CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Exactly, that's why I get on him sometimes because I prefer a 3rd sacker who hits. I like hitterish guys like Brantley and lefties with sweet swings and guys with a good slugging percentage. His overall game is boring, lots of walks, lots of K's ,and very solid D. It's not sexy but he's good for 4 WAR . I still was one of a few who put him on my current Sox Mt. Rushmore because of that over guys like Eloy and Robert because they haven't been on the field enough yet. Not many took that thread seriously .

And the winner is Soxlover15 !!

Wow just what that newish guy predicted a 3-2 game when so many thought the over of 10 runs was a lock.

In fairness to Ptatc I will say that no one ever puts injury issues behind them when you have a long history of such things. But conversely guys who are never injured can also start getting injured frequently. DO I think Rodon has a better chance of injury than Keuchel and any other pitcher . Yes. Does that automatically happen to Rodon before it happens to other pitchers . NO since any player can be injured at any time as we have seen with Moncada , Gio, Pollock, Kelly, Lynn ,Crochet so far. Do I think Rodon is a better pitcher than 90 % of starting pitchers in baseball right now ? Yes but the question remains how long will his arm hold up and if he is injured in any way how significant will it be and will he be able to pitch in the playoffs? Those are things I think about any elite pitcher who is much older and without arm troubles. Did you see Gerrit Cole have a meltdown because the opening day ceremonies took too long and delayed his start by 4 minutes. Some pitchers are very meticulous when it comes to routine because they think any deviation from that routine could hurt their performance and their health.

I actually think he got hurt because he hustled. He took a pretty aggressive turn around 1st base and looked liked he grabbed his hammy after he put on the brakes very quickly. It still might have something to do with the weather. Some stretching and a long jog to keep the muscles warm might help and also some tiger balm slathered all over arms , legs back , hips and stomach probably wouldn't hurt either. Imagine the smell in the clubhouse and dugout it everyone did that .

Says the guy who is mad about Vaughn not playing, but then again you always seem to be on the right side of popular opinion.

I didn't know you were his wife ! Congratulations on the nuptials !

Based on the fact that Ray Ray is his lover

You mix the most popular guy on the Sox next to TA and throw in the most hated manager and this is what it leads to.

I have no idea what you are talking about . Can you please clarify ?

Look for a young player who started off hot a good manager is going to sit down with him and tell him why and reassure him he will get plenty of AB's. Nothing is obvious to me because I don't make assumptions like everyone else does that Vaughn is a problem for TLR. It's a long long season and you are panicking over nothing.

LOl you sure read a lot into "debated". There's a lot more to talk about with the lineup than just Vaughn. I would imagine keeping Grandal as healthy as possible while keeping him in the lineup and getting another LH who happens to be a really good defensive catcher was a good part of the debate too.

Sample sizes only count when it's in favor of your favorite player.

He could pitch just OK somewhere between 2020 and 2021 where he might be just good enough to get the 160 innings or not make the 160 innings during the season. That's why I asked if playoff innings counted towards the vesting option. If he starts 30 games and averages 5 innings a game with a 4.25 ERA that isn't terrible in the AL and could warrant playoff starts beyond the 1st round depending on all the other starting pitchers availability. That would be 150 IP during the season but maybe a couple of playoffs start to push him beyond 160 . If the playoffs innings don't count towards the option that's the best situation I can come up with.

Of course I never made the point that it was choose Rodon or Keuchel at the exact same moment in time. The choice was the contracts at different points in time when one was trusted to be good over a long stretch ( 4yrs Max) while the other wasn't trusted to be good over a 2 yr stretch ( possibly one yr. if he opts out of the SF contract.)

Considering the rest of the year won't be an even 50/50 split with RHSP vs. LHSP AV will get a lot of starts against RHP as he should. As the AB's pile up for both Vaughn and Sheets there will be more data to make an informed decision . If Vaughn shows significant improvement against RHP while Sheets takes a big OPS drop against them I will be all for Vaughn on an everyday basis. But it's fair to say neither one should be in RF but that's what happens when you have too many 1B DH types. Vaughn will definitely get more starts in the OF than Sheets will since he's proven himself competent in LF.

And if Vaughn starts in RF are you going to say the same thing ? I mean I already said it sucks to have him in RF especially with Velasquez pitching.

It's the pitcher that is taking AB's away from righties this game. It's not just Vaughn. That's why we have Leury, Grandal and McGuire all in the lineup .

I'm not, I hope it does happen. I want him to earn his money. Don't want to root against him at all but I'm not expecting much.

LOL You don't want Sheets to get any AB's to see if that .900 OPS against righties wasn't a mirage ? I know it sucks to have him in RF but looks like TLR is getting the lefties in the lineup against a guy with a nasty slider. It will take a lot of AB's by both Sheets and Vaughn to see if things have changed for both of them.

Hey we agree. If he's good imagine how many innings he gets plus playoff innings . Do playoff innings count towards the options year ?

It's more about what have you done lately. Keuchel was always a soft thrower who was the definition of a pitcher, hit your spots keep hitters off balance. However any further reduction in his stuff or command and you have a terrible pitcher who, if bad again this year, cost you $54M for 2 bad years and 1 good year with his only attribute that he probably won't get injured. Rodon on the other hand almost single handedly rocketed the Sox to the best record in baseball in the 1st half and without him at his best in the 2nd half the Sox were a .500 team. Even if you matched the SF offer you already got a great 1/2 year from him with the promise of more great pitching ,with durability issues slightly lessened by the innings he pitched last year and his work to strengthen that part of his game. Compared to the Keuchel deal it wouldn't have been that bad. But we have already established how we both feel about Rodon. The only reason we disagree is because the Sox would rather pay out decent money 3yr. $54M w/option year for $20M on an older, durable, mediocre pitcher and hope he can be better than mediocre and stay healthy than pay out decent money on a younger, not so durable , great pitcher (recent greatness). Those seem to be our only 2 options since many years for great money isn't an option. Bad innings pitched is still innings pitched ,saves BP arms, but still costs you losses and he still has a chance to get hurt like any other pitcher. Good innings pitched gets you more wins but if you get hurt your replacement usually isn't going to get wins or save BP arms. We're both looking at "6 of one, half dozen of the other" situations, worse case scenarios.

They looked pretty good after his 1st year but the huge drop off last year hurt badly. Going forward you want him to be good of course but that might mean $20M on him next year.

It's pretty sad that Cueto on a minor league deal was better last year than Keuchel making $18M. 1.5 fWAR for Cueto in 16 starts and Keuchel .6 fWAR in 30 starts. Cueto also K's more and walks less per 9 IP than Keuchel. Of course JC pitched in SF while Keuchel pitched here so Cueto could be just as bad or worse here . His 1st year here was damn good but if his last 2 stink getting Wheeler instead of Keuchel could've made a big difference. Still it makes me wonder if the Keuchel durabilty and rep as a quality innings eater was more important at the front of the window than taking a shot on Rodon being excellent with durability issues smack dab in the middle of the contention window. Obviously the Sox were hoping Keuchel could be more valuable during the middle of the window but it hasn't yet. Chalk another one up (so far) for good money on mediocrity.

Someone who loves to troll Soxtalk and punk everyone here. Keeping Vaughn and getting rid of Sheets is some people's here wet dream. Sheets is the only guy standing in TLR's way of getting Vaughn 600 AB's.