Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE (oldsox @ May 30, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) Has anyone heard if there is movement from B'ham to Charlotte? Check the last post in the minor league catch-all thread.

I've got a feeling this is going to be ugly. Lester is pretty damn filthy. Hopefully Peavy is on his game.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 30, 2011 -> 05:46 PM) My biggest argument about Ozzie that he is a gut-first manager and seemingly doesn't care about statistics. Regardless of your view about sabermetrics vs. naked-eye scouting, statistics can tell you a whole hell a lot on how to manage in certain situations, and it appears that Ozzie doesn't even consult them. Key example was the Corey Patterson base hit where Omar should have been against Thornton on that hit-and-run. I wish I could find a spray chart for Patterson, but he clearly is a dead pull hitter. And Oswaldo goes ahead and allows Omar to cover second instead of Alexei. That is about as egregious as it gets, especially since the Sox have the spray charts which would say he pulls it like 90% of the time. Baseball by far is the most statistically-centric team sport there is. And Ozzie continuously ignores them. I actually didn't think he was that bad initially. But he feels a sense of ultimate entitlement since '05. And it doesn't hurt that Hawk seems to give Ozzie all the credit for the 4 complete games against the Angels. "No manager in the game would've had the stones to leave their guys in that long." Something to that degree.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ May 30, 2011 -> 12:40 PM) Sickels has his 2nd Mock Draft up. 1st Round Supplemental Round As noted before predicting the supplemental round is an absolute shot in the dark, but it's a useful read if one cares to get a feel for the talent that will be available at that point. I'd love for Jackie Bradley Jr, Swihart, Hedges, Meo, Nimmo, Boyd, or Owens to be on the board at 47 but that would require a combination of luck and a willingness by the Sox to open their wallets for a few of the players noted. That's not happening.

Garbage breeds more garbage, I guess. The lack of system depth is perplexing.

I almost wanted to see Dunn in there for comedic purposes. Dunn vs Lester? lol

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 30, 2011 -> 01:59 AM) I don't think he's ever going to be a good major leaguer but I do believe he could have been a guy that was used to net more than Edwin Jackson. You're probably right. But we traded Holmberg AND Hudson for Jackson. And if you believe the rumblings, we didn't even really want Jackson. We got stuck with him because the Nationals told us to f*** off.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 29, 2011 -> 03:28 PM) i am, he was good there but he wasnt committed on the defensive end until he got to boston. imo he became a much more complete player in boston, and it has made him look like a much better player in boston. he always could shoot, he had a few injury problems in seattle though Kyyle, have you seen Rip the last three years? He's giraffe manure...as a starter. If he's playing 30+ minutes a game then we're in trouble. There is no comparison between 2007 Ray Allen and this current version of Rip. The Pistons are trying to banish him away for a reason. And they'll give up their pick to do it.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ May 30, 2011 -> 12:20 AM) One bad game for Kuhn should propel ye olde table setter KW Jr. back into the leadoff spot. I think you hate KW Jr. like I hate Juan Pierre. Oh, and to rub more salt on our farm system wounds. David Holmberg is having a solid season at High A: 4-3, 3.67 ERA, 54 IP, 13 BB, 55 Ks, 1.25 GB/FB ratio.

QUOTE (SpainSOXfan09 @ May 30, 2011 -> 12:17 AM) I wasn´t really expecting a snowball´s chance in hell this would ever happen but maybe in the next CBA there should be a new clause for guaranteed contracts that gives the team the right to re-negotiate or cut players without having to pay. I mean it should be fair just like we have regular evalutaions of our work. I hope he turns it around but it´s not looking good. What are you talking about? They're not going to alter the way player contracts are negotiated because Adam Dunn forgot how to his a baseball for two months.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 29, 2011 -> 10:49 PM) What's wrong with Piniella? Erase the Cubs disaster and go by his body of work in the AL. What would be wrong with Sandberg? He's very very quiet and dull, just what we need after Ozzie. And Joe Torre. He is the answer. I'd bring him in for the Boston series. Three more losses and this road trip was a horrible disaster. Pinella/Torre are crusty old farts who are done. What's your fascination with Sandberg?

greg said Lou Pinella

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ May 29, 2011 -> 10:15 PM) Blame Joe Borchard. After the Chairman threw all that money away on that draft pick, he ain't wasting much more in the draft. Fields, too. and Royce Ring. and Kris Honel. and Jason Stumm. But mostly Borchard, the only guy who could go whiff for whiff with Adam Dunn. That was ten years ago. Get over it (not you). But I think there might be something to that theory. Which is sad.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ May 29, 2011 -> 09:59 PM) I believe they are converting him back into a starter. What an amazing concept.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 29, 2011 -> 09:20 PM) Ok, where did you find this though? I just googled it. The search function hasn't worked here for years. Just type 2010 MLB draft and the date and soxtalk and you should be able to find what you're looking for.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 29, 2011 -> 08:55 PM) Where do all the old non-game threads go? I am looking in particular for the old 2010 draft discussion thread. Are these just deleted? Hidden? Moved somewhere else? Do you want the pre-discussion thread or the actual day 1 draft thread? I'll assume the latter. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77853

