GreenSox

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 08:20 PM) The question is would Hahn be willing to give up Tim Anderson for Gattis? Or wouldn't it be a better use of resources to find a DH on the free agent market, someone between Adam Lind and Victor Martinez. No. While Gattis wouldn't be cheap it won't cost him either. Gattis is a good hitter, but he's not that great. He's just not what the Sox need anyway. Not good enough for DH; doesn't really man a position with defensive excellence either. It would be sort of like the Swisher trade, which was awful

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 03:49 PM) Yes, but I thought that we have been debating how to use the significant payroll flexibility to fill those holes. I hope we can. Unfortunately, we'll get none out of the FA market, other than a starter (and I'm not sure a mid-tier starter is worth giving that draft pick up). A heyward up this year would be tempting. and V Mart is tempting. I would probably not sign him, but have no real objection if they do.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 06:19 PM) We should go after jason heyward to improve our defense. if only he were a FA....we have the money. Sox are in no position to rent, however.

I don't think he'd be that cheap. 20 homers, still pre arb (although getting in his late 20s - late bloomer I guess). Not sure he can catch 130 games. I think the Sox would have to pay for this guy. Anyway, I'd use the bullets for a LF who can hit and field if that exists and is available.

One aspect that should put the Sox in a stronger bargaining position is that several teams that expect to win need a SS.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 04:54 PM) Ha, both are literally the baseball definition of a spare part. Sanchez is (at this point) a decent utility infielder that has maybe a 1/3 shot to turn into an average MLB middle infielder either at SS or 2B. Hawkins is a B- prospect that hasn't yet played above A ball. You trade those guys 10/10 for an established MLB player like Gonzo. Not saying Gonzo would even be a particularly good target (don't know enough about his injury history or his splits outside Coors) but those guys are by every definition "spare parts" that would be used in a trade like this. Not even close to reality. Hawkins is our number 1 outfield prospect, an easy top 10 in our system, with excellent, albeit unrefined tools, who just had a bounceback season. Nothing about him fits the definition of a spare part. The Sox have no second baseman and may be peddling the SS. Those 2 positions will be divided among 3 players, of whom Sanchez is one. Now it's also true I have little interest in a highly paid player with De Aza numbers away from Coors field who is poor defensively and who has big warning signs indicating sharp decline. He may be iconic to the Rockies, but he's extremely flawed in my eye. The Sox need a good fielding LF who can hit -and that will be the hardest need to fill, no doubt.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 03:55 PM) He made some wild throws due to poor footwork. His hands and range looked good, if not really good. If that's the case, it's something to build on. some more teaching and reps should improve him. Range and arm are there. Not sure he has a bat for 3B though.

The Angels signed owe Hamilton 89 mill/3 years. They'd have to take back at least 60 of that. They'd be better off keeping him and hope for a rebound. He always looked like a lazy ballplayer to me, even when he was good.

Too much. Hawkins is hardly a spare part. Neither is Sanchez

Red Sox are another team with an excess of declining outfielders

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) So, you don't think that Sale, Quintana, Rodon and whomever else they use for the #3 and #4 starters, comprise even a .500 starting staff, providing the bullpen doesn't throw away quality starts? I know that Rodon may not be able to provide 30 plus starts, nevertheless I just don't have that little confidence in our starters. Hell, even Danks can give you quality starts, in about 60% of his outings. We don't know about Rodon. Noesi, if he repeats, is fine as a #5. They need 2 more 3/4 types. And going into a season with exactly 5 is foolhardy. There will be injuries. It's also another reason not to trade the pitching prospects we do have (esp for declining/mediocre veterans). You need a consistently productive pipeline of young pitching. This roster, with no DH, no LF, uncertainty at 2B, dubious D at 3rd, missing 2 starters and whatever in the pen is not a .500 roster. LF is the real challenge here, in my eyes.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 10:00 AM) I just don't think Brett Anderson should be in the cards for the Sox unless it's as a late flyer in January and only if he's asked to be the 5th starter at the very most. We can talk about Carlos Gonzalez's injury history, but it's nothing compared to Anderson's. Bedard cost the a ton in players, Carlos Gonzalez would cost players, Anderson costs zero players = much less risk.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 07:55 PM) Tempting, but even our best offer of Montas, Danish, Anderson and Hawkins might not be enough to get it done. They would ask for Quintana in addition and that would be the deal breaker IMO. There is no team that will give a package like that. None. And that's why the Rocks should keep him. Nobody will pay the value of what he's done in the past. And of course it would be insane for the Sox to do it.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 07:42 PM) I didn't know that. but let me ask this, b/c I never knew the answer. how did the pro's tell and rate if the catcher was a good game caller. how does one measure that??? Yea, Flowers was 6th in the majors in CS % I agree - how does one measure pitch calling or, for that matter, framing?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 07:33 PM) Is WAR really an appropriate tool to value catchers? Defensive metrics are already suspect enough, how can you possibly quantify a catcher's defensive ability accurately? I get that pitch-framing is the big rave right now, but there's a lot more that goes into a catcher's role on the defensive side of the game that should be difficult to measure. The one objective measurable is % of runners thrown out and flowers, dare I say it, was pretty good in that regard.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 07:13 PM) You would take Tyler Flowers over Jason Castro, straight up? That's insane. A lot of people here are going to look silly if the Sox make Flowers their regular catcher and he doesn't get the huge luck he got last year. Castro walks more, strikes out considerably less, hits for only very slightly less power, runs the bases better, and is probably about to pass Flowers in framing given the rate of improvement he's shown as a young catcher. Castro still strikes out a lot, the walk rates aren't that much different other than Castro's one year. I just don't see the point in trading prospects for small upgrades. As for Montero, he's had 2 consecutive down years and his WAR those years is about equal to Flowers. It's hard to justify sending prospects for these marginal upgrades.

