southsideirish71

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) K, that's a bullpen arm and a 200 inning starter for 2009 gone for a 2Bman whose entire offensive game depends upon his average. If he hits .270, he's a bad player. That's a really dumb trade. Or how about the lessons we learned from this offseason. Even if both of those guys are not on the team in 09, if they have a good season in the minors come up for a cup of coffee and look good, maybe they can be used as trading chits for a major league ready player. Our minor leagues have 2 purposes, one is to inject the team with low cost talent that can help augment the higher priced talent. Secondly, some players can be used to obtain another player from another system. We should be doing everything in our power to stockpile good minor leaguers. Our minor league development needs to prepare them for the majors or at least make some of them appealing for other teams.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:07 AM) That islamo-pig ain't getting my IP address. Use Tor and let someone else's IP show up.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 10:13 AM) Damn, I forgot that questioning the great Richar is a nono on this board. OK, think of it this way. Figgins, Rowand, Richar. Figgins can play anywhere. Richar can still get his at bats while Figgins hits in LF for the start of the year while Quentin works his way back to health, then if Richar's a bust, you have another 2B option. If he's not a bust, you have great flexibility within the lineup. It has nothing to do with the great Richar. Richar could be a serviceable 2nd baseman for low cost. I think a 90 loss team that has an aging core with a 100 million dollar payroll might want to inject some youth into the lineup. We will most likely pick up Rowand. So our low cost options are 3rd, 2nd and LF to give the lineup some financial restraint. Richar could be good and at the same time he could suck big time and be a bust. I would like to see what happens though. Its not like the team is just on the verge of fighting for a world series playoff run. We can see what he can offer, and if he offers nothing jettison him to the 5th level of hell for all I care. I like Figgins, I just think that there is little chance he gets moved from the Angels.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 09:48 AM) I've been out for awhile, and just wanted to add my $.02 to just about everything. Huge trade for Detroit. Landing Miguel Cabrera will be great for their franchise... but at what cost? Andrew Miller will be the better pitcher than D-Train as early as 2009, and they gave up Maybin to boot (not to mention 4 other prospects of varying significance.) Sure, having Cabrera is great, but if he doens't re-sign with the Tigers they are in big trouble, though having Porcello in their system helps. This is a deal that could work out for them, but their offense was already sick so as far as it really making them that much better, I am unsure... it does give them a young monster in an aging lineup, so like I said, if they re-sign Cabrera, it works out... but if not... D-Train will get destroyed in the AL Central. So, everyone was pretty happy with the direction Kenny was going after getting Carlos Quentin, then Detroit makes a move and the world ends. I'm sorry, were we heading to a World Series before Detroit landed Cabrera? The reaction on this board was a joke... I say at least KW tried, he put everything the Sox could offer out there, and was just beaten by a better offer. So this makes him realize that his players aren't as great and perhaps more emphasis goes toward scouting in the future. What I hope happens from here on out in this 07-08 offseason. 1) KW pulls off a Joe Crede for Chone Figgins swap without adding much more than an Andy Sisco type heading back to Anaheim. Say what you will, Figgins would be a perfect fit in this lineup. 2) We ignore Kosuke Fukudome. Come on, $10+ mill for a guy who's never taken an ML at bat? Sorry, no thanks. 3) We sign Aaron Rowand. This allows Figgins to play 2B, and also gets away from Danny Richar being the permanent 2B. That has bad news written all over it. I never thought I'd be rooting for a Rowand signing, but at this point it looks like the White Sox have the power, with the Rangers even shoring up CF. Rowand's cost will come down, and the Sox will get him for something like 3-years, $12.5 million per. I can live with that. Those three things would make me feel better about watching the 2008 season. But I'll be there regardless. Do you really think we just burned one of our best position prospects only to give up on a guy after 2 months. Why does Danny have bad news written all over him. How many players would of been dumped over that model before they had a chance. We are not competing this year, so lets see what the kid can do before we start replacing people.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 11, 2007 -> 08:40 AM) I'd be more worried if Jose completely changed how he threw ala Freddy Garcia. When Jose threw at the end of 2007, it was w/ the same zip he had when he was one of the best SP's in the bigs. If the sox are in playoff contention, IMO, Jose will be pitching better than a #3. The count is a real simple formula. You can pretty much tell what kind of outing he will have based on his arm slot versus righties. If he is mainly arm slot high, dropping down on 2 strikes to put the hitter away he will be good; if he is mainly side arm to righties, he will get rocked. Hopefully the Count is energized and is working out his lower half and his back. I still believe that there was a back issue last year, there is no reason for a pitcher to completely change his mechanics this far into ones career unless you are compensating for an injury. Dropping down is a classic back or leg stress reliever. I would rather see him up top more so he can get more of a downward action on his splitter and keep his fastball within the zone. If he does that, he should be a pretty good pitcher.