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 29, 2011 -> 07:21 PM) You're so much of a "grass is greener" guy. Add Bobby Jenks/Sergio Santos/Phil Humber/Jose Contreras/Matt Thorrnton/Jim Thome to that group....all for basically nothing. I mean produce a list from other organizations of developed players or FA acquistions where virtually no resources were expeneded that blows that away.... I'll give you the success of the Braves/Phillies/Red Sox, and I am not saying we are the best-run organization in baseball. There are certainly others out there that do things extraordinarily well. But I'm not going to slurp on Texas and Colorado and Tampa, who were able to take a developmental path while sucking for years with little or no pressure to succeed. And over the long haul, these organizations have accomplished absolutely nothing that we haven't. But because they happen to have young talent now, you are slurping them, with the luxury of ignoring the past when they were doormats while we were competing for division championships year in and year out. That is a bulls*** way of looking at things and you damn-well know it. Again, you're going back 5-6 years to support your argument. I'm talking right now. What has this franchise produced the last three years? Nothing. And it shows. But that's fine. If you can do it, so can I. A list? I'll humor you. I'm going to assume international free agents and trades count. Because we suck at that former and have been bad at the latter the last 3 years. Red Sox: Ellsbury, Pedroia, Lester, Youk, Buchholz, Papelbon, Bard. Braves: Heyward, McCann, Hanson, Jurrjens, Kimbrel, Venters. And I won't even get into the stable of pitching studs they have waiting in the wings. Now the Phillies are a bit different. Yeah, they've developed Howard, Utley, Rollins and Hamels. But they've had the talent in their system to in like a year and half to add Halladay, Lee and Oswalt. That's f***ing getting it done. Why do you mock the Rockies? They've obliterated Latin America to the tune of Ubaldo, De La Rosa, Chacin. Then they made the spectacular trade to acquire a true 5-tool stud that is Carlos Gonzalez. They've got studs on the way and they're competitive every year without near the payroll as us. And don't pull the NL west crap. The AL central has sucked as well save the Twins. Tampa? Are you serious. Ben Zobrist, Matt Joyce, Matt Garza, Carlos Pena, Wade Davis, Hellickson,. They lost like 50 players last year and they're still holding their own in that monster of a division. And let's not get started on what's in their minors. Texas? Oh I don't know. How about Kinsler, Cruz, Holland. Two amazing trades, the Tex trade and the Hamilton trade. And they had enough to land an ace to lead them to the World series last year. And again, just because they had all those successes don't mean you just stop. They've still got guys to go to. We have NOTHING. And I get so sick of the requisite "they sucked for all those years. they had first round picks every year." crap. If you do your homework, you'll see a lot of the core guys on those teams, past or present, were not first round picks (save for Tampa. But they've made great move after great move to supplement those first round picks). The MLB draft is 50 rounds. Talent all up and down the draft. Talent falls all the time due to signability issues. The talent has been there. And we've failed miserably. You believe in vain. Or you're just naive. This roster for the money being allocated is horses***. Yeah, some guys are horribly underachieving. But to be at the mercy of them turning it around is not a good thing (think Mets). Especially guys like Peavy, who is just about as risk for injury as Mark Prior was, and Rios, the ultimate underachiever. And both contracts are virtually untradeable. I agree with you as far as the late 80's/early 90's go. But that was a long time ago and is not going to happen again with KW and this crap staff in charge.

QUOTE (danman31 @ May 29, 2011 -> 05:05 PM) Charlotte starts at 5:30 Barons lost 14-5 Ugly game. Barons walked 13. Kuhn and Phegley with hat tricks. Marrero 2-3, 2 BB Dash off Hagerstown @ Intimidators Dexter Carter starting, but he's walking a lot right now. I hate Josh Phegley. What an awful pick that early. And everybody knew it. I saw him 5-6 on the big ten network and was not impressed. You had guys like Tyler Skaggs, who's making a mockery of the California league and Tanner Scheppers, who everybody knows has + stuff on the board. But hey, they would cost too much. Had to save some money for Teahen.

QUOTE (High Mileage @ May 29, 2011 -> 05:57 PM) They've been losing quite a few close games lately. The offense has still been picking up the rotation, but that only gets them so far. June 1 (and/or after) should bring in a few more fresh faces.... And I can't wait. I tune into Royals games just to watch Hosmer hit. Hey, and what happened to Jeffress? He got demoted? For what?

