Jordan4life_2007

QUOTE (MattZakrowski @ May 3, 2010 -> 01:59 PM) I'm not totally ruling it out, but he's 28, has been in the Majors for years now, and he's played a decent amount of games a 3rd. He doesn't show any great physical tools that suggest that his issues are rooted in lack of experience. He is what he is, a below average fielder who might be be a positive contributor at the plate. You could very well be right. Personally, I wanted to see him at 3B for a full season before I made any determination.

QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ May 3, 2010 -> 01:41 PM) Not when he's hitting .211 and trading him would mean Mr. Gonzalez would be wearing a White Sox jersey. Yes, giving up on your 23-year old 1st rounder just over 100 PA's into his second season because he's hitting .211 makes perfect sense.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ May 3, 2010 -> 01:34 PM) Much of Gordon's problem has been staying healthy. It has been noted by some that Herm has a pretty good reputation of limiting time loss to the disabled list. Granted, there are many things outside of a trainer's control, but it is worth mentioning. If a guy is injury prone then that's what he is. I don't subscribe to any theory that a trainer can somehow limit player injuries.

QUOTE (MattZakrowski @ May 3, 2010 -> 01:24 PM) In 2005 and 2006 he played only 3rd. That's 237 uninterrupted games. And as for saying so himself, what's he supposed to say, "No, I just suck, now can I have my contract extension?" It's not out of the realm of possibility that a guy could improve at a position over time, especially 4-5 years time. And the Sox brass also believed that with the opportunity to focus on one position that he could improve there. Nothing earth shattering about that line of thinking.

QUOTE (The Beast @ May 3, 2010 -> 01:19 PM) Two things. Pods for Pierre. Second, why do we as Sox fans believe that Cooper and Schneider or individuals on our staff can fix these fringe of MLB players? Herm Schneider? Why is he even being mentioned? And I'd say Don Cooper has just a tad bit of history of helping guys realize their potential (yes, I know he can't "fix" everybody). And AG is not a "fringe" MLB player.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 3, 2010 -> 01:05 PM) Good question. The Royals have a great young core of arms coming up in their system, but each of them is one to two years away. They also have Eric Hosmer a 1b and Moustakas at 3b, making those positions less of a necessity. Edit: This is going to be controversial but given how young Gordon is, coupled with the Teahen extension, i'd really consider offering a package of Morel and Torres (potentially, with a guy like Shelby positioned as filler) and see if Dayton Moore bites. Controversial? Morel? Torres? Shelby? lol. They could have those three and more (outside of the "big 4" for a former #2 draft pick and consensus top 3 prospect in all of baseball just a few years ago. Gordon was a 2.1 and 2.3 WAR player in 2007 and 2008. And I believe he was just barely scratching the surface before the injuries came into play.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 3, 2010 -> 09:52 AM) I wouldn't be surprised one bit if going down and facing pitchers that he's confident he can hit is a necessary step for him. In 745 career PA in the minors his line is: .326/.439/.584/1.023 Suffice it to say there's not a damn thing left for him to prove or any confidence to be gained by obliterating minor league pitching when he's obviously shown that's not a problem.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 3, 2010 -> 06:40 AM) Excuses are for people who fail. Obviously Teahen is full of excuses. Exactly when do we see him taking off as a great defensive thirdbaseman? He played a lot of 3B last year. Played it all of spring training, and a month into the season and he's still terrible. When does he become at least adequate? When his contract runs out? He's played plenty of 3B in his career for everyone to know he's not very good at it. Sort of like why the Sox don't put Paulie at SS. There is no sample size to judge, but you know he wouldn't be good there. The Konerko analogy is terrible. And nobody said he could be Evan Longoria over there. I don't think a guy saying that the opportunity to play one position full-time for the first time in his career should only help him is making excuses for past performance. But that's just me.

