BobDylan

He'll be back. I don't want him back, but he will be.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 10:07 PM) That seems about right. Good ole Charlie.

QUOTE (robinventura23 @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 01:07 PM) This is a great thread. I hate the fans more than the team. Lee, Ramirez, etc. are all great players. It's the fans that get on my nerves. Just today, I've been receiving emails, text from my Cub fan friends gloating about the sweep. It's rather annoying and kinda immature. Just a question for everyone, though. If the tables were turned would you/we do the same? If we sweep them next weekend, I'll be glad we swept them to a) hopefully keep our hold on first place B) shut Cub fans up. I won't be sending silly messages to people. I used to because that series used to mean more. Since 2005 and when the banner went up, it's just another three games in the race. If the Cubs ever win a World Series again, they might look at it the same way. The effect of both teams being in first place probably only made it seem like "that much more" to them, and I think they want a little bit of our respect from it, so I can't really blame them for being childish about it. They seek what we've already seen. If the Cubs fans ever see their players jump around on a pitching mound like we saw the Sox in Houston, they'll realize, too, that nothing needs to be said. So I say let them have their fun. It won't matter if they don't hoist a banner.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 06:30 PM) In my mind, Vazquez is the best starter the Sox have. He's durable, has fantastic stuff, and he's put up results. He's struggled with his command the past few outings, but he'd start game 1 of a playoff series if I were the manager. That, to me, makes him the best pitcher. That's what's hilarious about this site. People are suggesting that pitchers are or aren't the best starter based on 3 starts. Going based on the last year and a half or so, you won't find a better, more durable pitcher than Vazquez on the White Sox staff. He's thrown the most innings and I'd quickly guess has the second best ERA to Buehrle, but it'd be something like a 3.85 ERA for Buehrle and a 3.95 ERA for Vazquez, which is maybe one or two runs. But, whenever the lights are on him, better have a plumber and a surplus of toilet paper. Numbers aren't everything. Javy has no balls. I'm not saying to "give him some rest" or that he's not the best starter on the team. I'm saying he has no balls and he's not the pitcher I want out there in a must win situation.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 11:25 PM) In the summer, when the wind blows out. The ball jumps out like a lazer. I know. I've seen it for myself several times. But it ain't the same.

QUOTE (LosMediasBlancas @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 11:21 PM) They know something their opponents don't. Like what?? They are able to time when the jet streams are coming and know exactly when to step into the batter's box?? If I knew, then they may not have such a stellar home record!! It's the same thing as Fenway Park. It seems pretty obvious... just hit the big f***ing wall... but it's not.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 11:15 PM) Wrigley should work for our team. If you can hit at the Cell you can hit at Wrigley. Check out the park factors, our park ranks ahead of Wrigley. At the cell, left field faces the lake and the ball blows out to left and center all the time. You get the ball up at the cell, it goes out. The same thing at Wrigley. The difference is, we either hit the ball straight up ( your typical crede popup), or we hit it on the ground. You want to know the issue. Danks kept the ball on the ground. Dotel is a flyball fastball pitcher. Guess which one will get hurt at a home run park. Contreras was wild and couldnt throw his fork for a strike, Marquis who is crappy is still a sinkerballer. Dempster has a sinker and a splitter. Vaz is a flyball pitcher. Keep the ball down and you will survive. This is why Kenny has been so huge on drafting guys with sink. Props. But I'm not ready to say the wind blowing out in left at Wrigley is the same at Comiskey. Comiskey deals more with swirling winds because of the billboards blocking the ugly part of the city.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 09:38 PM) I had a feeling this would happen after the 1st game. They lose a tough game like that when they had it at hand...pissed away multiple opportunities...and curl up in a fetal position the rest of the series. They did it in Toronto...Tampa...Detroit..and now at Wrigley. This team really has no LEADERS WITH NADS!!!!!!!!!! Was Swisher supposed to be that guy? Cabrera? Konerko wears the C, but he's not a vocal leader. In 2005, a lot of people say it was Rowand. Either way, I don't see many people busting ass like they did that one special year.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 10:08 PM) Oh I'm not denying that the Cubs know how to play Wrigley better than the Sox. But fatigue can't be a factor here. That's just funny to me. Agree 100% on that.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 09:36 PM) So, did they play with wind going out, and we played with wind going in? No one makes this thread if we hit a s***load of them out, wind-aided or not. Just give it up, we got killed. I already stated it in another thread, but I think there is something to be said about the difference in distance. The White Sox hitters pounded theirs out and didn't need aid. The Cubs, not so much. If you tell me that it is just pure luck that the Cubs hitters caught all those jet-streams, I won't believe you. They know something their opponents don't. But don't mistake this for an excuse. The Sox deserved to get beat up and down.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 09:39 PM) In this case I'm sure driving to a different spot in the city 8 miles to the north was just murderous. I think there is more to it then that. It's still a ballpark the players aren't quite familiar with. From the wind to the clubhouse. The Cubs do have more of a home field advantage, as do the Red Sox, than other teams around the league. Aramis Ramirez hit a homer off Octavio Dotel in game 2 that was an obvious pop-up. He stood at the plate knowing it was going over the fence. There is a thread up about the "true" distance of the homers hit in the series. The Sox pounded theirs out. The Cubs didn't. If somebody sat there and told me that it is just dumb luck to catch all those jet-streams, I wouldn't believe them. They know something their opponents don't. It's not an aberration that the Cubs struggle on the road. That said, they still kicked the s*** out of the Sox. There are no excuses for that.

