CaliSoxFanViaSWside

I don't think they care about a weakened BP when he's going to be a FA. You will trade a reliever always for younger higher upside arms even if Paddack is a TJ waiting to happen they got 5 years for 1 and saved money for this year. Padres going for it all

I would have supported you on your thinking but I knew last night that he was gone per the Merkin tweets as I predicted when we got Pollock and Haseley and already had a 4th outfielder with Engel. Plus Tim's suspension meant Mendick would stick especially with all the playing time he's got in the last few days so he would be ready. It was good to see Adolpho lighting it up but ultimately his injuries and the Pandemic cost him too many AB's. He did all he could last year in AA and AA just like Burger did to overcome his injuries but ultimately when you are out of options one great ST is not enough to save you . It's great for him to get another shot with another team if that's what happens even if it's by releasing him.

Its not so hard to grasp if you look at it dispassionately. I was no fanboy of Sheets but I did sort of like that .900 OPS against RHP . Now I can definitely say that there are fanboys of Vaughn because even though he wasn't even close to being ready last year everyone wanted him to play every day. To hell with winning. I guess most thought the Sox were going to win the division easy with a weak hitting Vaughn (against RHP) in the lineup every day along with the scrubs who were also filling in the lineup on an every day basis. I wasn't 100% sure of that but he got a lot of MLB AB's but not nearly as many as most wanted him to get. There was a lot of consternation whenever he wasn't in the lineup. Then Sheets came along and put up a .900 OPS against RHP while Vaughn reverted to struggling again . Of course the fanboys said Sheets AB's were cherry picked while Vaughn was just tired at the end of the season. Yes Vaughn is the better prospect and will likely have a better career . Yes Sheets had way more MILB AB's than Vaughn so he was more prepared to face MLB pitching. But every excuse in the book was used to downplay Sheets accomplishments and every excuse in the book was given for Vaughns struggles for the whole 1st half and for the end of the season. That still doesn't even count the fact that the Sox actually need LHP power in the lineup . You're not even advocating for an equal amount of AB's against RHP to make it fair.Make it a fair fight . Play them an equal amount and may the best man win . I'm not saying I want Sheets in the lineup against LHP. I want them to get an equal amount of AB's against RHP . If the playoffs roll around and Vaughn is much improved against RHP and has a wRC+ 115 against them but Sheets in equal time puts up 135+ I'll guarantee people would still be clamoring for Vaughn against RHP in the playoffs if the Sox are not able to get them both in the same lineup.

Thanks I just changed it. I meant Robert and Jimenez with the last paragraph being about Moncada.

I dont think they let him ever go 7 innings until the 2nd half. ARe you talking about 7 full innings or 6+ ? If he goes 7 innings in April you better pray the Sox don't treat him like Rodon and burn his arm out by mid July. 10 of Rodons 1st 18 starts were 6 or more innings including his 9 inning no hitter. If you count ST he pitched about 114 inning before July 18th when he started to slow down and go less innings and become less effective. You had better hope they ramp up Kopech slow and never let him go beyond 5 in the 1st half unless his pitch count is super low after 5 innings.

Ok we'll see but if Covid slows him down at all or the late start to spring training it might take him till May to make a start that lasts as long as 5 innings. Maybe that helps him towards the end of the season. He was all over the place in his last ST start and only threw 4 innings in both starts combined so he isn't close to going 5 yet effectively.

He actually hit a brick wall starting at around 100 innings. Compare his starts after mid July to the ones after. He started 18 games before mid july 10 of those 18 he went at least 6 innings 10 times after that not a single start over 5 innings and I haven't even counted the 13.2 innings he did in ST in 2021.

And Rodon fizzled after mid july so if Kopech wants to do it the Sox have to do a better job, a much better job than they did with Rodon. You do want him available for the playoffs at his best don't you ? 36 of Rodon's total innings came after mid July so if u want Kopech to pitch a full season and the playoff maybe he's restricted to only 75 innings during the season. If you push him up to 100 IP by the All Star break you're risking his arm for the playoffs. If you are counting on his youth to give him more thats just a mistake. You have to allow for the fact that despite his youth it still may be to much for him.

Look you have a CPT telling you the same thing I'm telling you. It's your choice to believe us or not. You arm has to be conditioned to throw a lot of innings and you have to be better than you were in the minors. Talent alone will not get you past MLB hitters. Experience dealing with the length and stress of an MLB season means something.

Wainwright still had years of experience dealing with MLB hitters under his belt as a SP while Kopech has 0.

I'm dragging it out because and frankly it takes 2 to drag it out, because if you literally would've taken anyone else except Rodon of course since he didn't pitch 150 innings, the Sox also failed to do that and Rodon has the possibility to be better than all those guys. I'll take the possibility he could be an ace and pitch like an ace in the playoffs over some innings eater 3-5 guy just to rest Gio, Lynn and Cease move. The BP plan the Sox put together is already disintegrating so as of now looks like it's Crick, Burr, Ruiz, Sousa, Banks Cueto , Lopez and Keuchel to the rescue while any plans for the rotation all went belly up. That's only half the pitchers the Sox are using in April !

But you still haven't told me who they should've signed or traded for . I just provided you with a list of names. It's easy to disagree with my choice but given what the Sox have/haven't done . I'm not real sure why your discussing it with me other than to disagree about Rodon while also agreeing the Sox screwed up addressing the SP. I've at least been consistent that SP was a need and I tackled it with my suggestion that frankly seems to be one of the best options among the pitchers that have been traded or signed when you take into consideration the upside and why the Sox didnt trade for a pitcher.

It's still an injury and who knows, its the same thing he had at the end of last year and it may linger all season.