Not that it's relevant to the Sox, but why did the Astros make this trade? They gave up 2 decent prospects for a player they don't seem to need.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 03:35 PM) Not sure how much I like it, but I'm beginning to think that they acquired Shuck to be the regular left fielder. I know how much I'd like it - I'd hate it. This is a scapheap pickup - try to find a 4th outfielder, without Sierra and given that Danks is terrible. He may not even work out as a 4th. But you can't take a scapheap claim and seriously suggest that he's the starter.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 03:36 PM) White Sox players who were better than Jason Castro last year Abreu Sale Quintana Ramirez Flowers Eaton Gillaspie DeAza Flowers And that's the significant one

Castro was actually outhit by Flowers last year. They even had a similar number of Ks. Why in the world would the Sox want this guy.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 02:20 PM) . Sox appear to have their fourth outfielder. He'll make the team. If so no need to pursue Aoki.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 11:11 AM) Jose Abreu, on the other hand, is what we would consider an "exceptional free agent," in that he entered our market by illegally fleeing his country, thus bringing circumstances into the fray that are both unusual and thus not normally applicable to the tendencies of free agency. There's retrospect to that. No one really knew what he would do in the majors. Today, he'd get twice his salary. QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 5, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) A deal like M. Johnson, Beck, and Hawkins for CarGo would greatly improve the OF defense while also adding a legitimate bat to the lineup. At an extremely high salary and for 3 of our top 10 prospects as you posit it. And his bat wasn't elite last year; he was also injured.

Rasmus would be fine - reasonable risk. The problem with the other guys is that they are all past their prime. to me only the 3B look interesting. If board fav Heyward were up this year, he would be someone to consider - in his prime and he can defend. Trouble is, teams are tying more and more of these guys up. Comparisons to Keppinger (way past his prime, if he ever had one, which he didn't - that was Joe Maddon using him brilliantly), Belisario (not a top end reliever), and the scrap heap are misguided, imo. As it is, the so got 3 keeper players last year off the scrapheap - Putnam, Guerra, and Noesi. Not great, but replacement level. (a healthy Jones would have helped immensely last year). Wish we had had replacement level at LF, 2B, and 3rd and 4th starter last year. As for DH, I'd go fishing again - vic for Dom Brown - until there is more out there or more foundation laid. Remember, teams like the Giants and Red sox have frequently traded prospects who turn up aces - thing is, they have a pipeline that produces 5 more prospects to deal when that happens.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 11:02 PM) I think it's very possible because chances like this do not come along very often and the goal is to win is it not ? Trying to stay below $100M payroll and expecting to compete doesn't work out very often so take full advantage of that protected pick and go for it. Also lets not forget that TV money of $25M every yr through 2021, . It all won't go for player payroll of course but there is plenty of money available. Who is really worth losing that pick for? First, they aren't going to sign one of the high end pitchers. So that leaves, Sandoval, Headley and V Mart. That's about it. They aren't getting the first two (they will be outbid) so that leaves V Mart. What they need more than V Mart, is an outfielder, who plays good D and who can hit and who is in his prime.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 05:19 PM) Since when is starting pitching an area of no need? Mid rotation is an area of need, but the Sox don't need another top of the rotation guy -oh, not that they couldn't use one, but the marginal benefit v. cost is smaller there for the Sox than at other positions. I would say a mid-level guy, but you have to give up the same draft choice that you do for the top end guy. Which leaves "roll your own". And they are making progress on that end.