CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 27, 2013 -> 07:58 PM) A C+ prospect for him. If you said Snodgress, I wouldn't bat an eye - you trade for Wieters. Hell, I'd probably give up Sanchez for him. He has a boatload of talent and was actually very good offensively in the minors. But consider this from Baltimore's perspective: they need to cut costs, they've been generally unhappy with Wieters' development as a hitter, and he's about to get expensive. They don't have a ton of leverage in negotiations. If they can potentially get a piece to play and start in 2015, they have to consider it if they're truly looking to cut costs and are shopping Wieters. Which means you really don't want him . There might be 25 teams willing to offer more and certainly more at the trading deadlines for the next 2 years among those in contention.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Nov 27, 2013 -> 07:09 PM) Poop Publications Someone understands.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 27, 2013 -> 10:18 PM) Uh what? I don't see the sox having much communication with them at the moment. I could be wrong but they were not a team that popped out. I don't think catcher upgrade is a huge priority right now. Clearly I should have used teal since the guy asked for any rumor I made one up.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Nov 27, 2013 -> 04:12 PM) Seriously...I'll take any rumor at this point. Sox making serious inquiries about Saltalamachia.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Nov 27, 2013 -> 05:40 PM) If you were Rick Hahn, and you had two options for a catcher in front of you, which would you take and why: Option A: Jarrod Saltalamacchia at a cost of 4 yrs / $36M Option B: Matt Wieters at a cost of Erik Johnson, Tyler Flowers, and Carlos Sanchez Something about Salty crushing mammoth HR's against all the RH pitching in our division appeals to me.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 25, 2013 -> 01:43 PM) How about we keep in mind that there are teams playing the FA market and as teams sign their FA's they will have a better idea who they will consider making available via trades. I'd be willing to bet this is one reason Hahn hasn't been able to deliver any presents to the kids yet. Good grief are people impatient! And sometimes, like Mozeliak did , traded Freese at approximatelyt the same time or once he knew Peralta was wrapped up ,but not announced as such ,so as to not weaken the value of Freese by having a glut of infielders.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Nov 25, 2013 -> 08:59 AM) I know. Panic mode because things are getting done by others. I think free agency fundamentally changed player movement. Gone are the days when Bill Veeck sat in the lobby at the winter meetings with a sign "Open for Business." Teams can pay for a player they need instead of trading their good players and prospects away for someone. I think often they go that route first. Plus they can get a proven impact player. We have needs at possibly 3B, Catcher and maybe CF and relief pitching. I haven't seen the deals yet that had players involved that were a good fit for the Sox. Winter meetings will be interesting. I think you're reading too much into the original post. Clearly I was guaging how others feel so far. I'm fully aware the Sox made a huge splash with Abreu and there's quite a bit of speculation on what the payroll will end up being or if the Sox really plan on being competitive or if it's just the right thing to say to the fans. I gave the option of saying Hahn is falling behind with the signing of a few catchers and Santiago-like pitchers and the Cards trade for Bourjos who is a type of CF the Sox could ve had interest in or if those types of signings are establishing value for Sox players. If Hahn truly plans on having the Sox be competive in 2014 he's got quite a bit of wheeling and dealing to do trading bad offensive and defensive players for better players is no small task. Limiting payroll to $80-85 and comtemplating letting PK come back if he wants doesn't exactly scream " I want to make valuable use of every roster spot and upgrade the hitting and defense."

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 24, 2013 -> 04:10 PM) Dude, it's not even December yet... I'm just trying to stimulate discussion and a lot of signings and trades are already happening . As was the case at the trade deadline Hahn waits everything out for the best deal but that can backfire. I know we signed Abreu and that's great . I just hate coming here and seeing nothing new so I thought I'd get opinions on how people are reacting , if it helps us, hurts us or has no effect on us. I'm find with being patient and seeing what's in store. So far the answers are good except for SS2K5's

The St. Louis Cardinals GM, John Mozeliak hasn't waited long to try to make upgrades to try and steer the Cardinals to long term success. I realize the Card's situation is vastly different than the Sox. Do you think Hahn and the Sox had talks about Alexei ? Was the asking price too high ? Did Mozeliak think Peralta was a better option for 4/$52M than Alexei was for 2/$20 M and giving up a prospect ? The Cards also traded for Bourjos, one of my offseason targets . So both moves eliminated Alexei going to the Cards and the possibilty ,however remote, of Bourjos coming here since we have no idea if Hahn had Bourjos on his "big board". Does the signing of Peralta and Jason Vargas make guys like Santiago and Alexei more valuable ? Does anyone think Hahn is too busy asking for the moon and letting other teams worsen his position by acting now on their needs ? I know it's very early in the offseason but a lot is going on so I'd like to know what everyone is thinking.

