GreenSox

QUOTE(bigred3535 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:47 PM) Better arm than anyone except Jenks and Thornton that we have in our bullpen. I may be in the minority but I don't think we're far away from contending if we can get major league players back in trades for Buehrle, Dye and Iguchi and sign one or two of the right free agents. Obviously this is idealistic but I think this team could contend for a playoff berth: I think we could fix this thing quickly too, if we get over our love-affair with grinders and make wise deals this . I am not that schooled on Brewers, but it's hard to believe that we could get 3 excess players from the Brewers with whom we could win as starters.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 06:24 PM) I think CoCo Crisp would be involved a deal because Kenny doesn't consider this rebuilding...more or less reshuffling. Declining obp and power numbers for each of the last 3 years (and they were not that great- Iguchi-ish - to begin with). He'll fit right in.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:55 PM) Please no, not as a centerpiece, only as a throw-in with something good coming along. Not even as a throw in. That would be no pena and no crisp. We have a team full of hack hitters right now.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:25 PM) But you know it will be Lowrie and some A ball reliever who throws hard. Ah man. I couldn't take it.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 06:33 AM) I can't see Boston giving up either Ellsbury or Bucholz, their top 2 prospects. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...T-sox24.article Why not? We gave up one of our top 2 prospects and more for an inferior Garcia. Hell yes they should give up their top 2 prospects.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 11:36 AM) Again, no he wasn't. He was signed to compete for the starting job, otherwise he wouldn't have signed here. It wasn't like he was in high demand; he didn't really outplay Anderson in the spring, has signficantly less power, and doesn't get on base well, but Ozzie absolutely loves him. What objective evidence do you guys see that Ozzie cares about getting on base and plate disclinpline? To me, the evidence is overwheliming that speed and hacking ability are more important. Let's take the 2 hole. Iguchi hit .340OBP and double digit homers in 2005. Ozzie immediately starts talking about moving uribe there. He wasn't satisfied with Iguchi. Then this year, he demotes Iguchi for Erstad. Look at today (and yesterday's lineup)....Gonzales hits in the 2 hole. To Ozzie, bunting is key in the 2 hole...with Thome, Konerko and Dye coming up, the 2 holse hitter needs to bunt. Look at the coaches - Joey Cora, Razor Shines...come on. Pitching - Can't let Garland face that reknown hitter Joe Borachard; gotta turn him around....ooops, you mean they can pinch hit for the woeful borchard? Oh well, another L. Baseball, Ozzie-style. Sure I'm second guessing, but doesn't any responsibilty fall on this coaching staff?

Erstad was signed to be the fourth outfielder. It's OZZIE who decided that this low power and low obp ballplayer was the quintessential center fielder that he had been looking for. Cintron is and was a untility infielder. It was Ozzie who decided this hacking punch hitter who can barely break .200 was his #1 pinch hitter. (How can the worst hitter on the team pinch hit for anyone? Ask Oz). And last year it was Ozzie who benched an offensively-improving and defensively stellar Anderson for Mack who was a butcher in the field. None of these decisions had anything to do with injuries. As for Konerko and the other slumpers, no it's not the coaches fault; but what have the done to get them out of the slump? It's just like the plate patience thing. You'd think ONE of these hitters would emerge just like you'd think ONE of the many slap hitters coached by Guillen and Walker would show some plate discipline....that is if they coach plate discipline.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 04:03 PM) What Ozzie wanted was 2005. Podsednik at his peak, situational hitting, homers. Sorry, but you're way off. I'm sure Ozzie's mandate to KW was, "Give me slow guys. AA relievers. No offense." But other than that, very well done. Fathom, don't praise green. His post is misleading in almost every sense. On edit, I agree with the person above who pointed out that if Williams is doing Ozzie's bidding, then that's Williams' stupidity. That's a good point. Guillen was constantly fighting with Thomas; and Lee. Maggs I don't know about. Guillen is the one who wanted Rowand off (he can't bunt) - fine - but then wouldn't deal with the young hitter replacement. Guillen is the one who played Mack. Williams signed Erstad as a backup. It was Guillen who was so turned on by his hacking at everything and not wasting at bats with walks, that he marginalized Anderson, and called ERstad is a .400 hitter when he hits .200 (that's exactly what Guillen said). Guillen is the one who said that Erstad bats leadoff when both ERstad and Pods return. You ask who else to pinch hit? How about no pinch hitter, since Cintron is a much worse hitter than anyone he could pinch hit for. Yet, who is Ozzie's most frequently used PH? Cintron. What young hitter has Ozzie Guillen successfully developed?

