fathom

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 29, 2007 -> 11:07 PM) I dunno, we lost 1 year of Foulke before he hit FA right? Yes, Koch sucked. But Cotts had a dominant 05 to help us win a ring and has been turned into another hard thrower who may well wind up being another good releiver. Yep, at least the trade resulted in a huge cog for our WS team. It's funny how KW went after Koch because he wanted a hard thrower in the bullpen. Koch is similar to a lot of our relievers now....declining velocity, shaky command, and trouble getting the big out.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ May 29, 2007 -> 11:00 PM) I knew someone who pick that one. Amazing. A trade that has worked out fabulously for us, and its somehow one of the worst ever. In five years, sure, we may look back and wish we had Young. MAYBE. Or maybe not. Either way, we got an above average SP for a big question mark, so its kind of ridiculous to even mention it as one of the worst trades ever. How's it worked out fabulously? Vazquez sucked for the Sox last year, is making a ton of money, and the guy we traded Young for in order to make room (Anderson), is already back in the minors. Chris Young is going to be a damn good player in this league, and is definitely worth more than Mr. 102-108.

I'll be stunned if Perez isn't up with the big league team within the next 2 months.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ May 29, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) Re-signing Podsednik is one of the worst signings. That signing went far beyond Pods, and had such a dramatic impact on this 2007 team. Javy Vazquez for Chris Young

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ May 29, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) You are confusing arrogance with confidence/competitive nature but seeing as you want them both fired ASAP I can understand why you say that. There wasn't a bigger fan of KW during the offseason prior to 2005 than myself. He was making moves that made sense. Hell, I even agreed with the Lee for Pods deal. However, after the 2005 season, he became arrogant and thought that Cooper could fix any pitcher and that Ozzie would gel any combination of players into a championship team. KW's comments during this last offseason were pathetic though. QUOTE(WCSox @ May 29, 2007 -> 09:59 PM) 2005 was mostly the result of a few players having career years (Garland, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson), others having near-career years (Buehrle, Garcia), and a few more getting hot down the stretch (Contreras, Crede, Jenks). That said, I don't think that they would've gone all of the way without the intensity brought to the team by Ozzie and AJ and the cameraderie between guys like AJ, Crede, and Rowand. That intensity carried over into last year, where a team with below-average pitching went on to win 90 games in the toughest division in baseball. As much as some people like to throw Ozzie and KW under the bus for their arrogance, what they brought to the organization worked pretty well for two years. Their time may be up, but it's difficult to argue with their track record. If you're going to give the "arrogance" credit for their 2006 win total, then why aren't they criticized for blowing a 6 game Wild Card lead at the All-Star break? Whatever Ozzie was doing right from the start of the 2005 season to the 2006 ASB is no longer working, as we've played below .500 for far too long now.

QUOTE(Steff @ May 29, 2007 -> 08:59 PM) This monster was created when folks chose to give all the credit to Kenny and Ozzie for winning the world series and will go on until a new manager and gm win another.... I think another monster was created after winning the WS, and that was the monster known as the arrogance of KW and Ozzie.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ May 28, 2007 -> 06:35 PM) IF that was all it took, count me in. But I think you'd have to find a way for salaries (albeit you could probably sign Gordon to a fat contract and that would help even out the salaries). He cheated on his wife. I'm not saying I'd cheat, but that is all he did. The rest was bunch of bulls***. And well, fact is if you are going to hate on athletes for cheating than your going to probably hate almost every athlete out there. I really like Kobe. Like you said, if you're going to start hating on guys that cheat, you might as well hate 90 pct of the guys. Kobe Bryant and Barry Bonds are two of the most hated players in sports....yet there's no one more exciting to watch when they're at their best.

QUOTE(Felix @ May 29, 2007 -> 04:59 AM) From 2004 to 2007, we've been 19-14 at the Metrodome, including tonights loss and the series win we had there earlier this year. I guess I'm sort of confused as to how this means we're "so bad in Minny." Yeah, I don't know where this outcry against the Twinkie Dome is coming from. Some people would rather blame it on the park instead of the fact our pitchers are struggling to retire hitters, especially with 2 outs lately.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ May 29, 2007 -> 05:18 AM) People are vastly under-estimating the Sox farm system. It lacks the high level prospect but its got an assload of good to mid-level prospects and has a few guys down in the lower levels with the potential to develop into top 50 prospects (in all of baseball). It happens though because there was a point where the Sox system was vastly over-rated and now its shifted the opposite way. The one problem is a serious lack of any sort of middle infield and catching prospects. We are decent in the outfield and solid at 3rd/1st but that is about it. We also have a supreme lack of those high ceiling guys (but like I said there are finally a couple of them starting to sprout up but it is still far too early to see whether they truly turn into high ceiling guys and than at that point we'll have to wonder if they reach there ceiling). From everything I've been hearing, the biggest concern is that the farm system lacks guys who can come up and start either position wise or in the rotation. We have way too many AAAA guys. With the low ceiling players we've been grooming lately, that's going to get you a team with a lot of reserve infielders and back-up outfielders.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ May 29, 2007 -> 02:44 AM) I thought this thread would be Fathom sharing some inside dirt with us. Nope, the only thing I've heard in the last two weeks is how bad the talent level is in the Sox organization.

