CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Sorry to all those debating things with me. I have to go see my brother who is in from Chicago and won't be checking on Soxtalk until late in the evening.

I have no idea what you're asking me based on the quote you quoted from me. The thing you quoted was talking about how the Braves "got" lucky. It's funny how the Braves got lucky in your mind but the Sox were stupid to make the trade for Kimbrel but you give no credit for the Braves for being smart.

All three teams among the Astro's, Braves and Cubs did it in different ways. The Sox got it right at the beginning because they got a lot of good young talent. That talent has been inconsistent due to injuries, Covid regression or what have you. They signed free agents Grandal and Hendriks to address needs. Hahns strength has never been trading for pieces for the betterment of the team. I don't know if its their pro scouting or lack of analytics or what. I'm not behind the scenes. I'm just commenting on how things are currently developing based on a series of observations on how the club was run in the past. The Braves either got lucky or were smart in making the trades they did to advance to where they were and put them over the top in a year that wasn't going well. They also had 2 well paid superstars in Freeman and Acuna. The Sox got unlucky or were dumb in 2021 at the TDL and without $100M superstars. The Cubs spent a ton of money on Heyward and Lester. The Sox don't do that. The Astros drafted well and their 2017 middling payroll had great young players who were making nothing and still had a decent farm system ( Correa, Springer, Bregman Altuve) which allowed them to trade for Verlander who put them over the top. The Sox payroll is high , their farm is barren and our position players do not have the defensive capabilities with the combined bats of Bregman. Altuve, Springer and Correa.

I'm at a loss. I wanted them to resign Rodon but a lot of the board didn't. Plus picking up Kimbrel's option didn't help in that regard. Nor the whole Kimbrel trade either for that matter when you add in the cost for Harrison and just saving just $4M on the Pollock trade.

It's not either/or . Do you even read my posts? I gave them credit for getting us to this point.

Well I'm debating it so that makes it debatable. All the moves they made prior to 2021 led them to where they were. Injuries forced their hand and they dealt with it. Was it lucky that all 4 guys they got performed? Sure there was luck involved with that but they identified their needs and the moves paid off. Did that happen for the Sox in 2021 ? Nope . Period . End of story.

That the Sox FO isnt as smart as the Braves, Cubs and Astros, they don't sign big contracts, they don't draft well and they don't care about winning. Each of those clubs made the moves necessary to advance in different ways and I'm not seeing an advancement for this year because they didn't allocate resources well and they have gone backwards since the 2021 TDL . How many times do I have to repeat myself to you ?

Your missing the progress each and every year. Don't say I didn't warn you when the Sox don't make the ALCS this year. They also had 2 Superstars in Acuna and Freeman who both signed contracts @ $100M and higher. Do the Sox have anyone who can be called a superstar or anyone who signed big contracts ? They signed free agent Nov, 2020 Charlie Morton Morton, 37,(at the time) battled some shoulder fatigue and was limited to nine starts and 38 innings in 2020, pitching to a 4.74 ERA in that short time. Hmm shoulder fatigue, kind of sounds like Rodon . Braves made the NLCS that year then they resigned him for 2022. What Starting pitcher did the White Sox sign after losing in the playoffs and losing Rodon with Keuchel and Kopech huge question marks and no minor league depth ? They resigned Lynn before that because Keuchel was looking terrible and Rodon was about to become gassed.

That was always my question since the rebuild started so no I didn't trust them from the start. They didn't address a lot of things that were wrong with the organization until well after the rebuild started. They were always college heavy in the draft, nor did they prioritize middle of the field players. They didn't spend on young guys in the Int'l draft and traded away money. They lagged behind in biomechanics and high tech equipment for development purposes. Then Covid and the looming strike which I was mentioning back in 2020 as obstacles . Then Jerry completely circumvented all attempts to hire a manager by giving the job to TLR. Plus no contracts over $90M yet and the results of the front office since the 2021 trade deadline. I don't care who thinks I'm negative and I won't describe you as carrying water. I just am very good at seeing a complete picture of things that have always stood in the Sox way since the Reindorf reign started. If you want to focus on how wonderful they have done in trading good players for the guys who have got us to this point that's fine by me. I didn't just start saying what I'm saying. I've saying it a long time. I said the Sox wouldn't sign Conforto back in November or December.

