way. I've long debated the fact. I think quite a few people look way too much at OPS and not enough at AVG. They get infatuated with it to a point. OPS is great, but at some point or another a guy has to be able to get base hits. Dunn doesn't do that. He could move to a team like the Sox, have some protection and all of a sudden hit .270, if thats the case, the guy is a premiere offensive player in my book or close to it. I just don't know if thats going to happen, but he is part of a team that as a whole has been known to strikeout a ridiculous amount of times. If I were to trade for him, It would be because Walker and other scouts tell me (me being Kenny) that they see things they could do to help get his avgerage up to an acceptable level. Once again, I don't deal pitching and I think thats what Cinncy and most teams would be looking for. In fact, if i could compare it to anything, it would be a person looking at how great of a return a person could get in a stock, but they fail to look at the actual risk and deviation the stock has made over a certain amount of years. You can't look at just one thing, you got to way a few things into the factor and at one point, you got to look past someones ridiculous ops and look at the more basic things like hits.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Nov 2, 2005 -> 01:47 PM) In more ways that one....

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 2, 2005 -> 01:43 PM) In any season in which Frank has had more than 105 AB's, he has posted a ridiculusly high OBP, and if he can just get on base with someone like Konerko after him, run production will go up. And if Frank can hit 12 HR's in 105 AB's while having one good leg, I'm pretty sure he can do just as good, if not better, with two healthy ones. And again, we shouldnt go into next year with Thomas as our only DH choice. That would be downright foolish. But we should give him a shot to prove he can still hit, as he did prove in his brief stint this year. And if all else fails, we can trade for Carl at the trading deadline again. Frank has been given a shot the past couple years. He hasn't been healthy, now is the time to say goodbye. Sure he can be great when he's on the field, but he isn't on the field all the time and I'd rather have a guy who can put up 90% of Frank's production and be on the field the entire season. Heck a guy like Delgado would put up 100% of the production Frank would, imo, and would be far more likely to stay healthy. So over the course of a full season he'd exponentially do more than Frank would. For example, if the Sox have Brian Anderson and Frank Thomas as the DH platoon. When Frank goes down we'll have a DH who will hit .250 with maybe 15 Hr's and a lousy OBP. Lets say they add Durazo, we'll have two guys that may stink it up, considering Durazo is coming off of a pretty serious injury as well. Lets not forget some wonder whether Frank will be able to ever play again. He's 38 years old or so and hasn't been healthy in a few years. There is no reason to think he will stay healthy for a full season or even half a season and relying on him would be absolutely foolish.

If any of you that haven't seen it feel any better, your really not missing out on anything. It was incredibly lame...kind of like SNL

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 2, 2005 -> 01:33 PM) oh.. I didn't know posting a .905 OPS in the limited playing time you got was good. Compare that to Carl's last year (or this year, whichever you want to refer to it as). We shouldn't have Frank and no backup plan, but I dont think there is a doubt in my mind as to whether or not we should bring him back. This team just won the world series. Its not a time to be nice and cuddly and just relax. Its a time to make an upgrade and do whatever you can to give your team the chance at defending the crown. Next season is going to be harder, every single team will be gunning for us. Resigning Frank and finding another lefty gives the Sox nothing better than they had this year, which was Carl Everett. People, get your heads out of your butt and realize Frank is not going to be healthy for an entire season, heck, you'll be lucky if he's heatlhy for half a season. A world series team can't pin its hopes (especially one with a not so great offense) on a DH that will only play half the season. It needs to make an upgrade, a guy like Mark Texiera (probably best case and I can't see a chance in hell of it happening because the Sox aren't going to deal any starting pitcher not named Duque this offseason), however Carlos Delgado is an option. Manny Ramirez could be an option. Brian Giles could be an option. These are all guys that have a history of being healthy and flat out producing. Frank Thomas hasn't put up a seasons worth of production in a couple years and there is no reason to thing he's going to be able to do so next year. I expect the Sox to resign Konerko or find a similar player to him (via trade or FA) as well as to sign or trade for a very good DH (doesn't necessarily have to be a full time DH either). Anything else will be a dissapointment in my mind. The Sox had one major flaw during the season and it was DH, this off-season they will see payroll increase and they need to fill that one hole (not that others won't open up, cause injuries and guys just not playing to their capabilities are always possible).

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 2, 2005 -> 12:49 PM) If you find a way to trade for Billy Wagner this offseason I'll give you 10 bucks. I'll add in 100 and I know I'll never give any of it up. Wagner is a FA so the only option is to sign him (I think you may have been referring to this Rowand, but not sure).

I'll pass. This team doesn't need Frank Thomas starting at DH. That is not an upgrade and it is known the Sox need to upgrade the DH position (Everett was > than Thomas and Carl was one of the worse DH's in the AL). If I were told Frank would be healthy, sure, but thats not the case and they need to find themselves a full time, very good DH, and that persons name is not Frank Thomas. Frank Thomas is no longer an everyday player, case closed. He aught to go to Tampa Bay where he can swing for the fences and get his 500 hr's. I love and appreciate what Frank did, but if the Sox are depending on Frank getting healthy and being our DH, than well, quite frankly, we won't be defending our title next year.