QUOTE (ROC Sox Fan @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 10:10 PM) We'll sweep the Dodgers, everything will be fine and dandy, then the Cubs will sweep us again, it will be all doom and gloom, and the ridiculous streakiness will continue all season as we pound the teams we're supposed to beat and lose to the real contenders. UGH. Wanna bet?

http://puzzlefarter.com/

QUOTE (Noberto Martin @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 05:46 PM) Best fielder? I mean he's good but come on. Ichiro Hunter Cameron Jones Tavares Sizemore Granderson Ellsbury Crisp Upton Rowand are all better or equal to Anderson. He's just another failed 1st round pick for the Sox and not worth a roster spot Ellsbury? Just because a player doesn't make web gems every night doesn't mean he's not in the category of the CFer's who do. Unfortunately I don't have a BP subscription, so I can't show you truly how good he is out there. But it's funny that you mentioned Rowand. The sheer fact that you put him on the list tells me you haven't seen enough of BA out in the field, or you just simply don't know what you're looking at. Rowand, although a good defensive center fielder, is not in Brian Anderson's league.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 01:11 AM) Actually, I am not talking about Walk with this post. Walk wasn't around Sweeney long enough to have a chance to make changes. Walk has nothing to do with this at all. I am pointing at the minor league instruction overall. Sweeney was a home grown prospect. I only hope Buddy Bells influence helps change our preparation of minor league talent. My mistake then. I still want to blame Walker though.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 12:15 AM) Vazquez has a 4.8 ERA lifetime against CHC, Dumpster has a 3.8 ERA lifetime against us. The difference is Vazquez has 83+ career IP vs. the Cubs. Dempster has 7 vs. the Sox. That measly 7 innings is probably bad news for the Sox. And most of us know how Javy likes to s*** his pants on the stage.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 21, 2008 -> 11:59 PM) Funny, as you would probably see the same posts on Philly boards about Floyd, and on the Texas boards with Danks(I know he didn't pitch for them, but his AAA numbers weren't impressive in the least). It goes both ways. I have a feeling SSI is pointing his finger at Greg Walker. Ryan Sweeney is a contact hitter who goes to all fields. Take him out of a homer heavy organization, and suddenly the talent that we knew (thought) he had translates. You're right, though, it does go both ways. The White Sox, in terms of developing hitting, either need to find guys that fit Walker's philosophy, or reevaluate who is leading the hitting corps. I have a feeling somebody is going to say that a hitting coach really doesn't do all that much, but if Cooper is going to get praise for Loaiza, Contreras, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, etc., then Walker takes the blame for what's happened to this offense the past two years and the players who slipped through the cracks. And besides, I truly believe Greg Walker is where to point the finger at with this offense. It is astounding to see so many Major League hitters on the same team, many with colorful resumes, look so effing clueless this often at the plate. Sure, guys slump, but not for 2 full years.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 12:09 AM) out of curiosity, anyone good with stats know our record vs. below .500 teams compared to .500 or above teams? vs. .500 teams, they are 8-12. The rest, well, the math is pretty simple.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 21, 2008 -> 09:44 PM) No. It missed the foul pole and hit something behind it in foul territory If that's your reasoning for it coming back onto the field, well, it's obvious in the replay that it bounces off the people in the stands back onto the field. I don't know how you can say that so confidently with all the pictures already in this thread, plus Hawk and DJ talking about it today. I also don't know why I care anymore.

