CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Right, that's where we do agree but the question always has been how do they do that given the no big contracts quandry. Address the SP 1st and then go from there regarding the BP ,RF, and 2nd. I put myself out there to be disagreed with by saying it should have been Rodon and I give everyone a chance who disagrees the chance to say I told you so when he gets injured. But I sure don't see any real good top of rotation suggestions that could 've been signed or traded for without either a big multiyear contract or trading the guys I already mentioned.

That's the other old tired argument, giving the Sox FO the benefit of the doubt on personnel decisions. How did that work out for you with Madrigal and Collins?

We aren't . We are talking about him being the best chance at replacing that production given that the Sox were never going to pay for a top of the rotation SP or apparently trade for one given the lack of minor league quality pitchers and not willing to trade Crochet, Vaughn, Sheets. Burger, Montgomery, Kopech or Vera.

Then you tell me what the Sox should have done to replace Rodon's production and Keuchel's downfall and keep in mind that a big contract was out of the question.

Again disingenuous, you're pretending or implying he should have been a workhorse . The only way he could have been a good starter in the playoffs was if the Sox had managed his innings better after 2 straight years of not pitching. Kopech has some advantage in that he pitched 69 innings last year. His disadvantage is he has the same people handling him as Rodon last year and his total lack of big league starting experience.

I understand your position on Rodon as long as you understand mine. I never expected the Sox to sign anyone for big money this off season. That has proven true. However, I did expect a signing in the near $50M range for a few years and was hoping it would be a starting pitcher. Rodon, now with very productive innings from 2021 under his belt, seemed like as good choice as any to fill his departure by signing him again and doing a better job of limiting his inning than last year. You get a high quality starting pitcher in that price range and only 2 years because of his unreliable injury history. That's the chance you might have to take given that anyone on a lengthy expensive contract was out for RF, SP and 2nd base. The Giants already look like they are treating him better than the Sox did. Last year in ST the Sox gave him 13.2 IP, the Giants so far just 6.2 IP . I would imagine the Giants also pitch him less innings in the 1st half than the Sox did even though with the Sox he was coming off 2 years of barely pitching and with the Giants he now has 132.2 IP under his belt from 2021.

Didn't you ask me this before ? I would've felt better if they had resigned Rodon and Cease continued on his upward path and Kopech was added to the starting rotation depth to replace Keuchel if he faltered again. Kopech as long relief/ occasional starter in a bigger role than last year but a role the Sox could manage his innings more effectively. I'm worried that Kopech will not have enough left in the tank and/or not be effective enough to be counted on in the playoffs. It's not impossible that the Sox do a good job of keeping him fresh and he surpasses my expectations of him in his ability to thrust himself in a top 3 starter for the playoffs. It's a double edge sword that needs both edges to be sharp.

Right I was going to put your caveat of your expectations at the end of my post but didn't. I never had expectations for Vaughn in his 1st year the same as I don't have them for Kopech in his 1st time as a full time starting pitcher. My expectations for Robert and Robert are pretty much the same as last year to fulfill the high side of as yet unfulfilled consistency by staying on the field. I, too, thought he could be a superstar but only after 2019 when he played very well, but in the bold predictions from last year many were saying boldly he would be MVP. After 2020 I didn't share those thoughts. It was a combination of him getting Covid and reports he was just irresponsible with who he was hanging out with that changed my expectations.

AT least for the beginning of the season with both the starting and relief pitching. The injury to Lynn just underscored the fact that the Sox never converted on their stated goals to improve the starting pitcher. The Kopech delay from Covid didn't help either. The injuries to Crochet and Kelly hurt both the high end late innings relief while the Crochet injury and 2 missing pieces impacted the back end long relief guys if Lopez has to start any games.

Madrigal was actually above average despite all the talk about his bad base running and fielding in his rookie year. In his limited time in 2021 he was a positive base runner (UBR 2.0 )and fielder ( OAA 1.0, UZR .6) As a hitter in both 2020 and 2021 his wRC+ were respectively 111 and 113 and the Sox will miss the financial flexibility he provided. It sucked that like many of our young players that he was injured too much. I will also say that Vaughn will be an upgrade. I don't think there's any chance his 2nd year in MLB will be worse than his 1st year. Robert should be a huge upgrade because he haven't even got to see him play yet for any extended period of time. Eloy is capable of doing better than last year since he has proven he can slug .500+ . He also just has to stay on the field more.

Probably not but Rodon's production still needed to be replaced, not just another body thrown at it, if you are genuinely serious about a championship quality rotation. You're not exactly going out on a limb with that prediction.

I am quite literally amazed anyone can say that. Cease is on an upward growth path the many pitchers go through. If he continues on that path he can indeed become Cy Young worthy. This is starting to sound like the expectations placed on Vaughn last year. Different past circumstances surrounding them but still in their very 1st time logging serious time in their positions in MLB.