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) All 3. No manager could win with the AA team we're fielding right now. Andy Gonzalez? Ryan Bukvich? Come on. This is on KW, and solely on KW. How many games have we lost due to Ozzie compared to how many we have lost due to the s*** 25 man roster.I agree that no one could win with this roster (although Ozzie is doing about as bad a job with it as is possible). I think you significantly underestimate the influence that Ozzie has on personnel. Who wanted Lee, Ordonez and Frank off this team? That would be Ozzie and his ego. Who wants the free swingers and hackers on the team? Ozzie Who wanted Erstad ahead of the far superior Podsednik? Ozzie because Ozzie loves guys who can hit grounders to either side of the infield, and then run out their copius outs hard. Who wanted Anderson and Sweeney off this team quickly, but had no problem with Owens and his zero walks (until his last game) and zero RBIs for a month? Ozzie. Who actually uses .200 hitters with no power as pinch hitters and, incredibly, as DH? Ozzie. Now this team needed retooling after 03. Thank GOODNESS we won before Guillen got Kenny to completely change this team to, well, what we have this year.

After another brilliant day of managing from Ozzie Guillen, I hope any discussion of extending that clown manager, whose ego and incompetence is taking the Sox down the toilet, ceases.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 09:18 AM) At this point, I'd rather just keep using MacDougal for the rest of the year to see if he shows some improvement. Absolutely - he's got the "stuff" he's just wild. Jones is a declining free swinger who plays poor D. Even for the Cubs, he was just a filler-player. Mac was supposed to be our set-up man. Both are disappointments but Mac has more value. And to throw in a serious arm in addition? noooooo. Hell, I'd prefer Murton.

At least Podsednik has produced for the Sox and was producing this year prior to injury I'd rather producers who jog on outs, that hackers who run as hard as they can on outs and make a lot of them, but who don't produce squat.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 09:06 AM) The Sox don't need a CF -- Erstad is penciled in for the next 3 years on KW's big board. It would be nice of Williams would pencil in a center fielder who could hit worth a damn. OH well, Erstad is a grade A hacker (check) - doesn't waste at bats by walking (check) and he doesn't disrespect Ozzie or Ozzie Jr (check); He's a true Sox, Ozzie-style. Mac Dougal is not worse than Jones, is younger and no way would we have given up 2 live arms for Jones last year. Mac Dougal for Jones this year would be a bad, bad trade for the Sox.

QUOTE(southsida86 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 01:15 AM) I think that the days of trading prospects for a rental player are over. It's tougher, but it can be done - we did it, for example (on the other side). There are a lot of teams in races this year - that will help our chances. Also, you need a team with a stocked farm system that can trade some excess - I don't know if one of those is in the mix or not. As a general observation I notice that many people always suggest that we will get far less when we trade our good players, than they're willing to pay to get someone else's established veteran. It's imperative that Ken Williams pull this off.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 08:27 AM) That year probably is what makes him attractive to KW. The Sox have 3 OF positions to fill next season and they'll bring in a veteran for at least one. Jones contract isn't huge (although it isn't how would want the Sox to use money) and signing a FA would take more years and money. I could easily see this deal getting done. Maybe for MacDougal plus a prospect like Russel? So for 2008, the OF would Jones in RF, Erstad in CF, and Sweeney or Pods in LF. Looking good. MacDougal (a reliever for whom we gave up 2 live arms) PLUS Russell (a legitimate prosepct) for Jock effing Jones? That's insane. Jones is hitting .230 and is in severe decline - you give zero talent for a player like that. He should be free, but a C prospect at most for this guy. He can't make the Cubs - a terrible team - and we're supposed to give up serious talent for him? At that price, we should get 6 grade A prospects for Mark B.

