GreenSox

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 06:56 PM) This is karma for laughing at the Cubs all those years waiting on Wood and Prior. Here we are waiting on Pods and Erstad. At first I laughed when I read that. But now I want to cry. It's so true, so true.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 06:46 PM) Well the big news from the 2 hour Sox brain trust meeting this afternoon ... KW on the pregame basically says they (the players) want to see how they perform when Podsednik and Erstad get back, to see if the team can go on a run. Konerko was at the meeting, as was Guillen and Hahn and of course Williams. So it does not look like any trades will be made for now. My guess is they will evaluate where they are in two weeks, like July 1st. Yea, we'd be right in the thick of it if we hadn't lost erstad's 2 homers and .310 obp. And if they perform back to their .500 level, that will get us exactly, uh, where? If they perform better than that it won't get us anywhere. What are the players supposed to say: please trade us because this season's hopeless?

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 06:19 PM) He's had some awfully good lineup protection in his career, and sees a ton of pitches, so he's not just getting pitched around. The Reds are never any good, but that's because they have nobody that can pitch other than Aaron Harang and David Weathers. He's a slugger type. Hi Ks, Hi homers, low average. Is that what we really need or do Konerko and Thome fill the slugger bill? We need some .360 OBP in the worst way; one with some speed to hit leadoff; another to replace Dye.

Any decent power hitter in the middle of the lineup will have a decent walk rate. They get pitched around a lot.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 11:20 PM) With Owens, we need speed to replace Erstad and Pods at the top of the line-up. I think Owens will go back down this week if he continues to struggle and they might have to bring up either Sweeney or Anderson again...or Erstad/Pods will come back. Don't forget Torrero, another player Ozzie has no problem with. This goes back to my basic question about Ozzie Guillen. Jerry Owens leads off for Guillen and in a month can't muster a single walk. Not one. How is that possible if Guillen and Walker are really teaching patience? That stat is so bad that it seems they are teaching impatience. Further, the fact that he can't get on base doesn't dissuade Ozzie from leaving up up top. He loves Erstad and his .310 OBP at the top; Except for 1 season (maybe 2) Erstad has been below average at getting on base, but he's exactly what Ozzie wants at leadoff. Where is there any evidence that Ozzie values patience, much less a leadoff man actually being able to get on base? I agree that Sweeney wasn't ready. But neither is Owens, Torrero and Gonzales never will be. It appears that we traded an outfielder with potential for another Ozzie-style low-ceiling utility infielder. I guess the idea is to leave the utility players up as they have limited potential anyway, and they have plenty of role models on this team. Meanwhile, Ozzie-ball is last in the AL in offense and 9 below .500 and dropping.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 09:17 PM) Guillen has been right about every prospect he decided couldn't play. Anderson, McCarthy, and Sweeney have done absolutely nothing to prove Guillen was wrong. I don't think it's the major league coaching staff's fault that Sox prospects don't develop into impact major leaguers. They haven't been given a chance. Ozzie jerks Anderson around; despite a good second half and good spring, he benches him and gives him a handful of at bats in the first month. Sweeney played 1 month. (I certainly hope, Ozzie didn't put him into his dog house; he wasn't hanging around Ozzie, jr, was he?). We don't know that they're busts. Did Ozzie and Walker enable their development and allow them to bring out their best, whatever it may be. On the other hand, Jerry Owens, who has the lowest ceiling of the prospects and a .178 OBP (zero walks) stays up. Gonzales, a potential major league utility infielder, is playing outfield - he's not a serious prospect, but he gets serious playing time. Pretty soon Ozzie won't have any choice - he'll have to play prospects and hopefully he'll try to develop them. They don't need coddling (he does that with Vasquez, and it 's a failure) - they need teaching, leadership and development.