I'd be on this like a bum on a sandwich. Gordon has been dicked around by a truly inept organization. I have no clue what the Royals would want or where he'd fit in with the Sox, but this isn't a bad idea at all.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 3, 2010 -> 12:33 AM) He really needs a change of scenery. Still very young, but he is approaching bust territory, though the Royals have dicked around with him. I would drool if the sox got him based on potential alone as I love the guy. He would be tied for 3rd in OBP alone on our ballclub right now. The guy obliterates minor league pitching every chance he gets. I have no idea what that dumbf*** organization is doing.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ May 2, 2010 -> 11:22 PM) My brother is a big Cubs fan and he said as some others that their woeful bullpen has cost them a number of games. Their starting pitching has been pretty good and hitting wise they're streaky both ways. From what i've seen I like Marlon Byrd and I think that Colvin kid has a chance to become a decent player if he ever gets a real chance. Other than the Mets, and they lost 3/4 to them, they haven't played anybody. They've got 6 games with the Pirates/Reds coming up. After that 16 of their next 20 games come against the Marlins, Rockies, Phillies, Rangers and Cardinals. They'll be exposed. Not that they're good right now.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ May 2, 2010 -> 11:24 PM) I will admit that it's early and I'm not totally counting the Sox out but if they can't get going soon they'll be toast. That's what I call analysis.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ May 2, 2010 -> 11:36 PM) Scheppers was a signability guy. Texas paid him $1.25m which is more than the Sox gave Mitchell, so it's not the same at all. Stanton was just great scouting and player development by the Marlins. He wasn't considered an elite draft prospect, Baseball America had him ranked 128th pre-draft, perfect game in the 5th round rage and he signed for more or less slot money in the 2nd round. See my response to ace. Like I said, more needs to be devoted to scouting/draft. Obviously the way we're currently doing things isn't working. I wasn't even really citing Scheppers and Stanton as examples. This has been a problem WAY before those two guys came out.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ May 2, 2010 -> 11:20 PM) If I'm not mistaken, he had signability issues and/or teams were scared off he was seriously committed to college. Stanton was a 1st rounder on talent alone, and a top 5 high school recruit. And you weren't around J4L when I was clamoring (as was fathom, SoxFan1, Jason, etc..) for Scheppers in the last draft. I liked that kid alot, didn't love him (as say.. Rex Brothers/Luke Bailey) as he was asking for alot of dough (1st round money) and was comming off of Tommy John surgery though he did have 1st round stuff. I did like the Phegley pick though. Dude can rake it, just hasn't translated it with the wood bat. EDIT: Here was the thread last year. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72142 This just reinforces the fact that instead of putting 100+ million into incredibly flawed major league rosters every year that more needs to be devoted to the draft. I'm not even talking about Stanton. This organization is just clueless when it comes to identifying, let alone actially signing, premier talent. And Beckham does not count. Not even I could've botched a top 10 pick in the '08 draft. And I for one hated the Phegley pick. And many of the "experts" thought he was a severe overdraft. There's doubt that he can even stick at catcher. Making the pick even more despicable. And I, like you, liked Scheppers a lot. I knew he was asking for a lot. And like usual, we passed. And that's a reason why this team is running in quicksand right now. Oh, and did you know the Marlins were REALLY, REALLY close to taking Heyward with the 12 pick in 2007? They obviously went with Matt Dominguez instead. But could you imagine Heyward/Stanton in the same organization? Sick.

Proposed a Russell Martin/Felix for Mauer trade a few days ago. Gets accepted and now it's looking like he's going to end up on the DL. Hooray!