Not a day for good rumors. First the rumor that we're going to sign yet another crappy veteran, and an extension to the manager who has successfully convinced the GM to discard talent and load the team up with crappy veterans.

Just what the Sox need - another mediocre veteran. Baseball, Ozzie-style. Unbelievable. I really hope that Williams isn't living in such denial.

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 05:49 PM) Just bring up Anderson and Sweeney and let em play with Fields. I certainly could go for that. We couldn't do any worse and we'd perhaps help the future. But to do that, Ken Williams needs to have a sit down with his manager and say "patience with the young hitters my man; and keep thy ego in check". Williams needs to make the personnel decisions. Input from the manager - sure, like the input of 04 and 05 - not of 06 and 07. Williams built one world champion...he can do it again.

Ozzie Ball - take a world champion, add hackers and lungers, banish those ball players who dared to cross Ozzie or Ozzie Jr; and presto, you have the worst team in baseball.

QUOTE(AirScott @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 08:24 PM) You don't develop a guy like him into a five-tool player, and not every productive outfielder has to be. Owens could make a pretty good living as a slap-hitting terror on the basepaths who plays an adequate left field. I agree with that; And what is our alternative? More PT for Cintron, Mack and Gonzalez? Ooooh Erstad is coming back - some guaranteed .310 OBP. Can't wait. Any team that uses the woeful Cintron as a designated hitter is putting agendas ahead of winning and improving the club.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 11:18 AM) In left, I'd be fine with it provided CF and RF have strong defenders. The Sox next season are looking at an OF of Sweeney, Erstad, and X and since neither Sweeney nor Erstad will provide much power I'd like to see X be a slugger in LF. Pena is still young, I think you can expect some over .800 OPS seasons from him playing regularly. Erstad has an obp of .310, no power, and is injury prone and declining. I hope the Sox are looking for an upgrade in center field.

QUOTE(CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 07:02 PM) Anyone want to do a little bit of digging and see what the Sox record is with Erstad leading off and what the record is so far since he's been gone ? How many titles did we win with Timo Perez and how many with Erstad; or what was our winning percentage with Anderson and what was it with Erstad? My questions are silly and irrelevant. But ERstad is no leadoff hitter under any analysis, except Ozzie Guillen's who wants swing at everything types atop (and throughout) the lineup. For sure Podsednik is a far more accomplished leadoff hitter than is Erstad.

Look at the lineup Ozzie wheels out there game after game - every hacker, slapper and grinder you can imagine; this team is so obviously overmatched that it begs for high ceiling call-ups. But why play them when hackers like Cintron, Mack and Gonzales can cover the positions? Pinch hit for Cintron? ARe you kidding - it's Cintron who does the pinch hitting on this ballclub. I expect Cintron to bat cleanup tomorrow. Minus 2 injured slappers, this is the team ozzie wanted - hackers and slappers up and down the lineup: the result? 10 below, 10 out with 60% left to play.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 09:07 PM) It's hard to find long relief work for long relievers/spot starters when your rotation is as consistent and durable as ours has been. The mistake is on KW not keeping Masset in AAA to get consistent work, same with McCarthy, not on Guillen. That's true - we don't have a huge need for long relief. He's talented (he has more than just middle relief talent) and he's learning in major league relief, even if the results aren't always there. It's primo experience that will serve him well. I'm not worried about him. We could trade some of the other bullpen pitchers for all I care, but I doubt we get anything for them; selling low in general isn't a great idea.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 19, 2007 -> 05:14 PM) They don't look vital - however, their style of play is. Getting on base and speed helps an offense score runs a great deal. It can really give a boost and spark an offense. The White Sox are missing that big time. Pods gives that when he's healthy and playing well. But he's the only one on the roster who can remotely play that role, he's been injured the last 2 years, but we build zero depth there. Erstad's lousy at getting on base and has no power; but per ozzie he's a .400 quality hitter - with that sort of logic, no wonder we're 11 back.