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I don't think it's a matter of being fooled by a ST sample size. Of course any team will have to check his minor league stats from last year and watch video but also have to understand where he is coming from. If he never had as many injuries as he did he could've been a big power hitting OF with a very strong arm . He has tools that teams look for. They also have to analyze his process. He is selective, does he drive the ball the opposite way, break down his mechanics etc.. It's exactly why I made the thread about him. I would be fine with merging the 2 threads

I wouldn't call his best outcome a Daniel Palka type existence because Palka was never a viable option as a fielder. Adolfo can play RF probably average or slightly above average, kind of like Pollock only with an arm to make runners think twice about heading to 3rd . There are very few guys with an arm like his. I haven't seen Cola's arm yet but Cespedes also has a cannon.

Frankly I thought it sucked. Now don't get me wrong Collins sucked at framing but that video didn't prove anything . 1st of all in order for a catcher to be an effective framer the pitcher has to throw the ball where the catcher is setup and throw it either in the zone or very close to the zone. Once in a while a really good framer will steals some pitches a good 3-5 inches off the plate but they still have to be thrown on the side where the catcher setup. Of the 12 examples they gave for McGuire the pitcher threw the ball where he was setup 10 times and almost all the pitches were knee to waist high. Most of the time a catcher either sets up on the inside or outside edge. McGuire looked setup down the middle 1 of the times. Of the 14 examples for Collins only 6 of the pitches were actually thrown where he setup and while the pitches to McGuire were usually knee to waist high not only did the Sox pitchers miss their spots but the majority of the pitches to Collins were also down below the strike zone . So when you add it up the pitches not only missed the spot where Collins setup but also missed down. Only one of the 14 examples was a strike actually called a ball when Collins was setup up and in and the pitch came down and in . There was another example with Crochet pitching where Collins set up outside and the pitch caught the inside edge at 92MPH that was called a ball. But 1st rule of getting framed pitches called strikes is hitting your spot and Crochet missed his spot by a lot. So basically the video shows McGuire catching pitches where he setup, catching pitches from knee to waist high, on pitches in the zone or barely off the zone. Most catchers given the same set of circumstances are going to get strikes called. With Collins they showed pitchers not only missing their spots but also missing down where most catchers given the same circumstances would also get those pitches called balls. I'm pretty sure I can put together a video of Collins catching strikes that were thrown to where he setup inside the zone and or off the plate by the slimmest of margins being called strikes too. I 'm also fairly certain that I could show McGuire catching pitches getting called balls by the ump on not only pitches that missed the spot but were also down and out of the zone.

Oh no never feel alone on that. I wanted Rodon back pretty bad. I know plenty disagreed with it but I never felt shouted down. You disagreed with it too. As a matter of fact I was disagreed with on just about everything concerning Rodon. I didn't like how much he pitched early in the season. I really harped on the fact that he would get tired and wouldn't be available to pitch his best in the playoffs. People said he was injured and I said he was tired. Then I wanted him to get a QO and many said Sox know him best. I trust their judgement on his arm. Or they talked about some under the table deal with Boras If you wanted a guy with ace potential for relatively short term he always seemed like the best choice especially since he got some innings under his belt last year. Sure it's a risk with his injury history but that's why you could get a guy who pitched like Scherzer without the Scherzer contract.

You were funnier when you were a White Sox fan.

I hope the Sox get all kinds of competition in the division. It will keep them sharp or show they wilt under pressure. It's hard to keep an edge wen you know you can coast to a division title without your 2 best hitters like last year. You have to be prepared to go to war when you finally enter the playoff war. Time to play with a snarl instead of a smile.

I wouldn't get carried away. Didn't you just list Kopech as the Sox #2 starter ? There's no way that happens with his innings limits and the Covid he had getting him off to a late start . He will be #5 pretty much all season.I'd even go so far as to say that he isn't even likely to go a full 5 innings until at least late April

Sorry to all those debating things with me. I have to go see my brother who is in from Chicago and won't be checking on Soxtalk until late in the evening.