Most of the players on this team don't even know how to bunt. Greg Walker, Joey Cora - that's just comedy. Ozzie isn't exactly surrounding himself with potential successors.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 06:45 PM) Guillen loves Danks and Sweeney, for two, but I'm not going to debate the rest of it all with you because last time you had htis discussion you kept insisting that Ozzie Guillen a. thinks he was a particularly good hitter, that b. Ozzie hates good hitters and c. Ozzie hates OBP all of which is absurd. PS: Ozzie didn't construct the bench. Really, tell me, give me some hope that ozzie gives a whip about OBP. What is there that makes you think he does? I forgot about Guillen's love for Torrero. Another hack at everything hitter. Wouldn't ONE of these players (other than the middle of the order hitters) have a decent OBP or walk rate if Ozzie and Walker cared about or taught plate patience? Hell, Jerry Owens doesn't have a walk all season. Not one. Ozzie calls erstad and his .310 obp a .400 quality hitter. I don't see it.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 06:46 PM) WTF are you talking about. Overhype them? Can you find me the specific person who is overhyping Milledge, Pelfrey, so I can agree with or refute what he (or you) are saying? The media hypes them. Gammons and sundry espn commentators have hyped Millege for 2 years. If Pelfrey were that compelling, wouldn't he be in the Mets' rotation?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 10:58 AM) For the people worrying about Ozzie + rookies/prospects, There's a big difference between having a player with the right attitude sucking and the wrong attitude sucking and taking care of them accordingly. Also: there's a difference between a rebuilding year and a follow up to the World Series and how you baby development. I'm sure Ozzie knows the difference and will put his murderous hatred for his players aside. What I do know, however, is that Ozzie gives his backups more playing time than anyone in baseball, and there's nothing wrong with keeping them so sharp. But let's not confuse that with bad managing. Sure Ozzie gives his backups playing time - look how he loaded the bench - his backups are all swing at everything slap hitters with little patience - the type of hitting ozzie loves. He can stick a cintron or rob out there day after day hitting .230 with no problem - but put a rookie out there and he can't stand it. He has no choice with Fields. What evidence is there that he's willing to develop a young position player? He was unwilling to let Anderson play stellar D in center and bat 9; Sweeney didn't last a month. Right now, he has Gonzales (not a serious prospect) playing left. So who has Ozzie Guillen been willing to develop and teach? What young hitter has this coaching staff improved?

QUOTE(Soxfest @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 04:27 PM) What is the love affair with Arizona infielders? First Cintron and now Richar I just do not see it! Let's hope this guy is a legitimate 2b prospect and not yet another hacker who hits in the image of ozzie guillen.

How much do we ship off? Anyone for whom we get a premium in young players in return. I'd prefer not to trade Garland, Jenks, Danks and re-sign MB. But at the right price.... I'd definitely ship off Contreras, Vasquez, Dye, Konerko, Iguchi, Uribe Erstad or Pods if someone offered us something nice.

The Sox picking up Griffey would be insane. We need young HITTERS; our pitching's pretty good. We need a young hitter, preferably lead-off hitter.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) Rasmus, for those that don't know, is probably the Cards #1 prospect and is considered a 5 tool outfielder. He has shown a ton of patience in the minors... Don't worry - Ozzie and Greg can help rid him of that bad habit.

Another mediocre hitter....just what the Sox need.

I don't see how Walker can keep his job. Maybe it isn't his fault (talent isn't the best; organizational philosophy, etcl) - but someone's got to be responsible for the bottom line. Shut out by a mediocre pitcher.