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 29, 2011 -> 06:51 PM) He adds 2-3 players a year at basically no cost that turn out to be above-average players. If you look around at other organizations, he does this as well as anyone. This vaunted Twins system you speak of...does it really ultimately produce anything more than what we are able to produce? You and others like to rag on the farm system all the time, but we ultimately produce the same outcome through other means, via trades, waivers, or international free agent signings. We can go down the list and pull out cost-controlled players we have acquired that will basically match or exceed what other organizations are producing. There has been plenty of talent here over the years to win division title after division title, and to advance deep into the playoffs. The problem is the execution on the field. And honestly, I have a hard time pinning that on Kenny. Maybe he isn't getting the chemistry right, perhaps that is his biggest fault But in my opinion, the players have been there, we just aren't getting it done on the field. I blame that on the players first and Ozzie second. The bold is crazy talk. Who the hell are you talking about? This hasn't happened since '07. Danks, Floyd, CQ and Ramirez. And two of those 4 are getting expensive. One is destined to walk via FA. And there's nothing at all in the cupboard. What has happened since then? Are you really that sold on Humber? Or are you just looking for anything? How dare you compare us to organizations like the Braves, Phillies, Rockies, Red Sox,. And then the Rangers and Reds of recent years? Or even Tampa. And I'm not talking about Longoria and Price. What they've done in that division is nothing short of spectacular. And that's not just because they've had some high picks a few years back. Matt Joyce is an MVP candidate right now and they got him for the underachieving guy Coop supposedly loved and he's walking after this year. But let's forget about all this for two seconds. What Kenny has or hasn't done or what's his fault or what isn't his fault. How do you feel about this organization going forward? The future. The outlook. Because that's ultimately what's most important. We can get ito a battle royal over how good KW really. But going forward. How do you feel?

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ May 29, 2011 -> 06:39 PM) Why should Cooper get a free pass? You could probably make a case there has been just as much regression under him. How many games have the pen blown this year? Outside of Crain who came from another organization and Santos, who has gotten better? That one pitch pitcher named Thornton who they believed could close cost them a few games. Cooper's the first guy on the team that starts blaming fans. I think the changes need to also start deeper in the organization. Scouting, development doesn't seem to be getting it done. Change for change sake is what you will get for now. The problems will remain under different names. The jury is still out on Humber (I think he's going to fall and he's going to fall hard before the season is over), but for the time being, you have to give him some credit there. But then what about Jackson? What about Pena? These are guys Coop wanted. How come Nick Masset has been so solid with the Reds, yet he couldn't do s*** here? Why was there such a gross miscalculation on Dan Hudson? Why has Danks and Thornton regressed so much? Coop is not as bad as Walker. Not even close. But he's kinda lost that 'magic' he supposedly had 3-4 years ago.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 29, 2011 -> 06:25 PM) This notion that Kenny has done nothing good is pure nonsense. We just freaking signed Humber and turned him into one of the better SPs in the AL thus far. Sergio Santos has become one of the better closers in the league. These players are under team control at practically nothing if we want them. Kenny went out and signed Adam Dunn, and while it hasn't worked out, I don't really understand how we are going to fault him for a guy that just inexplicably falls of a damn ledge overnight. I realize that Alex Rios is not hitting and Jake Peavy has been injured and hasn't lived up to his massive contract. Fault Kenny for being overly aggressive there if you'd like. But some of this stuff is just ridiculous and inexplicable. The performance of Matt Thornton, John Danks and Adam Dunn thus far this year is so far off their career norms that I am not sure a GM in baseball, or anyone for that matter, could have predicted this. I don't know if it is Ozzie, I don't know if it is the collection of guys in the clubhouse, I don't know if it is the gods of baseball or what...but there is all kinds of talent on this team that that continually underperforms in ways that no one saw coming. I know people want heads to roll and accountability, but I've got news for most folks...there are not too many people in baseball that didn't think Adam Dunn wasn't exactly what the White Sox lineup needed this season. Faulting the FO, and even the on-field management for the way these guys have played is just applying results that could not have been forseen retroatively in some sort of cruel joke. I'm baffled. I didn't love the Dunn signing, but this? No f***ing way did anyone see this coming. Kenny really has done nothing good since '07. How is this a debate? His crowning achievements are Phillip Humber and Sergio Santos? That's all you could come up with? Now I'll totally give you Dunn. I don't know what to say there. But Peavy and Rios were major risks. And he took those risks. I'll give him credit for that. But they haven't worked out. At all. So he deserves criticism. I won't get into our embarrassing mess of a farm. But he has been pretty much the centerpiece of the demise there. The bottomline is this team is a coinflip away from 5 and it's looking like 6 straight missed postseasons since '05. If it's not KW? Who the f*** is it? Ozzie? Well f***ing do something about it. This s*** year after year is gross.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ May 29, 2011 -> 03:28 PM) When Ozzie can take the field and hit, run, catch and pitch and fails to do those things then I will support him being fired In this case, any coach or manager in any sport should have job security for life.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ May 29, 2011 -> 02:52 PM) Is it too much to expect even just ONE hit off a lefty????? I really want to know what the record is for this level of futility. I have no idea how to go about finding it. Seems like a lot of work.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ May 29, 2011 -> 02:56 PM) He was a better DH for the Sox than Dunn has been so far anyway. Sad thing is you're right.