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And Rodon fizzled after mid july so if Kopech wants to do it the Sox have to do a better job, a much better job than they did with Rodon. You do want him available for the playoffs at his best don't you ? 36 of Rodon's total innings came after mid July so if u want Kopech to pitch a full season and the playoff maybe he's restricted to only 75 innings during the season. If you push him up to 100 IP by the All Star break you're risking his arm for the playoffs. If you are counting on his youth to give him more thats just a mistake. You have to allow for the fact that despite his youth it still may be to much for him.

Look you have a CPT telling you the same thing I'm telling you. It's your choice to believe us or not. You arm has to be conditioned to throw a lot of innings and you have to be better than you were in the minors. Talent alone will not get you past MLB hitters. Experience dealing with the length and stress of an MLB season means something.

Wainwright still had years of experience dealing with MLB hitters under his belt as a SP while Kopech has 0.

I'm dragging it out because and frankly it takes 2 to drag it out, because if you literally would've taken anyone else except Rodon of course since he didn't pitch 150 innings, the Sox also failed to do that and Rodon has the possibility to be better than all those guys. I'll take the possibility he could be an ace and pitch like an ace in the playoffs over some innings eater 3-5 guy just to rest Gio, Lynn and Cease move. The BP plan the Sox put together is already disintegrating so as of now looks like it's Crick, Burr, Ruiz, Sousa, Banks Cueto , Lopez and Keuchel to the rescue while any plans for the rotation all went belly up. That's only half the pitchers the Sox are using in April !

But you still haven't told me who they should've signed or traded for . I just provided you with a list of names. It's easy to disagree with my choice but given what the Sox have/haven't done . I'm not real sure why your discussing it with me other than to disagree about Rodon while also agreeing the Sox screwed up addressing the SP. I've at least been consistent that SP was a need and I tackled it with my suggestion that frankly seems to be one of the best options among the pitchers that have been traded or signed when you take into consideration the upside and why the Sox didnt trade for a pitcher.

It's still an injury and who knows, its the same thing he had at the end of last year and it may linger all season.

I would assume Bassitt and Sonny Gray neither of whom they traded for. I can't remember who else fits that description. Pineda fell short in IP (109) but the Tigers signed him $5.5 + incentives. Royals signed Greinke for $13M that fits your description and is 38. Royals traded Mike Minor to the Reds He pitched 150 IP with a 5 ERA and is 34. Blue Jays signed Kikuchi 3/$36M He had a little over 150 IP, age 30. Dodgers resigned Kershaw 1 yr. $17M, 34 yrs old. Giants Rodon Stroman 2yrs. $50M signed with Cubs Previously discussed Manea, Guasman Sox didn't get any of those guys. Given that list and what they signed for there are a few guys the Sox could've pursued none of whom were really seriously discussed as Sox options by the board. Here and there there they were but always the usual ewww no, just like with Rodon or the Manea, Gray and Bassitt discussions that went like this: The Sox could've matched or exceeded those offers !

Excuse me if I trust the Giants more than the Sox when it comes to handling pitchers. https://aroundthefoghorn.com/2021/07/16/sf-giants-surprises-first-half/ The Giants got started by issuing a one-year, $18.9 million qualifying offer to Kevin Gausman, which he accepted. Then, they dished out a trio of one-year, pillow contracts to Anthony DeSclafani, Alex Wood, and Aaron Sanchez. On top of this, Sammy Long was reeled in on a minor-league pact with an invite to spring training. ?There was plenty of risk with this approach. DeSclafani and Wood battled ineffectiveness as well as injuries in 2020, whereas Sanchez missed the entire year as he recovered from shoulder surgery. This was a strategy that could have fell flat on its face. Some of that risk came to fruition as many Giants starters have spent time on the shelf in 2021, but as a unit, they have been one of the best in baseball. The starting rotation has combined to post the third-best ERA in baseball at 3.18, behind only the New York Mets (2.98 ERA) and the Los Angeles Dodgers (2.94 ERA).

Aren't guys like Stroman who apparently didn't like LaRussa or Gausman who signed for 5yrs /$110M from the 2 names I just saw mentioned by someone else. I need names and numbers just not a dependable vague 3,4,5.

It's still up to the Sox FO to make the ultimate decision. Giants seemed to be able to pull the trigger . Would they not have access to some kind of medical info on him before they signed on the dotted line ? Or is that kind of info limited in it's scope for Free agents but readily available for trades ?

Right, that's where we do agree but the question always has been how do they do that given the no big contracts quandry. Address the SP 1st and then go from there regarding the BP ,RF, and 2nd. I put myself out there to be disagreed with by saying it should have been Rodon and I give everyone a chance who disagrees the chance to say I told you so when he gets injured. But I sure don't see any real good top of rotation suggestions that could 've been signed or traded for without either a big multiyear contract or trading the guys I already mentioned.

That's the other old tired argument, giving the Sox FO the benefit of the doubt on personnel decisions. How did that work out for you with Madrigal and Collins?

We aren't . We are talking about him being the best chance at replacing that production given that the Sox were never going to pay for a top of the rotation SP or apparently trade for one given the lack of minor league quality pitchers and not willing to trade Crochet, Vaughn, Sheets. Burger, Montgomery, Kopech or Vera.