QUOTE(striker62704 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 03:07 PM) I have to disagree with you. The closer you get to July 31st, the more teams that will be out of the race. Demand goes down, price goes down. Plus, teams would probably give more for a rental player for 3 months than for 2 months. Dye and Iguchi are the only players I see us moving. I think Terrero could replace Dye. Not necssarily '06 Dye, but any other season. I agree - as time passes, there are more sellers and fewer buyers. Also, the sooner you trade a player, the more games he gets to help his new club, which means the new club will pay more for him. On the other hand, right at the deadline, desparate teams do desparate things and you can really make a killing if you get lucky.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 10, 2007 -> 03:44 PM) I pray this is deep, thick sarcasm. I would think not. Dye is worth a lot more than a middle reliever.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 12:48 AM) But lesser of four evils or "maybe not worse than" doesn't get you much, at best, a .500 ballclub. I guess Anderson has now become the poster child (like Rowand) for "what ifs," and I'm not buying it. The same people who think we would be contending with Rowand instead of Thome are probably arguing Ozzie's "vendetta" against Anderson is killing the organization. The problem with all the anti-Anderson stuff is 1) KW is either complicit in it, 2) KW has no balls to go against Guillen's wishes for the ballclub...3) KW and OG are on the same page, for better or worse, despite what everyone here thinks and wishes. Or 4) there is a real rift between KW and OG and we just don't know about it. The argument for Anderson is not that he will bring better production. He probably won't. It's that he's young and might turn out to be a really good player. That's better than guaranteed mediocrity (although Rob M and the rest aren't even delivering mediocrity; and what is Cintron even doing on the team?). Rob M at leadoff; bunting to put the pressure of tying the game on a rookie and Rob M - the Sox sure aren't getting much help from the baintrust either.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 09:19 AM) I completely agree with you but if GIO is truly a #2 guy like everyone on this board says he is, then didn't he get the max for him? You figure a #2 lefty (which I don't beleive) and a past #1 pick (who I think sucks) was pretty good for a guy who lost velocity and will want a 5 year deal next year. Now you and I most likley agree that what we got in return for freddie actaully sucked but the majority of the kids on this board Love the great GIO. Is he a number 2? If so, and if Floyd is a top prospect, we got a steal. I've been waiting for Floyd to come up - why not? I can see leaving Gio down, but unless Floyd's hurt, why not? As for Floyd, of course Kenny wouldn't make a deal unless he thought it a good deal - and that would mean that he thought highly of Floyd. But Floyd was damaged goods and wouldn't command a top prospect price. Hopefully, he will he become a major league pitcher. So we have Rowand, Garcia and a prospect for Thome and Floyd. Assuming that we just don't re-sign MB and Dye, are we going to get a first round draft choice for each in compensation? I know compensation to some extent depends on whether they are class A FAs (which I assume they are, although some real mediocre ballplayers have been class As) (that's almost the deal, not quite as the years are different, but almost). Looks pretty reasonable, overall. Would look even better if Floyd could pitch major league baseball.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 08:48 AM) If Durham was a salary dump, why did KW pick up the biggest portion of his remaining contract that the rules allow? He thought Adkins was a stud. I really don't think he thought Atkins was a stud. I think he didn't know what he was doing and for some reason was hell-bent on dumping Durham (although as you said, not for salary dumping purposes). He also seemed to have convinced himself that Durham had little market value - Remember him saying to the media all that stuff about how there is no market for dumping players (something about the rules on compensation changing). He trusted Beane during that period, which is never a good idea, so he got snookered, plain and simple. Even look at last winter- did he get maximum return in young talent for Freddie Garcia?

1)Leadoff hitter 2)Run producer to replace Dye

None of Sweeney, Fields or Owens was ready this year and the Sox knew they weren't ready. It's unfortunate that they had to be called up this year. Owens obviously has a fairly low ceiling, is a LF, but if he works hard (including learning how to take a walk for goodness sakes - I doubt he'll learn or develop that skill in this organization) he could be a Pods type. Sweeney could be a really good hitter - what is he now, 22? Anderson had a decent 2nd half last year, a good spring and plays stellar defense. That wasn't good enough for Ozzie to stick in the 9 hole and leave alone. Regardless of whose fault it is, Anderson's value is significantly depressed, so his future better be with the Sox because we won't get much for him if we traded him.

There is zero chance that Williams is fired. Williams hasn't been the most adept dumper of veterans in July. He hasn't done it often, but, as I recall, he basically gave Durham, Lofton, Howry and Baldwin away...didn't get any serious talent on paper or otherwise for any of those guys.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) The thought that Girardi was anything but an abominable manager last year is maybe the most incredible farse I've ever seen portrayed in baseball since I've watched it. Why do you say that? I don't know anything about him, except that W/L wise, the Marlins did a lot better than most expected. Just wondering what his story is.