GreenSox

Bochy won in the Sabean/Bobby Evans era. Those 2 operated similarly to Williams/Hahn, but they were just a lot better at it. Still, it's obsolete.

That 2nd list is absolutely stunning: #25 in W/L % during his tenure.

That's the bottom line; they care about their own comfort. If the owner and/or Pres' instincts aren't to invest in analytics and development infrastructure, it's the GM's job to convince them to do so. if Hahn had any real skill, he'd have either a) convinced them to invest in necessary infrastructure and likely would have won here long before now or b) moved on to a different organization that was focused on success. This is fairly common in the corporate world: upper management producing mediocre results, and concentrating on making themselves as comfortable as possible. Doesn't change until the shareholders get pissed. Where y'at, minority owners (who actually own a majority)?

This was a well-earned punch in the nose to end this season.

Good lord, Davis. After all those nice things I typed about you yesterday. Now I read he's sore...but he pitched....

Certainly hope not. I'll take Gonzales, Sosa, et al. Adding old players, especially mediocre old players, is just asking for it.

And if he can hit 2 more tonight, he can tie Sammy Sosa for 6th!

Trading Vaughn is selling low. Let him play his position for a year and see what we have. While SP may be a need, an ace like Burns is not a top need because we have an ace and because we have no LF or RF and the starting staff is still probably thin. And Burns will cost us Montgomery and/or Colas as well. And for what - to "go for it" when we have Graveman, Diekman and Kelly in the pen, and, as I read on here, Pollock (yikes!) in the OF? (are the Sox really going with Pollock?) Trading young players is what caused this whole mess, and what causes the mess to persist for a decade.

Again, I don't disagree with the state of the pitching. I just don't think it's in the org's best interests for Hahn to trade for a starter, particularly at this stage with his "last stand" vibes. (I don't see any reason to take a "last stand" approach in 2023). Now, if he's going to get creative and really shake things up and move some of the "core" and bring in a new "core" (relatively young players) then okay. But his MO is young for old. He's likely to trade our young players or best prospects for some veteran with 2 years left, near 30, showing some subtle signs of decline, that a savvy team is peddling before he hits the floor. As or Davis Martin, I don't know what next year holds, but this year he was as good as any starter we had this side of Cease. He threw strikes, and gave up maybe a homer per 9. Not high K numbers, so maybe he got lucky; but maybe not. But he's the kind of guy Hahn would trade.

Then I'd say sign some 5th starter type. Give Lambert a try (he was mostly a starter in the minors). Hahn has made 3-5 good trades in a decade, and probably at least 15 negative trades, including a couple that were catastrophic. The odds say it's not worth the risk.

I agree with that set-up. But how the team deals with that will change with a different GM. Hahn yapping about trades has the makings of another "last stand" from Hahn, where he repeats his 2015-2016 disaster. He still has the same habits as he had back then. I certainly wouldn't trade for a starter; the cost is enormous and with Hahn's (and his hapless pro scouting department) eye for talent, the benefits minimal. I would get Colas up; let Gonzales, Sosa and the 2 or 3 other MI prospects handle 2B. Man the other OF spot with someone who can at least play D. Try to get a catcher if Grandal can't catch. And take the year to see what you really have in Vaughn when he's settled in at his real position. If things go well, and the core gets back to form, they may be okay.

The contrast between La Russa's letter in which he accepted special and specific responsibility (I missed his spoken comments) and Hahn's comments where he accepted no specific nor special responsibility ("we're all responsible"; "no one feels worse about this than I do") was stunning. LaRussa really fell on the sword for this FO.

He said that if he thought he couldn't do the job, then he wouldn't be here (as if his fate is his decision). Then, predictably, he alluded to the "executive of the year" commendations of 2 years ago.

Anyone have a link to the press conference? I'm watching some radio talk show with some loudmouth cubs fan calling in.

Pretty low bar for comparison. And Hostetler was worse than Lauman.

Joe Kelly's going to be even more expensive. And I guess I should ask what's the point of Harrison the last few games?

He's been with this org. for one season; we already do our share of Mr. Nice guy with friends and family.

What is the point of Payton?

Because I'd rather the Sox not lose the one person in the dugout (and possibly the one guy in the entire organization) who uses (or at least tries to use) state-of-the-art analytics. If they are really cleaning house, then that means we will load up with modern thinkers, so fine, he can go. But if it's the culling of a few scapegoats, then it's essential that he stays.

My fear is that they trade some of the younger guys, not to rebuild, but for more old guys, which is the basic FO instinct. A competent FO could retool this and give them a decent chance for next season. Had Hahn done his job, this could have been a 95 win team. His clowning turned it into an 88 win team and La Russa's clowning dropped it down to 82ish. Get the D squared away. Let Abreu go and sign an OF. If Grandal can play D, fine; if not, find a defensive catcher. Try to move some of the old bums out of the pen, even if you have to eat some salary. They could move Anderson; but no need, unless they get a big offer.

Let's say that's true. Fine - Hahn's just been an errand boy for the last decade. We can find another errand boy, so there's no risk in firing him. And the next errand boy might have some gumption to try to do more, like build a system, build a real pro-scouting department, build analytics, etc.

What?

Hey, we won a game! I think we'll get 1 or 2 in the fresh Pacific air.

And mostly because of the general manager.

Doesn't he have an option that has to pick up? Anyway, the FO doing that is the first step (and with these birds running the operation, that's no certainty). Anyway, after this season, I don't see how he can be traded, other than selling low. Decent chance he rebounds, with his FA season on tap.