Highly debatable . Record wise sure but if you plot their progression from what they did from 2018-2020 their record was a result of an injury to one of the best players in baseball and the 2 time Achilles tears to Soroka in 2020 and again in 2021. They rebuilt their whole outfield smartly and it paid off even better than expected.

I think what you said is setting themselves back a year because I gave examples of how they did what you said.

Pittsburgh will take him if they try to do that or someone else. Maybe giving the Pirates the 1st crack at him is worth Q.

Come on now, credit is deserved for getting the Sox to the point they have but the question has always been will they be smart enough to finish it off. That remains to be seen but it's not exactly trending in the right direction.

I'm focusing on the negative because that's all there has been since the 2021 TDL . Yes Grandal and Hendriks have been good . But imagine if the Sox didn't extend Lynn and it becomes another prospect for a 1 year pitcher. The trade for Pollock was just a way to try to eliminate the disaster the Kimbrel trade created but we lost a cost controlled Madrigal and spent money on Harrison and it pushed the payroll higher replacing the Kimbrel $16M salary with Pollock's $12M and they didn't address the SP depth at all thus creating another disaster waiting to happen. Surprise Lynn hurt, Crochet out for the year . There's a whole lot of negative going on. In 2018 the Braves lost in the playoffs in 4 games in the division series. In 2019 they lost in the division series in 5 games. In 2020 they lost in the Championship series in 7 games. 2021 they won the World Series. That's progress year by year, all set up by a series of moves that allowed them to go a little farther every year.

Quintana only cost the Pirates $2M . He could be likely.

Look I do appreciate your optimism and wish I could share it but since you brought up the Braves here's an article on how drafting and trades led to them being in a position to compete at a high level and that article didn't even include the TDL deals from 2021. It's all about making successful moves in the draft, trades, free agent signings ( some of which would be very costly) and allocating resources properly and continuing moving forward. The Braves, Cubs and Astros did all that. The Sox just set themselves back a year since the 2021 TDL. The bad system, bad trades, allocating resources properly ,not addressing the SP depth or the right handedness of the position players. Throw Covid, the strike and injuries into the mix and it's been pretty bad. If the Sox don't win a World Series the series of moves starting at the 2021 TDL and this off season that was a result of those moves will be pointed out as the main culprit. https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-nlcs-run-product-of-successful-rebuild

I don't care who gives credit for whom. If you trade them away it really doesn't matter. I was never once arguing about credit. What matters is a championship and the moves that led to it. Between the TDL last year and all the moves since then trying to make up for those disastrous moves isn't exactly pushing the needle in the Sox direction for a championship. Throw in the draft picks and lack of spending big money which were key components of the Astros and Cubs Championship, I'm not willing to give the FO credit for anything. How you and Caulfield divvy who gets credit for developing playing is not germane to winning a World Series.

It would be very difficult to give the Sox any credit because they traded him ,which if he becomes an All Star it will mean they traded away an All-Star giving up a cost controlled player for a $16M relief pitcher they then had to trade for a 34 yr old OF for a year or 2. Plus on top of that they kept Kimbrel but no QO to Rodon nor did they pursue Rodon as a FA . They bloated the payroll, had no depth at Starting pitching, had to pay for another old guy to cover 2nd base. Plus they had to replace Madrigal (who was injured) so they traded Hernandez for Pilkington who has made Cleveland's roster to start the season. That's just a really nasty chain of events all linked to the TDL trades, all linked to a higher payroll , older players and no starting pitching depth. Not exactly championship quality moves.