I just realized... who the hell would come to the Sox game with a sign that reads, "Run Paulie Run!"?

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 21, 2008 -> 06:14 PM) Check his track record. It's not uncommon for good players to have bad years. We've got a few on our team this year. Does anyone think that Eric Hinske is a better player than Nick Swisher? Taveras is a better player than Anderson, Owens, or any CF in our minor league system so far. Also, I just checked and Willy is hitting .324 over his last ten games. He'll be back on track soon enough. While his OBP is never going to astound you, he's capable of getting on as much as Pods did for us in 2005 or as much as Cabrera, our current lead-off hitter, gets on. If you can find a better lead-off option then that's great, he could be a nice #2 hitter instead. Either way he's an improvement over Anderson, who I like btw, in CF for now and likely an improvement in the future. And he's worlds better than Owens. I just took a look at his numbers and he's not as bad as I thought. But how cheaply are we talking? And what suggests he's available if he's still in his arbitration years? I would not mind adding this player. But it puts the Sox in a pinch unless they want to do a rotating DH to keep players active at the plate. Because adding a CF cuts Swisher out of the loop. I still would love to add Ellis or Grudz at 2B too. Cut ties with Pablo, bring up Owens and suddenly they've got a line-up built around speed and contact.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 21, 2008 -> 06:16 PM) Knowing Ozzie, he will put a healthy Owens in the leadoff role. Explanation: "The keed is fast".

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 21, 2008 -> 05:26 PM) Roberts is not a Free Agent until after 2009 though. Ah, my mistake. Thought he was a FA this offseason. That'll just add to the price.

I think every game before the stretch run is rather important. I don't think the White Sox can afford to play .500 ball right now. They were sitting pretty for a second with a 6.5 game lead but let that slip away quickly. Their schedule in July is where a move has to be made. If it's not, I'd doubt the Sox to win the division or make the playoffs. The reason I say this is because neither Floyd or Danks has thrown 200 innings in their professional careers. To expect them to pitch with this same effectiveness down the stretch while needing to win games is insane. Contreras has pitched merely average the past 4 starts, and absolutely pathetic this last one. While it's not time to say Jose is cooked and back to his 2007 form, it's not encouraging. Besides, he's never put together a full season where he was stellar start to finish. Do we expect him to do it this year? They need to create a cushion that allows them to play .500 or even a little below .500 baseball in the later half of August into September. If they can't afford to put out some veteran gas can on the hill every five days to take a few punches for the team, they won't make it. Unless they start limiting the innings Broadway and the minor league pitchers toss, they probably won't be able to ask them for many innings in September, either. And just as much, the White Sox need to solve the offensive problems, and they need to solve them now. Inconsistency won't get them anywhere. If it means doing something ridiculous with the line-up, do it.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 21, 2008 -> 06:06 PM) I agree. I was talking more about next year anyway. I don't think we've got the goods to make a big run at one of those guys this year, and Figgins won't be available until the offseason - and that's if they can pick up another bat, which I think they will this time as they've struck out quite a bit over the last couple of seasons, minus Torii Hunter. I think next year since both of those guys will have only one year left the price will come down a ton, and the price of some of our guys on the farm will have risen. Shelby and Poreda might be the centerpieces of a trade in December whereas now they don't quite have that value IMO. It's interesting that we're having this discussion in two different threads. I don't think Figgins will come any cheaper in the off-season after the Angels have acquired a 3B. Roberts might be work forking some cash over to if he's not traded and resigned.