Marty34

Just a reminder, Sox are on the hook for a total of $21M to Ramirez for his 33 and 34 y.o. seasons in '14 and '15. Nice going Hahn.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 10:22 PM) One thing he knows for sure. Whatever our season ticket base is now, let's say 16-18,000 per game, it's going to be cut down to 7500 to open next season if Guillen, Walker, Williams, Dunn and Rios are all back. It might even be down to 5,000, but the last thing he can afford to do is cut payroll by $30 million, lose Buehrle, bring in no new talent or reason for hope (other than Viciedo) and not change a a single thing operationally/strategically in terms of the direction of the franchise. I don't think JR is dumb. Something has to give between now and the end of December. It simply has to. The lease guarantees 2M tickets sold. The state will pick up the difference. Of course, they take a hit on concessions, parking, etc without the actually people in the stands.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 09:51 PM) Yes, also the five best moves to. Because he's the GM. And listening to Ozzie on Thome was easily the most damaging. Disagree, Hollywood's hiring of his thief buddy was more damaging than that.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Aug 4, 2011 -> 09:50 PM) Hi Joe. You forgot to meet your "Hollywood" quota in this post. That was played out a long time ago. You must still have dial-up.

Guillen's time is up, no doubt about it. However, the idea that him continuing to bat Dunn clean up is holding this team back is ridiculous. Nothing Guillen has done has damaged this team as much as Dave Wilder, KW's best friend, being indicted. In fact, if you make a list of the five most damaging moves to this franchise since 2005 ALL of them would be on Williams.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 06:08 PM) It is a real concern that is completely glossed over by the melt it down crowd. Even after a minimal move like the Jackson deal, there were already people starting to talk about White Flag trades. Because of the history of this organization, you can't sell off everything, and expect people to show up. I'm not even talking about the 10% drop. I am talking about a massive drop off. If we sold off completely the season ticket base would drop by a large percentage, as would the payroll. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have seen a $70 to $75 million payroll in 2012. In our case that would mean Dunn, Rios, and maybe Konerko somehow. That number would death spiral until our farm system started producing. Which if you are talking about a real turnover, you would be talking about 3 to 5 years, if it worked. Silly argument. The ST base dropped last year after a winning season and payroll increase. Sox history shows that they have to win first, sell tickets later. With the economy as bad as it is this is the best time to rebuild - well last year or the trade deadline would have been better, but that's another story. There's no White Flag here Sox fans are calling for a tear down.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 05:55 PM) Greg and Marty (with the possibility of SS2k5?) are the only people left on the site that don't believe Ozzie needs to go. My view is it can't just be Guillen who goes. Hollywood is most responsible for this mess.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 04:58 PM) But KW appears to have matured over the years, while Ozzie appears to keep getting worse. Great. Only I just can't overlook the little fact that Hollywood has assembled an expensive mediocre team.

The rebuilding has to be accelerated and to compensate for CQ & Thornton's loss in value from the trade deadline to the offseason I believe everyone not named Sale has to be on the block. Santos and especially Ramirez should not be considered safe.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 3, 2011 -> 04:25 PM) Yeah, you, j4l, and myself were ridiculed and vilified for seeing the forest through the trees quite a long time ago. I was a Lead Dog in this.

I don't care what they spend next year or the year after. I want to see players who will be part of the next championship on that field.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2011 -> 07:18 PM) Trading Jackson for a righty reliever did wonders for us this weekend! It is so infuriating how many bad decisions this organization has made the last three years. There is no excuse for Thornton to still be on this team. The idea that the outcome of the final six games before the deadline decides whether the team is kept together is beyond ridiculous.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 31, 2011 -> 07:03 PM) Oh GMAFB. It is. It's been the best in the AL since what, May? Go back to praising Ozzie's great lineups. The pitching isn't great. Sorry to offend you.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 31, 2011 -> 06:33 PM) We have become the Seattle Mairiners. Great pitching attached an abortion of an offense. The pitching is not great.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 31, 2011 -> 01:43 PM) Are you taking your talents to South Beach when Oney's dad is sent packing. That was played out a long time ago.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 31, 2011 -> 01:37 PM) Sox fans wont come to the park during a rebuild, ownership knows this and thats why you most likely wont ever see the Sox do a complete rebuild. It does not matter if they come to the park. The Sox have guaranteed revenue streams that would net them somewhere between $40M-$50M if they went to a $60M-$70M payroll.

They should absolutely be concerned with their rotation depth. If they don't deal for a starter, does this signal Sale moving to the rotation?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 30, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) 1.) What do ya mean? Are stores all closed? Just wondering. I would think it's the economy. I hear people b****ing about movie prices. Why would anybody go to a major league baseball game at full price? Most people want good seats not upper tank. If good seats cost that kind of money, people probably take their family or nephew once or twice a year and go to minor league games the other times An observation that the south Chicago area has been hit harder than most places in Illinois by the economy. Foreclosures, business closing, etc. I've gone to south side bars on Friday nights that were packed a few years ago, now they're empty.

If you're anywhere on the south side of Chicago or the southern suburbs you know the economy is the reason.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) White Sox/Rockies trade? Wow. That would be between arguably the two worst GM's in baseball.. QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 03:32 PM) Um, no. O'Dowd is a really bad GM.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 29, 2011 -> 03:15 PM) What if he hits 17 more HRs and knocks in 40 RBIs over the next 2 months? Value still higher now because team that trades for him only has him for 1 year.

No on Born. No on Quentin being here past Sunday. His value will never be higher than it is right now, imo.

Cowley's the only Chicago guy you can trust when it comes to the Sox.

Quentin has to be traded because in my view Viciedo is a more capable replacement for Quentin than Humber is for Jackson for the rest of the year. That said, Humber might be ok. Why not win the division and rebuild at the same time.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 28, 2011 -> 06:22 PM) I look at our roster, and there's not one person outside of Santos that should be untouchable. Sale ahead of Santos.