QUOTE (mike65 @ Nov 24, 2013 -> 02:15 PM) Hey guys, I was hoping for Ramirez to the Cardinals but that is not happening. I came here in July with a hope for Ramirez and, again, this off-season. I will leave zero for two. I was listening today to XM and they had Josh Byrnes on. I don't know if he slipped but he mentioned that his office was having email problems and he hadn't been able to reach Rick Hahn. He is headed to Chicago for Thanksgiving and said he planned to just walk into his office so they could finish their business. Take it for what it is worth as a parting gift. I sure have enjoyed this board and thanks for making me feel welcome. I hope 2014 is better for the White Sox. I went to Gatewayredbirds.com and most seem happy about the signing and really don't care if Peralta is coming off a steroids suspension that might affect his numbers and that his range is pretty limited in the field . Most also seem happy the Cards didn't give up any minor leaguers .Hahn may 've shot himself in the foot asking for too much if there were any talks at all. I didn't see anyone mention Alexei Ramirez just Tulo, Aybar, Drew, Andrus so maybe you were in a minority about Alexei. Alexei at $20M for 2 years seems a lot better than Peralta at 4/$52 . Mozeliak must really value his prospects or is saving them up for a bigger deal. Alexei's a year older than Peralta, had more errors but still graded out as a better fielder due to his range being much better. His offense is not a liability as he hits a decent amount of doubles and hit well with men on base and also stole 30 bases despite being 32. He justs seems to be more of a Cardinals typer player. Good luck .

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Nov 24, 2013 -> 07:47 AM) I read somewhere they wanted him to play LF! Hard to beleive the Cards would prefer a deal with Peralta over Alexei for less money and less time. Peralta has no range . Alexei's errors made him look bad but he gets to a lot more balls than Peralta. Card must want to horde their prospects or Hahns asking price was way too high and St. Louis said FU to him. Alexei's probably worth more to us than to the Cards but seeing how much they're going to pay for Peralta thats hard to fathom.

QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 23, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 2m Free agent Jhonny Peralta closing in on a deal with #STLcards, source confirms. https://twitter.com/jcrasnick So much for Alexei to the Cards.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Nov 22, 2013 -> 11:53 AM) Woooooo!! No David Freese for us!! Yea but no Bourjos either . I wanted him bad .

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 05:51 PM) There were many reports of voters turned off about it. Frank's biggest obstacle is not his numbers vs. PED guys, he is seen as clean. His biggest problem in whether or not he will be a first ballot guy is how much he DH'd. He doesn't have to campaign to get in. It will happen really soon. It's the internet with many search engines. If there are so many ,surely would be easy to find one.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 05:20 PM) I definitely remember hearing some voters complain about Santo and his begging. Please site the reference otherwise ,heresay.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 04:49 PM) Campaigning turns off voters. Everyone is fully aware of the Frank Thomas story. D0 you have anything but your opinion where someone would've voted for Santo had he not campaigned ? Maybe campaigning made other voters look harder at his production and got him votes too. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and as time goes byI don't think it hurts Frank at all to remind those voting that the game was a cesspool of cheating and hurt those not cheating tremendously.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 04:13 PM) He campaigned for the HOF. I realise that but you can't compare Santo's campaigning with Frank campaigning when Santo played in an era where the playing field was level and Frank played in an era where the cheaters got all the glory. Santo's numbers were fringe HOF worthy while Frank's numbers could look so much better had others not done steroids. Frank can only rely on his hitting stats since he wasn't a good fielder and played DH a lot. Santo made 9 All-Star teams on a level playing field . Thomas only had 5 competing against roiders. Giambi 5 All Star games from 2000-2004 . Mark McGwire 5 AS games for the AL from 1991-1997. Rafael Palmeiro 3 AS games between 1991-1999. Frank campaigns because he never got the credit he deserved because he played honest and others didn't . Guys like Bonds and Sosa and McGwire all were greatly admired during the HR Derby's that was baseball when Frank played. If you are meek in today's day and age your accomplihments get ignored. All Frank is doing is putting his numbers in the proper context.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) Frank doesn't need to campaign like Ron Santo. What does Santo have to do with anything, he played in an era when the playing field was equal .