Is this definition in the dictionary ? Because I don't see it that way, that's how it's debatable. See me at the end of the year when he produces 5 WAR all by himself. Saying Rodon was God awful in the playoffs is disingenuous. We all knew he wasn't the same pitcher in the 2nd half as the 1st half but chances were he wasn't going to be able to pitch in the playoffs anyway because of his lack of innings the previous 2 years. Let's hope the Sox hierarchy is a little more careful with Kopech.

But unlike Rodon, Kopech hasn't already gone through the trials and tribulations that young starting pitchers so often do. He went trough the trials and tribulations in his personal life and health before he became a Starting pitcher in MLB. I'm not sure if you are implying that Rodon had Covid. If you believe that Kopech can be a 5 WAR player this year and are happy about him and Keuchel ,V V, Cueto, Lopez in your stating rotation so be it. My bold prediction is those 5 together cannot equal the 5 WAR that Rodon produced last year.

Cueto is on his last legs and needs a few week to get ready and maybe Keuchel is too. That's the long and short of it Greg.

I don't think Rodon's replacement is Kopech. He is a young guy just starting out as an MLB starting pitcher . To replace the production of a 5 WAR player you have to get someone who has shown that ability to be a 5 WAR player in the very recent past. He will have his troubles. Plus the older guys like Lynn and Keuchel are a year older and Keuchel coming off a bad year. Kopech was better off as a replacement for Keuchel , one old question mark replaced by a young question mark. That's a better definition of a "replaced." One question mark for another question mark with the potential to be a better replacement because Keuchel's best years are behind him while Kopech's are ahead of him. If you want to compete at a championship level you must have starting pitching depth. If you want to use "replaced" as we threw a young guy with a lot of unproven potential coming off an offseason of Covid, we have a very different definition of "replaced". If that was the plan all along why was it that Hahn told us we needed more starting pitching and the lineup had to be balanced ? Any time you start throwing around talent that is unproven or fighting father time into your starting rotation ( Kopech, Lopez, Cueto, Keuchel, Velasquez) in your aspirations for a championship chances are that you aren't going to get that championship.

I know the word "bust" encompasses many ways in which young players fail. Like many of them the Rodon failure was always injury related. He always had high end talent but his mechanics sucked and led to injuries. Sometimes a player can overcome a previous reputation. It's very hard for people who have been at the top of the athletic food chain for most of their lives to discard the things that made them successful. It may also be hard to actually work harder because things had come so easy before. Rodon made changes and came out the best version of himself. The question now has been and forever will be with him "will the changes he made also help him stay healthier" ? That's where we are all divided. It's always easiest to go with the flow and say he's always been bad, he's always been unhealthy , he is what he is and will never be anything else and a high percentage of the time you will be right. I like to go against the grain sometimes because it's a belief in the player rather than a belief in his past. Plus logically my head told me he was the best chance at a high upside arm at the lowest possible cost. To most of the board Conforto was worth twice as much as Rodon. But I'd rather take my shot at an often injured high end 29 yr. old talent from just a year ago for the next 2 years for what the Giants paid for him than throw money at Harrison, Kimbrel, Leury etc.. When you lose your best starting pitcher he has to be replaced with someone equally impressive. Rodon was the best person to replace himself without the 5year $100M contract people were expecting for and willing to pay for Conforto, a guy who had a very good track record of success but a terrible year in 2021. Apparently even though certain people here told us that GM's would not be as swayed by the bad year as fans are, apparently one GM was swayed more by a guy coming off an elite 1/2 year. There are also apparently 30 other GM's not overly swayed by Conforto's past success.

When you are always positive people see it as fake, like the way Steve Garvey was seen. Garvey with the Superman good looks , big smile ,very good hitter and fielder was a fan favorite though and that attitude got him tons of commercials, motivation speaker gigs , radio and TV time. A lot of his peers didn't like him. They called him The Senator and Mr. Perfect. You should know by now that losing game threads are twice as long as winning ones. It's not macho to be all sweet , kind and positive because you end up looking like a caricature . How often to you hear it's exhausting rather than , it's refreshing.

Royals 11th rounder back in 2013 26 yrs old now, non roster invitee.

Mieses and Yolbert 2 singles , Dedelow 3 HR all with 2 outs.

People with a very competitive nature can seem like asses. But once out of the competition , most of them are decent.

Nice in game interview with Snell. Seems pretty personable.

So you want to promote censorship ? If we are talking baseball and which involves the players and the front office decisions what's the beef ? We are all allowed our opinions and there will be lots of people who don't agree with almost anything anyone says. If they want to say it over and over again that's away to get a message across. Do people promoting any issue ever that's important to people ever shut up ? Not really. I don't care of your issue is people's rights or baseball. People have lots of opinions about Rodon. Your opinion is he gets hurt and you just told the rest of us to STFU and made a definitely statement like it is the gospel truth. . So basically you have spoken, you are right and the rest should shut up ? You sound like you are promoting your dictatorship.

Real good play by Cronenworth up the middle to steal a knock from Jose.

Timmy's been a ribbie machine this spring.