Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 2, 2013 -> 11:00 AM) Obviously Viciedo is the disappointment this year out of the two, but Viciedo is also the one under team control a lot longer. He's part of the possible long-term future if he can be developed, Rios is not. That's why you move Rios for nothing other than salary savings at some point to clear space for Garcia if you have to move someone. Alternatively one of them could be moved to 1b, but as we've noted that does negate the advantage which is Viciedo's arm. Viciedo has made major strides. I really can't call that a dissapointment. He was raw and the development he's made has been great and is positioning him to turn into a good offensive player. Now, if next year, he's still putting up numbers like this year, then its time to end the experiment.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 2, 2013 -> 11:04 AM) The league-average OPS at 3b this year is .731 and Miguel Cabrera's carrying a ton of that. 14 teams are getting a .701 or lower OPS out of 3b this year. Yes the Sox are one of them, but he does not need an .800 OPS to be league average. Getting to .750 would be a major stretch. He barely posted any season of .750 plus in the MINORS. And that was the minors. There aren't many people projecting this guy to be a league average 3rd baseman. Could he by dumb luck pan out, sure, but his track record and tools don't necessarily indicate you spend a bunch of time on him. Tyler Flowers, he's a guy you give time (look at how many .800 +, including .900+ OPS seasons he had in the minors and that went along with a good toolset). Not that Gillespie has bad tools, he was a supplemental 1st rounder but he really hasn't given you many indications of breaking out and being a regular 3rd baseman on a GOOD major league team and I want to be good.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 2, 2013 -> 11:03 AM) I think league average is something we'd really like to have and that was his point.... He can hold it down and not be a problem with the team until you get a guy with some real star potential I'd love to have that too....but Gillespie is not and will not be a league average 3rd baseman. He has shown nothing in his past to project to such. He does look like he could be a valuable platoon player who could pinch hit and play multiple positions within the infield.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 2, 2013 -> 06:13 AM) I think Connor will develop into a solid but not spectacular 3b if he continues to be given at bats. The guy has one .800 OPS season in the minors (and it was in the ever inflated PCL). I don't know what about his past screams that he'd be anything league average at 3rd base. The one thing he did do was consistently post good OBP's down in the minors.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 10:31 PM) Maybe I'm not recalling correctly, but I feel like that was an instance of a ST insider sharing some info that didn't materialize. Wasn't there something Damon having a big dick too? Or is that public info? I think there were reports as well. It came right down to the wire but I think there was some inside stuff as well there. In hindsight, Damon wouldn't have made a hill of beans difference that year. Can't help you on the dick part, I have no earthly idea.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 07:34 PM) Gillaspie's defense has really soured me towards him lately, I could see him being a 3b/1B backup but his lack of power and defense really makes him a bad option starting anywhere Gillaspie is not a starting 3rd basemen...period. s***ty OBP and not a lot of power. Guy is nothing more then a bench player at best.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 07:06 PM) Yeah, Paulie was supposed to be the Dodgers' catcher of the future..... Remember the season (I think under Jerry Manuel) where the White Sox briefly experimented with Paulie at 3rd. I want to say it lasted one or two games and they never did it again.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 06:25 PM) Funny looking at the other longest threads in PHT history. Next up is us acquiring Manny, lol. And after that it is Peavy rejecting a deal to us, again lol. Then the Tigers signing Damon, uh okay. And then us trading for Edwin Jackson, how exciting. Tigers signing Damon was so long because at one point, we all thought the Sox were the team that was going to sign him. The good thing is...Soxtalk clearly still has traffic...recent moves have been the top traffic getters. Just wait till this team gets back to the playoffs and wins another series!!!

That is an awesome shirt, especially since I love me some Jimmy B!

Soxtalk...retro 1985! Thanks Steve!!!!