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) And now you are a person from St. Louis overrating Conor Gillaspie. Don't think he overrated him just saying Conor has some upside value and he's a better fit at 3rd base than Freese being younger and LH and thats hard to argue . When saying Conor is better than Freese I'm pretty sure that was the gist of his argument rather than career numbers since Conor hasn't had much a career yet.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:36 PM) Frank is on CSN at 5:30. Kinda wish he would let his numbers do the talking over the next couple months before the vote. All things being equal maybe he would, but he is a proud guy. Proud of what he accomplished and proud he didn't take roids. Baseball was so rampart with roids that I think he does need to constantly remind people of all the guys who set records and won MVPs juiced. Take steroids out of the game and maybe you get the power numbers getting produce today in which case Frank's numbers look even more monstrous. The guy was robbed of MVP's ,All star appearances maybe even a championship when you look at roiders team success also. Letting his numbers do the talking would look so much better if everyone else didn't cheat.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) 4 years?! Are they nuts? He's isn't even that good of a pitcher. I can't imagine what Garza and Santana must be thinking. If the demand for mediocre pitchers is that high the Sox should make off with a nice hall if the trade one of Santiago/Q. That's why Hahn is being patient. He's going to see a lot of high contracts signed by a lot of mediocre players and when GM's come calling looking for a Sox pitcher he can compare them to guys who just signed big deals like Vargas to accentuate the point that our guy(s) are worth substantially more then what's being offered.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 05:33 PM) It doesn't really matter. As soon as Miggy starts to decline, they're done. Except he's a free agent in 2016 unless they use the money saved to extent him.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 07:15 PM) Interested to see how Rick responds to this trade I don't think anything Hahn does will be as a response to this trade. He will do what he does based solely on the Sox needs.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 07:51 PM) I think in this runs environment, the price of middle of the field, young impact players is eclipsing young pitching by a fairly reasonable margin. Not sure how many GM's feel this way, but I certainly would. If I had a potential impact catcher, SS, or cf, it would take a very talented young pitcher to bring him back. Maybe Mozeliak feels that way since the Cards seem to be stockpiling SS's which means they don't think Kozma or even their AAA SS Greg Garcia is the "young controllable SS" they desire but they did just add him to the 40 man roster to protect him from the Rule V draft. I think Alexei would thrive in the NL and if i were in Hahn's shoes I would ask for Garcia and Piscotty and let Mozeliak weigh how important Alexei might be to winning the championship that eluded them last year but I still don't think the Cards are willing to trade unless they give up pitching .

QUOTE (mike65 @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 07:05 PM) Since I have been a proponent of Ramirez to the Cardinals since July, I hope you are right. I think the Cardinals options on the trade market are the White Sox and the Angels (maybe San Diego or Cleveland but doubtful), Drew or Peralta in FA, or the Cuban defector with the incredibly long last name. Since Hahn and Mozeliak spoke about Ramirez this summer, it shouldn't take long to strike a deal, right? Alexei might be the 1st Sox player traded since he's over 30 , still has value but also has a $10M contract for the next 2 years. I think the Cards would get good value for those 2 years but the Sox might have a hard time finding a replacement unless the Cards offer us a SS back . However Hahn is looking for near ML ready players , guys who might be able to step right into the starting lineup and Jim Bowden said this "Mozeliak made it clear to us this morning that he'd like to trade a young "starting pitcher": for a "young controllable shortstop" . They might not be a match . Alexei isnt young but he is controllable for 2 yrs plus an option year so it's not like he would cripple the Cards with a bad contract. The Sox strength is young starters but we're likely to move move one of them . It's like a longshot they end up trade partners because both GM's are stubborn about getting guys they want. But you have all those SS's in your sytem and having Alexei for 2 or 3 years would certainly give them a chance to develop .