I have no idea what you're asking me based on the quote you quoted from me. The thing you quoted was talking about how the Braves "got" lucky. It's funny how the Braves got lucky in your mind but the Sox were stupid to make the trade for Kimbrel but you give no credit for the Braves for being smart.

All three teams among the Astro's, Braves and Cubs did it in different ways. The Sox got it right at the beginning because they got a lot of good young talent. That talent has been inconsistent due to injuries, Covid regression or what have you. They signed free agents Grandal and Hendriks to address needs. Hahns strength has never been trading for pieces for the betterment of the team. I don't know if its their pro scouting or lack of analytics or what. I'm not behind the scenes. I'm just commenting on how things are currently developing based on a series of observations on how the club was run in the past. The Braves either got lucky or were smart in making the trades they did to advance to where they were and put them over the top in a year that wasn't going well. They also had 2 well paid superstars in Freeman and Acuna. The Sox got unlucky or were dumb in 2021 at the TDL and without $100M superstars. The Cubs spent a ton of money on Heyward and Lester. The Sox don't do that. The Astros drafted well and their 2017 middling payroll had great young players who were making nothing and still had a decent farm system ( Correa, Springer, Bregman Altuve) which allowed them to trade for Verlander who put them over the top. The Sox payroll is high , their farm is barren and our position players do not have the defensive capabilities with the combined bats of Bregman. Altuve, Springer and Correa.

I'm at a loss. I wanted them to resign Rodon but a lot of the board didn't. Plus picking up Kimbrel's option didn't help in that regard. Nor the whole Kimbrel trade either for that matter when you add in the cost for Harrison and just saving just $4M on the Pollock trade.

It's not either/or . Do you even read my posts? I gave them credit for getting us to this point.

Well I'm debating it so that makes it debatable. All the moves they made prior to 2021 led them to where they were. Injuries forced their hand and they dealt with it. Was it lucky that all 4 guys they got performed? Sure there was luck involved with that but they identified their needs and the moves paid off. Did that happen for the Sox in 2021 ? Nope . Period . End of story.

That the Sox FO isnt as smart as the Braves, Cubs and Astros, they don't sign big contracts, they don't draft well and they don't care about winning. Each of those clubs made the moves necessary to advance in different ways and I'm not seeing an advancement for this year because they didn't allocate resources well and they have gone backwards since the 2021 TDL . How many times do I have to repeat myself to you ?

Your missing the progress each and every year. Don't say I didn't warn you when the Sox don't make the ALCS this year. They also had 2 Superstars in Acuna and Freeman who both signed contracts @ $100M and higher. Do the Sox have anyone who can be called a superstar or anyone who signed big contracts ? They signed free agent Nov, 2020 Charlie Morton Morton, 37,(at the time) battled some shoulder fatigue and was limited to nine starts and 38 innings in 2020, pitching to a 4.74 ERA in that short time. Hmm shoulder fatigue, kind of sounds like Rodon . Braves made the NLCS that year then they resigned him for 2022. What Starting pitcher did the White Sox sign after losing in the playoffs and losing Rodon with Keuchel and Kopech huge question marks and no minor league depth ? They resigned Lynn before that because Keuchel was looking terrible and Rodon was about to become gassed.

That was always my question since the rebuild started so no I didn't trust them from the start. They didn't address a lot of things that were wrong with the organization until well after the rebuild started. They were always college heavy in the draft, nor did they prioritize middle of the field players. They didn't spend on young guys in the Int'l draft and traded away money. They lagged behind in biomechanics and high tech equipment for development purposes. Then Covid and the looming strike which I was mentioning back in 2020 as obstacles . Then Jerry completely circumvented all attempts to hire a manager by giving the job to TLR. Plus no contracts over $90M yet and the results of the front office since the 2021 trade deadline. I don't care who thinks I'm negative and I won't describe you as carrying water. I just am very good at seeing a complete picture of things that have always stood in the Sox way since the Reindorf reign started. If you want to focus on how wonderful they have done in trading good players for the guys who have got us to this point that's fine by me. I didn't just start saying what I'm saying. I've saying it a long time. I said the Sox wouldn't sign Conforto back in November or December.