Freddy's been pitching much better, and he did well tonight. He was never going to be the ace for a team that traded for him....but he sure had some value left.

I think it's great that Fields is getting some time at SS.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ May 29, 2007 -> 02:27 AM) I don't like AJ at all, but I have a hard time seeing why this should be a big deal. I'm sure a bunch of Twins board are calling for AJ's head because he ALMOST stepped on Morneau's foot TWICE! Whatever. It is unfortunate, because now with Footgate the Twins will roll to their ordained sweep of the Sox. And Ozzie will inevitably play it the wrong way -- he'll either watch AJ get beaned and approvigly nod his head and tell the reporters he wishes the Sox played that way or he'll retaliate at the wrong time and hit Punto to put the winning run on base for Morneau & Hunter. Funny you say that....after the game, Ozzie said that he'd have no problem if AJP and Morneau fought or if the Twins threw at AJP. I'd like to think that AJ didn't do anything intentional. However, we should know him well enough that this is the type of little thing he'll try to do in order to get under someone's skin.

- I'd like to give kudos to Mackowiak for playing through pain right now. It's obvious that he's in pain with almost every baseball move he has to make. However, he's out there busting his ass more than anyone. - For all the talk of how good Uribe has looked this year, he's having a worse year statistically than last year. His average is almost below .200 now. It's really looking like we need a new 2b/SS combo next year. - What is up with the velocity drop for Santana and Carlos Zambrano this season? Are they trying to addition for a spot with the White Sox in future seasons?

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ May 29, 2007 -> 01:06 AM) Flame away if you must, deny it if you will but this is a fact: The Sox played the Twins much better when Carl Everett was here. Attitude is a big part of the game of baseball. I wish the Sox had Torii Hunter... I'm sure AJ did that on purpose (ran to the inside of first base, close to Morneau's foot) but I'm equally sure he made certain that he did not step on Morneau's foot in the process. A.J. likes to play head games but he is not a dirty player and never takes cheap shots at, nor sucker punches players. He just plays hard and clean. It's the same thing every year for the Sox. We play them ok during the first half of the year, and then they dominate us towards the end of the year. Whatever AJ did wasn't too smart, as it seemed to pump up the Twins.

I'm sure he'll be up to the big league team in no time. Ozzie will see T. Perez, and he'll be so happy.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ May 28, 2007 -> 09:19 PM) Why the hell would WGN show a Hunter highlight video, What the f***! Maybe it means we'll sign him this offseason

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ May 28, 2007 -> 09:17 PM) Even if someone were to suggest Day isn't ready, which he isn't, atleast there should be evidence of his DEVASTATING 48SO in 28innings stuff. I didn't see anything overwhelming. Gonzalez damn well better produce immediately in the majors. He's probably the front runner to replace Buehrle for next season. I don't think people understand how bad the hitting in AA and AAA is this season. The people at BA constantly talk about how it's the weakest they've seen in a decade at least.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ May 28, 2007 -> 09:14 PM) Thats funny, because I don't understand why Hall is on this team if AJ is going to play vs tough LHP. Terrero looked pretty good. Again, more great managerial moves by the Oz. AJ is acting like a tool about this entire Toby Hall issue. The stupid thing is Hall will face a righty on Wednesday now. Good thing we got Hall to help against tough lefties.

It's official for me.....the only two guys I would hate to see traded from this organization are the nks boys, Danks and Jenks.

On the bright side, at least we had about 5 minutes where we had hope we might win. That was more than I was expecting today. I hope everyone enjoys the rest of their holiday today!

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ May 28, 2007 -> 09:10 PM) Is Montero available? Andy has no business being in the major leagues either, The talent level on this team is nothing special. We have 3rd place talent level in the division, but when you add in the Twins execution and superior manager, we have all the makings of a 4th place team.

1-10 on the day for Sox lefty hitters. Good thing AJ told Ozzie he's going to play today.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ May 28, 2007 -> 09:08 PM) No more ineffective prospects. Please. I sure didn't see the 70 rated slider last inning, either. Did one Twin swing and miss? Our minor league system sucks. Not only is the talent minimal, but we don't prepare these guys to be major league ready. Basically every prospect we call up is going to be an ineffective prospect. At least we know that Gio can dominate one team in AA though. We should trade him now while his value is high.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ May 28, 2007 -> 09:06 PM) Don't get too shaken Day, you shouldn't be here right now. Yep....I feel bad for Day. Was that his MLB debut? If so, I'm thrilled for him to make it.