Detroit may be the best 4th place team in baseball though, imo. I really think they are a better team than they showed last year and they should be better this year, assuming they continue to spend money (like they have been). The Al Central is a very, very tough division.

Poor threads get closed. This is one of them. This has nothing to do with baseball, and nothing to do with the Sox. This is irrelevant. Soxtalk does not care about whether Epstein stepping down is going to create more ESPN love. Maybe some people like discussing the media hatred and all that stuff, but last I looked the Sox are the best team in baseball...they are the 2005 World Series Champs and the last thing I want to see is people whining about the love the Sox are getting in the media. If your dependent on media love, go somewhere else, all I need to know is that the Sox are 2005 World Champs...thats all I need to hear, there is no other way to spin it than the Sox are world champs!!!! Take note, threads like this will continue to be closed and in most cases deleted. This will only be closed simply so people can read this and get the memo.

The biggest joke on there is Erstad not winning the gold glove at 1st base. He's the best first baseman in both leagues (by a landslide too, along with JT. Snow of the Giants). Tex can't hold Erstads jock strap (not knocking Tex) but Erstad has insane range on pop outs in foul territory and gets to more balls than any other 1st baseman. Plus he can pick it as good as anyone else too. But no shock to me. Oh and Jeter winning another crock.

I'm sure they will, who knows when it will be though.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 08:44 PM) I hope they can backload Konerko's contract. Like have him earn $6 Million for the first year and he ends up earning $14.5 Million in the last year of the contract. That would total up to $49 Million and you can put bonuses in there to. No way, this team can't afford to backload, if they do that there pitchers will be becoming FA's at the same time Konerko and a few other backloaded contracts would get really steep, basically making it impossible to resign our starting pitching.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 1, 2005 -> 12:48 AM) Ichiro wants out of Seattle? http://www.insidebayarea.com/davedelgrande/ci_3164136 "DATELINE: In front of Bonds. The baseball off-season has gotten off to a very quiet start in Seattle. Too quiet. Rumor has it Ichiro has grown tired of the Mariners' losing ways and wants out, but Seattle-area reporters aren't publicizing it because they like dealing with the Japanese hitting star on a daily basis. They're hoping the All-Star changes his mind before his request for a trade becomes a demand. Believe it: The Mariners are accepting offers right now for the standout leadoff hitter, and the price is only going to go up if/when Ichiro's true feelings about wanting out become public, prompting more teams to get Bill Bavasi on the phone." If this is true would you give up Garland and Rowand for Ichiro? Then, you could have an outfield of Podsednik in left, Anderson in center, and Ichiro in right with Dye as the DH. It would be a light-hitting outfield but they would have good OBP and speed. Iguchi would have to be the #3 hitter then though. Eh, maybe it isn't a very good idea. No...I want to make one thing clear and I think this is how KW feels. The 5 man rotation is off limits (Garland, Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, and Bmac). The Sox got here with pitching and they aren't about to give it up.

If your talking trade...Mark Texiera should top the list. Problem is the Sox sure as hell aren't going to give the Rangers the pitching they covet. I can guarantee one thing, El Duque is the only starting pitcher the Sox have on the block. Barring injuries next years rotation (99.9% sure) will be Jose, Buehrle, Garland, Freddy, Bmac

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 02:48 PM) I don't know about Byrd, but I can tell you that they plan on using the other Molina as their starter. Many Angels fans have told me he's better defensively and probably just as good offensively. Plus they will be looking to trade Erstad and/pr Finley's contract. They're definately going to be making a run at PK. Hell, Manny makes 24 million or something like that and the Angels plan on making a strong run at him. Arte Moreno is the latin George Steinbrenner. He'll go after them. Oh yeah, they also have Salmon coming off the books too. Rofl, if an Angel fan told you that they are a total idiot. Jose Molina is pathetic. I'd rather have Widger over him to be honest. Molina is a poor hitter, isn't as good defensively as Bengie (still has a strong arm though) and would be an awful choice for the Angels. The Angels needs to resign Bengie, although they may not. If they don't, they better find a better stop gap than Jose (Jeff Mathis is not yet ready to take over).

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 02:45 PM) Yep. Thank god we have the picture of health that is Frank Thomas. You won't hear me ask for either of them. The last thing I want the Sox to do is have a hole at DH like they did this year. I'll pass on a defending champ having a hole at DH when they will have the financial resources to plug it. Other holes will probably open up as the off-season/season progresses and quite frankly DH shouldn't be one of them. Find a hitter like Giles, resign Konerko, move Duque and maybe Marte and add another reliever (to replace Marte if he's moved). The only moves you'll see are potential moves on the bench with guys like Timo, Widger, Gload, etc.