Mike Stanton having a season for the ages (and it's only May 2). .354/.505/.866/1.370. What's most impressive is the 25/24 BB/K ratio. Hard to believe this guy was a second rounder. And you know we'd never be able to identify a super talent like this (I know, I know. Other teams passed on him too). Just saying that the crock of s*** that was "well, the Sox haven't had a top 10 pick since 1990" is exactly that...a crock of s***. Another guy that's been making a mockery of AA is Tanner Scheppers. Small sample size (11 innings). But the numbers are beyond filthy: 11 IP, 3 H, 1 ER, 0 BB, 19 K, .079 BAA. We're too busy drafting the Josh Phegley's of the world 6 picks earlier.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 2, 2010 -> 07:51 PM) They have been able to hit, they have just had a problem knocking runners in, and of course Lee & Ramirez have been awful. As mentioned, their bullpen blew some games early too. Their schedule was talked about in season previews cause it was so easy, and they definitely have not taken advantage of it, they have two more weeks until they start playing real teams. I hope they enjoy Silva & Gorzelanny, cause there is no way they keep up what they are doing. As overpaid and bad in the field Soriano is, man, when that guy gets hot, he can carry a team for a few weeks easy. He's the best player in the league at his absolute peak of hotness. Problem is there's been no inbetween with him the last 3-4 years. Cubs fans should enjoy it while it lasts.

QUOTE (MattZakrowski @ May 2, 2010 -> 06:03 PM) Agreed, but even when used properly, Teahen's UZR150 for his career is -12.8. That's over 384 games from 2005-now, enough time to make it clear that he's mediocre at 3B with the glove. And before this year he had never gotten a chance to settle in at one position. We've never seen him play ONLY third for a FULL year. Not everybody can move around all over the place and provide an above average glove. Teahen himself before the season said as much. QUOTE (GREEDY @ May 2, 2010 -> 07:18 PM) Your reply is neither correct or appreciated. Yes, we are using small sample size, but today's plus minus score is 100% accurate based on his play thus far this season. You don't need to see someone play a full season to judge how someone has played in 25 games. You want a cookie? Fine. For the first 21 games (19 starts) in his first season playing strictly one position, Teahen has not played a good 3B. Much more data will be required before any legitimate conclusion of his overall defense can be made. That's much more important to me than a 19 game sample size.

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Apr 30, 2010 -> 05:15 PM) I'm officially starting the campaign for you to win the 2010 Scouting Award. Yeah, OB does a great job. And it's nice to see Hudson alleviating some of the concerns about his slow start with a dominant performance today.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 2, 2010 -> 05:35 PM) 1) Beckham has proven he can successfully adapt and transition defensively to 2B (his third position in a year), and only needs a few more weeks to get things straightened out mentally. If he's still struggling at the end of May, we can always send him to Charlotte and we have capable replacements in Nix and Vizquel to hold down the fort in the meantime. 2) Sergio Santos...watching him well up in THE CLUB preview is perhaps the coolest thing to happen this year, along with #5 and #8 on this list. 3) Alex Rios is the player who we're no longer worrying about carrying that long-term contract anymore. 4) Andruw Jones has been better than anyone could ever have expected in his role. 5) John Danks has become one of the two three lefty starters in baseball. 6) Matt Thornton, despite his occasional glitches, has been one of the top 2-3 lefty set-up guys in baseball, and would fetch us as much as any player on this team at the moment if KW placed him on the market. 7) Bobby Jenks has gotten the job done, just look at his Saves/SO stat, the back of his TOPPS baseball card begins and ends there. 8) Paul Konerko is the AL Offensive Player of the Month, giving KW flexibility to trade him if necessary in order to clear salary space. Even if traded, there's a better than 50/50 chance KW could bring him back to the White Sox for a 2-3 year extension if they decided Viciedo wasn't ready to go at season's end. 9) Pena and Putz have acquitted themselves well, and Putz will only get better (as he builds his fastball and splitter back up to previous "closer form" each day removed from surgery). Along with Andruw Jones and Konerko, Putz will be among the most sought-after pitchers on our roster due to KW's insightful contract. Pena's making the minor league guys forget about Brandon Allen. 10) We have immediate, impactful prospects at the AA/AAA level in D2, Flowers (murdering the ball), Viciedo, Hudson, Santeliz, Shelby and CJ Retherford. 11) Trayce Thompson has a better than 50/50 chance of becoming one of the Top 20 prospects in baseball, and a dominant offensive force that you build an organization around, to go along with Beckham, Danks and Quentin as franchise centerpieces. 12) Biting the bullet and trading Buehrle to the Cardinals nets us a boatload of prospects....and they'll be willing to pay a "premium" to acquire him. 13) We stayed afloat on this road trip and can start to do some damage in the standings to the Twins'/Tigers' hot starts with a good 5-2 or 6-1 streak, led by the starting pitching all winning and each performance building on the previous one like in 2005 and 2008. They're simply too talented to not get it figured out for at least a 2-3 month stretch in a season. Just like the 2001 team that started 14-29 only to get to 8 games over .500, or the 1983 team that stumbled to 16-24 and ended up winning the division going away, by 30 games. Shall I go on? I disagree with about 75% of this post. But you get props for not once mentioning how wonderful you think the Twins are.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 2, 2010 -> 05:20 PM) Well, our own GM said he had a trade made for Halladay, but we couldn't come up with the funds. Yes, because if not for Pierre/Teahen we could've easily added a 20 million dollar a year pitcher. No doubt about it