The Astros might be the exception and they had higher picks than the Sox which I already gave the Sox a pass on because they were too good during the rebuild to gte the highest picks. I didn't mention the Cubs but they compensated for having mediocre drafts by spending a boat load of money on Lester and Heyward.And the Astro's and Cubs both won a World Series because of their rebuilds. It's yet to be seen if the Sox will win a World Series but so far they have done neither of the things that propelled those 2 teams to championships. Maybe the Sox are the exception in that they haven't yet done what it may take to win a Championship.

And Soxtalk wasn't exactly enamored with Quintana either. I recall the phrase "smoke and mirrors" being applied to Quintana pretty liberally in his 1st successful stint back in 2012. Maybe the Pirates will part with him

Look at who Houston got with their picks during their rebuild and compare it to the Sox. Maybe it's just that the Sox never quite matched being as bad as Houston during their respective rebuilds or that the drafts didn't have the same type of talent available. Rodon wasn't a rebuild draft pick since the rebuild officially began when Sale was Traded Dec 7th, 2016. Rodon was taken in the 2014 draft. 2016 wasn't exactly a banner year for draft picks but their were a few gems especially in the Compensatory round when the Sox selected Burdi. In the 2nd round the Sox took Alec Hansen and later Pete Alonso, Bryan Reynolds and Bo Bichette were taken. 2017 was Burger and Sheets 2018 was Madrigal with Jonathan India selected on the very next pick. 2019 Vaughn who may become very good. 2020 Crochet and Jared Kelley . Injured or a reliever and a HS pitcher pretty far away from contributing to the big club if he ever does. Not an athletic type among the position players except maybe Madrigal but because of his size not the big strong athletic type.

Also the "at some point " started when the regular season ended despite all the hubbub about RF and 2nd base , starting pitching was always the most serious need along with becoming more left handed.

You are so right ! Pilkington for 1/2 season of Cesar Hernandez and not willing or able to muster up whatever Oakland wanted for Manaea which was some pitching and minor league shortstops that are always in demand. The Sox should have learned that lesson when Tatis was traded. I don't want to root for Pilkington to bomb. I hope he has a great career. Just saying the same guys in charge of rebuilding were the same guys who couldn't get trades for MLB talent right before. Even with the international market they play the older prospects game just like they play the older MLB guys in trades. I really wish I could see more positives but Collins being traded leaves us with Vaughn, Burger among our 1st round high picks and Sheets who was a 2nd rounder . So the draft has yet to play a huge part in the rebuild.

I'm resurrecting this thread because throughout it there is a conception that you will either have to subscribe to Apple TV+ or it will be blacked out if the team in your area is playing. As you can see in the post below that may not be the case. Also Jason on the telecast yesterday said pretty much the same thing so I'll be checking it out this Friday to see if it's true. The thing is I have Apple TV on my Android TV and I had trouble with it until I had a telecon with an Apple rep. I wanted that App because as a movie code buyer and seller I like to have all the apps on my TV where the movies transport too once you use the code. Since Moviesanywhere is the main place to use codes if you link other streaming services to Moviesanywhere like Vudu, Apple, and Google Play it just gives me a wider variety of places to watch movies plus certain codes only redeem on certain services. I suggest if you don't have the Apple TV app yet on your smart TV get it now and if you have an Android TV give it a try for the baseball and if you stream movies and use codes. You may have to work out some bugs with it on an Android TV. Also, if you were thinking of paying for Apple TV+ hold off until we find out this Friday if the games are indeed free through the regular AppleTV app by just clicking on AppleTV+ section listed on the Apple TV app.

Nice write ups on Kopech and Cease thrown in there with Sandy Alcantara, Logan Webb and Trevor Rogers. Alcantara has a great chase rate and is very good at getting GB out because of a power sinker. Webb also has a good sinker . He ditched his 4 seamer for i and he just totallly dominated the Dodgers in the playoffs. Rogers really limits hard contact with a great barrel rate. Cease made a big jump last year but still has some issues but if he can just keep improving he can be an ace. Kopech is probably the darkest of the dark horses because he'll experience growing pains like most young starting pitchers do , especially when you throw in innings limits and an off season with Covid.