I would assume Bassitt and Sonny Gray neither of whom they traded for. I can't remember who else fits that description. Pineda fell short in IP (109) but the Tigers signed him $5.5 + incentives. Royals signed Greinke for $13M that fits your description and is 38. Royals traded Mike Minor to the Reds He pitched 150 IP with a 5 ERA and is 34. Blue Jays signed Kikuchi 3/$36M He had a little over 150 IP, age 30. Dodgers resigned Kershaw 1 yr. $17M, 34 yrs old. Giants Rodon Stroman 2yrs. $50M signed with Cubs Previously discussed Manea, Guasman Sox didn't get any of those guys. Given that list and what they signed for there are a few guys the Sox could've pursued none of whom were really seriously discussed as Sox options by the board. Here and there there they were but always the usual ewww no, just like with Rodon or the Manea, Gray and Bassitt discussions that went like this: The Sox could've matched or exceeded those offers !

Excuse me if I trust the Giants more than the Sox when it comes to handling pitchers. https://aroundthefoghorn.com/2021/07/16/sf-giants-surprises-first-half/ The Giants got started by issuing a one-year, $18.9 million qualifying offer to Kevin Gausman, which he accepted. Then, they dished out a trio of one-year, pillow contracts to Anthony DeSclafani, Alex Wood, and Aaron Sanchez. On top of this, Sammy Long was reeled in on a minor-league pact with an invite to spring training. ?There was plenty of risk with this approach. DeSclafani and Wood battled ineffectiveness as well as injuries in 2020, whereas Sanchez missed the entire year as he recovered from shoulder surgery. This was a strategy that could have fell flat on its face. Some of that risk came to fruition as many Giants starters have spent time on the shelf in 2021, but as a unit, they have been one of the best in baseball. The starting rotation has combined to post the third-best ERA in baseball at 3.18, behind only the New York Mets (2.98 ERA) and the Los Angeles Dodgers (2.94 ERA).

Aren't guys like Stroman who apparently didn't like LaRussa or Gausman who signed for 5yrs /$110M from the 2 names I just saw mentioned by someone else. I need names and numbers just not a dependable vague 3,4,5.

It's still up to the Sox FO to make the ultimate decision. Giants seemed to be able to pull the trigger . Would they not have access to some kind of medical info on him before they signed on the dotted line ? Or is that kind of info limited in it's scope for Free agents but readily available for trades ?

Right, that's where we do agree but the question always has been how do they do that given the no big contracts quandry. Address the SP 1st and then go from there regarding the BP ,RF, and 2nd. I put myself out there to be disagreed with by saying it should have been Rodon and I give everyone a chance who disagrees the chance to say I told you so when he gets injured. But I sure don't see any real good top of rotation suggestions that could 've been signed or traded for without either a big multiyear contract or trading the guys I already mentioned.

That's the other old tired argument, giving the Sox FO the benefit of the doubt on personnel decisions. How did that work out for you with Madrigal and Collins?

We aren't . We are talking about him being the best chance at replacing that production given that the Sox were never going to pay for a top of the rotation SP or apparently trade for one given the lack of minor league quality pitchers and not willing to trade Crochet, Vaughn, Sheets. Burger, Montgomery, Kopech or Vera.

Then you tell me what the Sox should have done to replace Rodon's production and Keuchel's downfall and keep in mind that a big contract was out of the question.

Again disingenuous, you're pretending or implying he should have been a workhorse . The only way he could have been a good starter in the playoffs was if the Sox had managed his innings better after 2 straight years of not pitching. Kopech has some advantage in that he pitched 69 innings last year. His disadvantage is he has the same people handling him as Rodon last year and his total lack of big league starting experience.

I understand your position on Rodon as long as you understand mine. I never expected the Sox to sign anyone for big money this off season. That has proven true. However, I did expect a signing in the near $50M range for a few years and was hoping it would be a starting pitcher. Rodon, now with very productive innings from 2021 under his belt, seemed like as good choice as any to fill his departure by signing him again and doing a better job of limiting his inning than last year. You get a high quality starting pitcher in that price range and only 2 years because of his unreliable injury history. That's the chance you might have to take given that anyone on a lengthy expensive contract was out for RF, SP and 2nd base. The Giants already look like they are treating him better than the Sox did. Last year in ST the Sox gave him 13.2 IP, the Giants so far just 6.2 IP . I would imagine the Giants also pitch him less innings in the 1st half than the Sox did even though with the Sox he was coming off 2 years of barely pitching and with the Giants he now has 132.2 IP under his belt from 2021.

Didn't you ask me this before ? I would've felt better if they had resigned Rodon and Cease continued on his upward path and Kopech was added to the starting rotation depth to replace Keuchel if he faltered again. Kopech as long relief/ occasional starter in a bigger role than last year but a role the Sox could manage his innings more effectively. I'm worried that Kopech will not have enough left in the tank and/or not be effective enough to be counted on in the playoffs. It's not impossible that the Sox do a good job of keeping him fresh and he surpasses my expectations of him in his ability to thrust himself in a top 3 starter for the playoffs. It's a double edge sword that needs both edges to be sharp.

Right I was going to put your caveat of your expectations at the end of my post but didn't. I never had expectations for Vaughn in his 1st year the same as I don't have them for Kopech in his 1st time as a full time starting pitcher. My expectations for Robert and Robert are pretty much the same as last year to fulfill the high side of as yet unfulfilled consistency by staying on the field. I, too, thought he could be a superstar but only after 2019 when he played very well, but in the bold predictions from last year many were saying boldly he would be MVP. After 2020 I didn't share those thoughts. It was a combination of him getting Covid and reports he was just irresponsible with who he was hanging out with that changed my expectations.