Look up and down the lineup and look at the OBP's these guys are putting out. Who the hell could possibly win with this s*** lineup? The defense and miscues, sure we have every right to be mad at that, but I don't know how to evaluate that since RV did a hell of a job last year on the fundementals and I don't know how it could all go to s*** so quickly. I'm just perplexed and think this has more to do with the fact that when we went into the tubes, the veteran leaders kind of just gave up and thats why I think it is nice to move someone like Rios, etc, and kind of clear house. I'm just assuming things though. I'm not in the lockeroom so I have no earthly idea what happened, but sometimes, when s*** goes bad, it stays bad till you can hit the reset button in the offseason. All I care about is the development of our young players and both Beckham and Viciedo have taken steps forward and our young arms have done a good job. That is what gets me excited. Now its about finding more young talent to go with them and then supplementing that with some solid veteran leadership and presence.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) But that won't stop people from declaring how great of an idea it is. Well...technically they will spend more then this past year (both internationally and via the draft), but that is purely due to how s***ty they have been so they will have larger allotments. But it would be ignorant to think they are going to spend an extra 20 million on the international front (JR never violates any rule...even though we technically could and just deal with the penalty a year from now..however that might not be that smart since we likely will be a poor team again next year...its smarter to violate the rules when you are good and then just take the every other year ban on international spending). It would also be ignorant to think they are going to reinvest it and go crazy in FA (I do agree with you, they will likely look at extending some players and using the cash that way). However, a large chunk is going to go straight into the bankrolls of the White Sox (some of which will be off-set by the reduction in revenues driven by poor attendance) and you just have to hope the White Sox reinvest those funds and go a little extra when this team is ready to compete. You also hope they don't go on the total cheap as they would be smart to add some quality veterans who could either help them be competitive (and then if you aren't, you can move those assets at the deadline while your young players continue to develop).

One thing to point out, the Sox could also look to add potential players or bats through the waiver process. You never know what team is trying to move a guy because he's due for a raise, etc, and the Sox could look at this as a time to buy someone that fits on the roster long-term. Just throwing it out there.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 1, 2013 -> 08:37 AM) The Union isn't bending over backwards for Bud. They're bending over backwards for their players. Just from ARod and Braun we're talking about $400 million in contracts. That's $400 million that could have gone to clean players and instead is locked up in the bank accounts of a couple guys who cheated to get where they are. The general tone is the rest of the players are pissed and pretty much supporting MLB here. The one fear all of the players have is you don't want to create a tone or standard where owners can use PED's as an out from horrific contracts. So that is the one thing the players association has to be very careful of, imo. Otherwise you'll have Arte Moreno pricking Hamilton and Pujols with steroids while they sleep as a way to get out of those contracts.

Arod cheated multiple times and baseball might have turned a blind eye 10 years ago, but they haven't turned a blind eye for the past 5 years and Arod has got caught 2 different times during the period where they were being hard asses. Examples need to be made if the sport will be clean again and Selig and MLB are doing this right. Screw Arod, he tried to circumnavigate the whole system and he's going to pay the price.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:56 PM) He quietly just had a really good July. Batted .308/.368/.529 with 10 extra base hits and 4 of those were home runs....This is his 2nd month with an obp over .340 which I would just love if he could give us that a whole season. If that and the power he's displayed this month sticks with him he would look really nice in the middle of the lineup. He's showing more patience and a much better ability to hit right handed pitching. I think the left handed struggles are just a fluke based on limited stats (since he's crushed LHP in the minors and last year). If he continues to take the steps forward he did, we will start to see him start to become an above average player, imo (especially when you factor in his bargain contract).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 05:13 PM) I'd put Garcia first also. But that might have changed had EJ dominate Charlotte instead of the DL for the last month. Garcia is head and shoulders the top prospect in the organization right now, imo. Johnson is nice but Garcia's upside > Johnson. I look forward to next year when Hawkins takes steps forward and Thompson breaks out for good (what...I'm going to be an optimist today!!!). That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the above happened.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 03:58 PM) If some team inexplicably claims Danks, and the option is to dump him for nothing at all outside of complete salary relief, do you do it? My pipedream thread. 100% absolutely yes. It will not happen though. And I think Danks will come back and be a good pitcher and pitch at a level consistent with what he makes going forward, however, I don't see him outperforming the contract and given the fact we have three lefties, I'd again take the cash because I think it could be better invested.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 08:19 PM) If any team wants to claim Ramirez or Dunn, you let them take those guys and their contracts.I'd be really surprised if the team couldn't get something for Alexei. He's hitting pretty damn good and is still a valuable player. His defensive miscues are odd this year but overall he is what he is (and that is an above average shortstop without an unreasonable contract).