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 2, 2010 -> 04:29 PM) And of that list I see two bench players, a bunch of guys who are going to play better, one bad contract reliever, and a guy who will be in Charlotte by the end of the week. I'm counting on those two bench players playing like the bench players they are. The crippling the payroll part: go look at their contracts and see what we're paying them for the next 2-3 years. Bench players with minimal upsides getting paid like starters hurts flexibility a lot more than paying a legitimate superstar market value. If the difference between being able to afford Gonzalez and not being able to afford Gonzalez is the amount we're paying Pierre in 2011 or Teahen in 2011 or 2012, and if those players are playing at a level where we could replace or nearly replace them at the league minimum, then we're in a bad spot. Edit: And BTW, my point is about not continuing to do these things. Adrian would be cheap through 2011 so only Teahen's deal could potentially hurt us there, but the point was that those players I named (Pierre, Teahen, Linebrink) aren't movable, therefore they hurt flexibility much more than a talented player you could simply dump if you had to. Sorry, you won't convince any rational human being that the 4 million being paid this year and next year to Pierre and the 3.7, 4.7 5.5 million being paid to Teahen through 2012 will in anyway keep the team from adding impact players. You're just fishing for something to complain about. And what's your definition of a "bench" player? If JP is hitting .300, hell, even .280, he's a lot better than a "bench" player. Teahen has been up and down to this point. Still way too early to deem him a "bench" player.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ May 2, 2010 -> 04:15 PM) Agree with this too, that Jones may be over his head (although he really really looks good) and Paulie will certainly come down. But I'm factoring in Alexei, Beckham, and AJ playing better too, which IMO they will. It's mainly Teahen and Pierre that makes us suck, and swapping out our worst offensive player in Pierre for an elite offensive LH dynamo kind of changes the picture around a bit, plus it hopefully creates a chain of events that has Teahen taking the pressure off and performing well out of the 9 hole. No, it's mainly Pierre, Teahen (who hasn't been anywhere near as bad as you're making him), Beckham, CQ, AJ, 'Lexi, Peavy, Buehrle, Linebrink, Williams, ect. I have no idea why you're singling out Pierre and Teahen. You've somehow convinced yourself that what they're currently being paid is crippling the payroll.

QUOTE (chw42 @ May 2, 2010 -> 03:53 PM) The problem with using defensive metrics at this point in the season is that the sample size is not large enough. This tells you nothing about Teahen's skills as a defender. UZR and +/- need far larger sample sizes to truly measure a player's defensive ability. Both have large fluctuations. Yup. Teahen's UZR, +/- could look radically different a couple weeks from now. I like the new defensive metrics. But a lot of people have no idea how to utilize them.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ May 2, 2010 -> 03:57 PM) I don't have a problem with him pitching in Double-A. It doesn't make sense for the Nats to have him in the Majors now due to service time and losing that extra year of cheapness, and he's clearly too good for the minors, so does it really make much difference if he's dominating double-A lineups compared to dominating triple-A lineups? Not at all. I just found it silly for them to say that today's start would dictate whether they move him to AAA or not.