Fudge...just as he was really starting to look good. Best of luck in the rehab. Oh ya and I f***ing hate turf.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 11:03 AM) The value is only what someone would be willing to pay, which is likely why Scott says they don't pay attention to those figures. Ya, those numbers really don't mean much anything until the owners want to put it up for sale and sell it at a price near them.

Well my fantasy team may be losing both Daunte and Boldin. However, I just accepted a Jimmy Smith/Jerome Bettis for Matt Hasselbach deal so at least I'll have a viable fantasy qb. I have no interest in the Bus and I'm just going to cut him. I just hope if Boldin is done for the year that Fitzgerald can replace him. I even got as desperate to pick up Roy Williams hoping he'll rebound and have a good 2nd half and be able to replace Boldin. My other WR is Mushin.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 12:55 PM) I think you need to lay off the pipe. Financially it can be done. Doesn't mean it would happen.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 12:50 PM) What has Brian Giles done over the past few seasons to convince anyone that he'll suddenly drop off in production. The man has been a model of consistancy and has atleast 2 very good years left in him. A guy who can put up a 1.000 OPS is most definetly worthy of $10M a year. I think a lot of people haven't look at his stats. Well over .400 OBP, high average, tons of xtra base hits and all that in Petco park with what is a rather meager offense. Giles would put up a near 1.000 OPS if he were playing half his games at the cell. That said if the Pads offer him 3yr/30 he's gonna be staying in San Diego.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 12:39 PM) Perhaps he'll want to play with a team with some recient post season success... Obviously Ozzie loves him, but I don't know if the Sox go after him with Uribe and Crede emerging the way they have. That said, the Sox could very well opt for another speed guy and creating some sort of ultra platoon situation. However, with the way Uribe played down the stretch, I just can't see the Sox spending 10 million on a shortstop thats not 6.5 million better than the guy were currently paying 3.5 million or so. If they decided to move Tadahito and have Uribe or Furcal at 2nd, than that would be a possibility. Or of course if they plan on dealing Crede/Uribe (one of them) than it opens up things. I think the Sox need to resign Konerko, sign Brian Giles, deal El Duque, potentially move Marte and maybe sign one more reliever (you can never have too many). For the most part I think they have a team thats already one of the best in the bigs (with Konerko).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 12:24 PM) No, but he may very well get that if we do the smart thing and sign him a 3 year deal instead of risking arbitration and losing him. I agree with you. I've long been a propopent of a 3 or 4 year deal averaging near 8 million a season. Of course you do run the risk of this being a career year, but I think Garland will consistently put up similar numbers to what he did this past year.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 10:48 AM) I'm not really sure how high the trade value is on a 33 year old reliever with a horribly bad back and who's also comming off a career year. He's also signed to an affordable deal and I don't think the Sox should move him. Both him and Politte are very affordable and are going to be keys to the success of next years club. Plus we need to be prepared for growing pains with Jenks and its great to have those extra options. In the AL a strong bullpen is almost as important as a strong rotation.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Oct 31, 2005 -> 10:45 AM) I just don't think the Angels have the finances to make a significantly better offer to Konerko than the Sox do without moving some talent on that team. If they make such a move, then I'm not sure if they're upgrading or not. They have some serious starting rotation issues that need to be resolved, since they'll potentially lose Byrd and Washburn. This line is BS. They'll be fine for the rest of their lives whether Paul gets $12 million for 4 years or $15 million for 5 years. If Paul really cares about winning, he's going to probably end up back here. The Mets and Dodgers may be willing to overpay, but I don't think either of those teams would seriously contend for another season or two, despite some of the star power on those teams (especially the Mets). If he's not back here, then he's not really serious about being a part of the White Sox. If it comes down to Anaheim, Boston and the Sox the team that has the least history of winning is the Sox. Boston looks on there way to becoming a perennial playoff team, the Angels are a perennial playoff team, and than the Sox are in a tough division and while I think they are set to go a long way (with that pitching staff) they'll have the smallest payroll of any of the 3 despite playing in the largest market. We can't get bias here. Sure we all love Chicago and I think Paulie likes it here and knows the Sox have done a lot for him, but thats not to say him leaving now and going to Anaheim or Boston would be him just running for the money, both of those teams are capable of winning it all (out of the 3 I'd probalby choose Chicago or Anaheim simply because Boston's pitching staff is in shambles, that said, Boston will spend money and may just land AJ Burnett via FA and another starter via trade). If all 3 teams offer the exact same $ figure, I think it comes down to Chicago and Anaheim (Anaheim trains in Tempe, a little closer to his home and during the season Anaheim is a lot closer to his home, don't really know how much of an effect that has). Konerko isn't stupid and he's going to be in a great position and he can and will take advantage of this situation. Lord knows if we were in the same spot we'd do the same.