I would rather see what we have with Danks and Floyd and Gio before we bring in old and expensive items from the outside.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) I'm surprised you're a Fields guy, considering 95% of the time he's trying to hit it on to the LF concourse. He has a hard swing. But unlike the typical lift and pull hitter he hits the breaking pitch better than the traditional fastball. Low and Away is not his weakness like the typical lift and pull guy, its up and in. From the progression of a hitter, I would like to see him eliminate the high and inside fastball which he had a hard time with last year. I would also like to see him cut down his swing a bit on 2 strikes to lower the strikeout numbers. He is also a kid. Lets see what happens over the course of a full year.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 07:18 PM) Since we are talking pitchers here...any chance the Sox will look at Masset as a possible starter? Or will he be back in the pen...I believe he is out of options right? I still think there is something there as a starter. He has pitched pretty well as a starter, horrible as a reliever. I would like to see him in the mix, but of course because he struggled as a rookie he needs to be drawn and quartered.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) They're in the same basic situation in the same way that they're two pitchers. The key differences between them are that Brandon McCarthy had pitched some FANTASTIC innings for the White Sox and not only pitched fantastic innings but was during a World Series hunt and excepting the fact that McCarthy was always very good in the minors, too, so he had sustained some good success while Floyd hadn't. Well according to your September theory, only his effort against the bad Texas rangers should count because that was in the month of August. He beat Minny twice who wasnt in contention at that point so throw that out. Detroit was bad and he pitched in detroit, so eliminate that one. Cherry picking stats and when they happened is fun.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 04:08 PM) 1. Charlotte, and the IL, are lousy; plus he's old, in experience and age, for that league. Heath Phillips whooped that league in 06. 2. I disagree that he looked nasty and impressive in his last six starts, but everybody here goes after me and DA when we pointed out that a) September starts are generally meaningless B) He really didn't look all that hot watching those games, even if you're not counting "September stats for a loser" 3. I concede, however, that there is "hope" for Floyd to have a good year next year. There is always hope... 1.) Charlotte is a bandbox. 2.) Poop colored glasses a.) Because the Tigers and the Indians took the month off because everything was already decided. b.) You hate him, so again see #2 3.)

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 02:31 PM) Unlike some people on this board...who flame on people who just are trying to start a conversation, I think that it's not something the Sox should do. Maybin isn't worth giving up Fields. But...as one who threw an idea out there and got stomped on, thanks for throwing the idea out there. The spite wasn't targetted at him specifically. I was a dick about it. Sorry. But there are 20 threads on here saying the same damn thing over and over. People want to keep Crede, sign him to a long term contract. Get rid of every single young player, and replace them all with superstars or prospects who are ranked in the top ten. If we can forget that some of these players want to go to FA hence why they signed a guy like Boras as their agent, that other teams may be a tad reluctant to give us their best young prospects for whatever grouping of our prospects, or that we dont have a lot of financial flexibility due to some previous deals we have made.

QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 02:08 PM) I guess I was confused on what side they thought it was unfair for... Regardless, I think it is tougher to find a young star in CF compared to 3B, hence why I would think about doing such a deal. Also, in the short term I would rather have Crede at 3B (even if only for 1 year) than Owens in CF... IMO Maybin, Crede > Fields, Owens Rip me all you want, but I think this is creative and would look very good for the Sox down the line... So lets trade a 3rd baseman who is young cheap and has potential, so we can lose our 3rd baseman the Boras client to FA and have Andy Gonzales as our 3rd baseman next year. Cool. Where do I sign up.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 11:22 AM) If Crede is still around, he will start. Only to showcase him to prove he is healthy to bring more in a trade. So Fields get shipped back to AAA. Thats great.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 02:08 PM) I don't mind Kenny speaking up. It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is he gave up Garland. Big inning eater, prettty good pitcher for an old ss. Dumb. I would of liked to have seen some younger prospects brought over for Garland, but you can't knock the move. I forget, you are Mr. Go for it all the time. You would burn him this season in the miniscule chance for 75 wins over 72 because draft picks mean nothing. Getting something for Jon better than nothing.

QUOTE(NCsoxfan @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 02:03 PM) You guys seem to be putting a halo on Maybin. Obviously, he could be a star or be a bust. Moreover, to say that Fields could become an All-Star in a few years would not be a stretch. I am confused. You are trading Fields probably our best position prospect for a CF, and we are putting a halo on Maybin.