Then you tell me what the Sox should have done to replace Rodon's production and Keuchel's downfall and keep in mind that a big contract was out of the question.

Again disingenuous, you're pretending or implying he should have been a workhorse . The only way he could have been a good starter in the playoffs was if the Sox had managed his innings better after 2 straight years of not pitching. Kopech has some advantage in that he pitched 69 innings last year. His disadvantage is he has the same people handling him as Rodon last year and his total lack of big league starting experience.

I understand your position on Rodon as long as you understand mine. I never expected the Sox to sign anyone for big money this off season. That has proven true. However, I did expect a signing in the near $50M range for a few years and was hoping it would be a starting pitcher. Rodon, now with very productive innings from 2021 under his belt, seemed like as good choice as any to fill his departure by signing him again and doing a better job of limiting his inning than last year. You get a high quality starting pitcher in that price range and only 2 years because of his unreliable injury history. That's the chance you might have to take given that anyone on a lengthy expensive contract was out for RF, SP and 2nd base. The Giants already look like they are treating him better than the Sox did. Last year in ST the Sox gave him 13.2 IP, the Giants so far just 6.2 IP . I would imagine the Giants also pitch him less innings in the 1st half than the Sox did even though with the Sox he was coming off 2 years of barely pitching and with the Giants he now has 132.2 IP under his belt from 2021.

Didn't you ask me this before ? I would've felt better if they had resigned Rodon and Cease continued on his upward path and Kopech was added to the starting rotation depth to replace Keuchel if he faltered again. Kopech as long relief/ occasional starter in a bigger role than last year but a role the Sox could manage his innings more effectively. I'm worried that Kopech will not have enough left in the tank and/or not be effective enough to be counted on in the playoffs. It's not impossible that the Sox do a good job of keeping him fresh and he surpasses my expectations of him in his ability to thrust himself in a top 3 starter for the playoffs. It's a double edge sword that needs both edges to be sharp.

Right I was going to put your caveat of your expectations at the end of my post but didn't. I never had expectations for Vaughn in his 1st year the same as I don't have them for Kopech in his 1st time as a full time starting pitcher. My expectations for Robert and Robert are pretty much the same as last year to fulfill the high side of as yet unfulfilled consistency by staying on the field. I, too, thought he could be a superstar but only after 2019 when he played very well, but in the bold predictions from last year many were saying boldly he would be MVP. After 2020 I didn't share those thoughts. It was a combination of him getting Covid and reports he was just irresponsible with who he was hanging out with that changed my expectations.

AT least for the beginning of the season with both the starting and relief pitching. The injury to Lynn just underscored the fact that the Sox never converted on their stated goals to improve the starting pitcher. The Kopech delay from Covid didn't help either. The injuries to Crochet and Kelly hurt both the high end late innings relief while the Crochet injury and 2 missing pieces impacted the back end long relief guys if Lopez has to start any games.

Madrigal was actually above average despite all the talk about his bad base running and fielding in his rookie year. In his limited time in 2021 he was a positive base runner (UBR 2.0 )and fielder ( OAA 1.0, UZR .6) As a hitter in both 2020 and 2021 his wRC+ were respectively 111 and 113 and the Sox will miss the financial flexibility he provided. It sucked that like many of our young players that he was injured too much. I will also say that Vaughn will be an upgrade. I don't think there's any chance his 2nd year in MLB will be worse than his 1st year. Robert should be a huge upgrade because he haven't even got to see him play yet for any extended period of time. Eloy is capable of doing better than last year since he has proven he can slug .500+ . He also just has to stay on the field more.

Probably not but Rodon's production still needed to be replaced, not just another body thrown at it, if you are genuinely serious about a championship quality rotation. You're not exactly going out on a limb with that prediction.

I am quite literally amazed anyone can say that. Cease is on an upward growth path the many pitchers go through. If he continues on that path he can indeed become Cy Young worthy. This is starting to sound like the expectations placed on Vaughn last year. Different past circumstances surrounding them but still in their very 1st time logging serious time in their positions in MLB.

Is this definition in the dictionary ? Because I don't see it that way, that's how it's debatable. See me at the end of the year when he produces 5 WAR all by himself. Saying Rodon was God awful in the playoffs is disingenuous. We all knew he wasn't the same pitcher in the 2nd half as the 1st half but chances were he wasn't going to be able to pitch in the playoffs anyway because of his lack of innings the previous 2 years. Let's hope the Sox hierarchy is a little more careful with Kopech.

But unlike Rodon, Kopech hasn't already gone through the trials and tribulations that young starting pitchers so often do. He went trough the trials and tribulations in his personal life and health before he became a Starting pitcher in MLB. I'm not sure if you are implying that Rodon had Covid. If you believe that Kopech can be a 5 WAR player this year and are happy about him and Keuchel ,V V, Cueto, Lopez in your stating rotation so be it. My bold prediction is those 5 together cannot equal the 5 WAR that Rodon produced last year.

Cueto is on his last legs and needs a few week to get ready and maybe Keuchel is too. That's the long and short of it Greg.