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 07:32 PM) Its too bad Tank didn't turn into that 30 HR guy Harold Reynolds and some here thought he's be. How sexy would a De Aza CF- L Beckham SS- R Cano 2B-L Rios RF-R Dunn DH-L Tank 1B-R Gilaspie 3B-L Garcia LF- R Phegley C- R That's a hella balanced lineup, and if Tank gets his power stroke back you can switch him and Rios. I think we are going to see a really good Tank next year. He's made a ton of progress this year, imo.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 06:37 PM) The Sox desperately need some of these young guys to turn into above average players. Sadly, we all know how awful the organization has been for over a decade in developing offensive players. Outside of Beckham (and to a lesser extent Viciedo) the Sox really haven't had any legit offensive prospects in a while. Anderson was more of a defensive guy with a solid bat (and potential but not what I'd call a developed hitter...albeit his minor league numbers were good). In fact, it really has been a long time since we've had a good core of what I'd call difference making prospects. I'd still say we are away from that (unless Hawkins, Thompson, Barnum, etc take a lot of steps forward...however at least I can say we have some guys with the "tools" to be excited about), It truly is pathetic how s***ty the org has been at drafting and developing positional talent.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 31, 2013 -> 06:27 PM) Are there people really saying no to Robbie Cano? Are we just going to be forever afraid of top free agents? I know everyone wants to rebuild but if they grab Cano I believe they become instant contenders. I love Cano but it will be hard for the White Sox to win if they go out and sign guys to mega deals. They just won't maintain the type of payroll it takes to be able to cover up for those guys when the contracts are no longer playable. The Sox best case is using their money on younger players (who they acquired during the pre-arb years) and on quality veterans on more short-term deals, imo. Its unfortunate that the Sox couldn't just go on a draft and international signing spending spree. Hell, I'd love it if we just said f*** it next year and took the penalty on the international front and just dropped a s***-ton of money.

I expect the Sox to be embroiled in a good number of rumors between now and the end of September. I also wonder if at any point they'd consider letting Ramirez, Rios or Dunn go for absolutely nothing other then salary relief. The other question is, will any of these guys clear waivers because of their contract (if you'd believe the rumors, you'd maybe think Rios and Dunn would go through) which would at that point, allow you to freely trade these guys and send cash (could be important depending on what happens from an injury perspective, etc). If it were me, I'd keep Ramirez and only trade him for value. Dunn and Rios I'd let go purely for the salary relief and hope the Sox could better use their payroll on other assets.

The White SOx havne't had this good of a position prospect in years (at least not when it comes to the "hit" tool and I for one am really excited to see Garcia with the Sox and for the first time in a long time, I expect this guy to make an all star game or two with the White Sox. Yes, I've dranken the Garcia cool aid. Of course, I'll temper that by saying the only other guy in the past 5-7 years with this type of hit tool in our organization was Beckham and well he's had his issues after that rookie year. He was such a good pure hitter that first year with us and I look at Garcia in a similar fashion. He can hit the ball to all fields and the power will come. He does have some areas to improve related to his overall patience and approach but I think that will improve with time. This is a really talented kid and in my opinion I'd take him over pretty much any of the other top prospect names we heard the past couple days (I say pretty much...not necessarily all).

I fully expect there to be some rumors related to Ramirez and Rios during the waiver process and as a result of such I'm going to leave trade winds open. I fully expect the Sox will make another deal during the waiver period (it might just be Lindstrom) but I expect another move.