Ah more of the "we need to trade Fields because I have a Crede Jersey" club. So we trade Fields for one of the best outfield prospects in baseball, sure that makes sense. The Marlins are all over that. So I have a question on resigning Crede, who is going to represent you in the kidnapping case. Because the only way we resign crede to a long term deal is if Boras is "missing" for a while.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 11:38 AM) I didn't say he would; I said it's more likely than not that pitchers would have more success in Chicago in the cold but I add the caveat that if Gavin's curveball sucks and has no control, as it frequently does, and he's still losing 5 MPH whenever he goes into the stretch it won't matter if he's playing against polar bears on melting ice caps. Actually Gavin's curve is good, has good tilt to it, and has a sharp break. Gavins problem is throwing it for strikes, and getting ahead of the hitter. If he can throw strikes, and get his curve over he will pitch fine. Danks needs to hang with Mark this ST and work on that cutter. The cutter can help him out a lot. He needs to throw strikes, and use his changeup more. He has a good curve, but his curve and his fastball are both hard hard. He needs to use his change more to offset his fastball. The minute he learns to command a cutter he will dominate. But if he cant throw strikes, he will get rocked. His fastball is good, but not good enough to blow hitters away.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) Most techies I know don't even bother going into stores anymore. Everything is ordered online. And CompUSA wasn't going to be competitive with the PC and hardware companies, or the amazon's and buy.com's of the world. What few people buy this stuff in stores now go to Best Buy, or Abt or the like - glitzy electronics stores with wonderful toys. This was inevitable. I do probably 90% of my shopping online. However for the in store shopping experience, there is no beating a Fry's. Its pretty much the definition of a perfect tech store. Its a geeks utopia of shopping. However their sales people are more inept than your average Best Buy. The Best Buy geek squad guy will pimp his stuff and his service, but will stop the minute he realizes that you dont need his help. The Fry's sales guy attempts to convince you that he is on the same level, and he is running said piece of equipment in his house.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 11:17 AM) If you catch my reference, I'm trying to allude to the fact that if he did that, his career would suddenly bear a striking resemblance to another player that was once described repeatedly on this site as a "4th OF" and who, when we was traded, made us all happy that we were losing his $5 million a year salary because few felt he deserved that at the time...who suddenly put up 1 year of a nearly .900 OPS in a contract year, after several years of mediocrity, and who now it seems 3/4 of this page wants to give 4/$55 or whatever the current offer is to bring him back. Running a bit slow today. Trust me, I dont wand Rowand either. I want Fukudome.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 11:08 AM) But then, somehow, Uribe will actually come out and put up a .900 OPS next year, and suddenly everyone in MLB and especially every Sox Fan will forget about all of the years of mediocrity beforehand and will come out and say that we need to offer him 4/$55 right away because that's a fair value for his level of player. That would be pretty impressive considering his career OPS is .722 and his career high over a full season was .833 with him slugging over 500. His OBP will be the killer for Snacks and Cakes.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 10:48 AM) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home I remember in the early 1990s hanging out there looking at all the cool tech. The minute they built a Fry's in Downers Grove I forgot that Comp USA even existed. Hell Microcenter > Comp USA. Speaking of computer stores shut down, who here remembers ElekTek. Now that shutting down made me sad.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 10:08 PM) You don't say, "We are desperate to get rid of Uribe. We'll take any offer for him." You say, "Uribe's going to play." If 2nd helpings is still on this team, he will be the starting 2nd baseman. There will be a "competition" that will wind up with Uribe winning it. Hawk will talk about how Uribe can carry a team, and how Uribe and Cabrera would be the bestest infield in the history of baseball. Ozzie will talk about a "new and refocused" Profundo who will once again swing at balls that bounce it. If he is on the team come ST, he will start. I would be completely shocked if Richar starts if Uribe is still here. On the same thought, if Crede is here Ozzie will park Fields on the bench or they will send him down to get him solid ABs. We will go for it, only to fail and cost our kids an opportunity to get better. Its a vicious circle of craptitude.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 09:26 PM) I'm not going to comment on his defense, hitting style, or anything like that, because I've never seen Fukudome play...BUT, here's where he outpaces Rowand. BB/SO ratio. KF strikes out a lot, but he also walks a lot. Rowand...strikes out a lot, and doesn't walk a lot. And the Sox need players that can get on base. I think what it might come down to, if the Sox go the free agent route is, do you sign with the devil you know or the devil you don't know. How about signing the devil that doesnt give up more draft picks. We have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball. The only thing that will fix that is smart drafting. The more picks we give up in the early rounds, the less likely we are to get more impact guys in our system. We need a 3 to 4 year plan of drafting well and if we have a guy move for nothing, hopefully we can get a comp pick of it. This is how good teams have been able to draft and stack their systems as well as some of the bad teams. Bad teams can get the impact 1st rounder, good teams either go over slot or they stack picks and make good decisions on tools. Rowand is not a f***ing type A free agent guy. He is a guy who is more likely to hit 270 than over 300. Giving up lots of money for him, and draft picks is just dumb. This team is not competing next year. Acting like we can, or making foolish comments about top teams getting in line with competing with us is dumb. Kenny can act like 2007 didnt happen or the perfect storm was hovering over 35th street. Its simple, every part of the sox collapsed in 07.

I dont believe he would waive his NTC to come to the 90 loss team.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 12:53 PM) I'm not sure I'd go that far. As I've said before, I think Owens would likely have a very Pierre-like career if given the chance to start, and I think that's good enough to leadoff for some teams. Obviously a little power would be preferable. A leadoff hitter's job is to get on base. I could care less about the power numbers. Just get on base. That involves working the count, taking walks, and hitting to get on base. Pierre requires a single to get on base, because he doesnt walk. I would rather have Owens than super expensive and not so good Pierre.