Highly debatable . Record wise sure but if you plot their progression from what they did from 2018-2020 their record was a result of an injury to one of the best players in baseball and the 2 time Achilles tears to Soroka in 2020 and again in 2021. They rebuilt their whole outfield smartly and it paid off even better than expected.

I think what you said is setting themselves back a year because I gave examples of how they did what you said.

Pittsburgh will take him if they try to do that or someone else. Maybe giving the Pirates the 1st crack at him is worth Q.

Come on now, credit is deserved for getting the Sox to the point they have but the question has always been will they be smart enough to finish it off. That remains to be seen but it's not exactly trending in the right direction.

I'm focusing on the negative because that's all there has been since the 2021 TDL . Yes Grandal and Hendriks have been good . But imagine if the Sox didn't extend Lynn and it becomes another prospect for a 1 year pitcher. The trade for Pollock was just a way to try to eliminate the disaster the Kimbrel trade created but we lost a cost controlled Madrigal and spent money on Harrison and it pushed the payroll higher replacing the Kimbrel $16M salary with Pollock's $12M and they didn't address the SP depth at all thus creating another disaster waiting to happen. Surprise Lynn hurt, Crochet out for the year . There's a whole lot of negative going on. In 2018 the Braves lost in the playoffs in 4 games in the division series. In 2019 they lost in the division series in 5 games. In 2020 they lost in the Championship series in 7 games. 2021 they won the World Series. That's progress year by year, all set up by a series of moves that allowed them to go a little farther every year.

Quintana only cost the Pirates $2M . He could be likely.

Look I do appreciate your optimism and wish I could share it but since you brought up the Braves here's an article on how drafting and trades led to them being in a position to compete at a high level and that article didn't even include the TDL deals from 2021. It's all about making successful moves in the draft, trades, free agent signings ( some of which would be very costly) and allocating resources properly and continuing moving forward. The Braves, Cubs and Astros did all that. The Sox just set themselves back a year since the 2021 TDL. The bad system, bad trades, allocating resources properly ,not addressing the SP depth or the right handedness of the position players. Throw Covid, the strike and injuries into the mix and it's been pretty bad. If the Sox don't win a World Series the series of moves starting at the 2021 TDL and this off season that was a result of those moves will be pointed out as the main culprit. https://www.mlb.com/news/braves-nlcs-run-product-of-successful-rebuild

I don't care who gives credit for whom. If you trade them away it really doesn't matter. I was never once arguing about credit. What matters is a championship and the moves that led to it. Between the TDL last year and all the moves since then trying to make up for those disastrous moves isn't exactly pushing the needle in the Sox direction for a championship. Throw in the draft picks and lack of spending big money which were key components of the Astros and Cubs Championship, I'm not willing to give the FO credit for anything. How you and Caulfield divvy who gets credit for developing playing is not germane to winning a World Series.

It would be very difficult to give the Sox any credit because they traded him ,which if he becomes an All Star it will mean they traded away an All-Star giving up a cost controlled player for a $16M relief pitcher they then had to trade for a 34 yr old OF for a year or 2. Plus on top of that they kept Kimbrel but no QO to Rodon nor did they pursue Rodon as a FA . They bloated the payroll, had no depth at Starting pitching, had to pay for another old guy to cover 2nd base. Plus they had to replace Madrigal (who was injured) so they traded Hernandez for Pilkington who has made Cleveland's roster to start the season. That's just a really nasty chain of events all linked to the TDL trades, all linked to a higher payroll , older players and no starting pitching depth. Not exactly championship quality moves.