CaliSoxFanViaSWside

A lot of this place hated the Melky and LaRoche deals. I was pretty sure I hated the Laroche deal but didn't hate the Melky deal. But plenty of people hated both.

When I have trouble making up my mind on an issue I just think how could the Sox FO have fucked this up. A lot of people here stuck up for the Sox FO because of the "they know him best" routine so there must be something wrong with him. I took the opposite approach that he was fine, just worn out. His innings pitched the last few years indicated way ahead of time that he would likely wear down. Plus he did make starts down the stretch and one in the playoffs right ? I might think the Sox FO is terrible but I don't think they would have started Rodon if there was anything structurally wrong with his arm. So that left some other odd unknown reason why they didn't use the QO and there's the FO fuck up. The guy gave it everything he had last year and that's why I want him back . Oh yea along with being maybe the best pitcher in baseball the 1st half of the season.

Right I know how long the odds are that we get 2 good controlled good young players that solve SP and RF , gives the Sox another 11M under the cap and gets rid of Kimbrel and Keuchel all in one trade. But I just wanted to show that there are creative ways to approach things and lots of other players out there than to keep hearing Bassitt, Montas, Manea, Marte, Conforto.

Maybe instead of trying to get Marte you go for Zac Gallen and Dalton Varsho. Varsho is an odd combination of OF/C but if I'm not mistaken had a very nice OAA in the OF and he does bat LH. He is 24 and Gallen is 25. Throw the kitchen sink at Az. Vaughn, Burger, Sheets, Kimbrel, Keuchel Crochet, whoever. Maybe offer the Kimbrel and Keuchel contracts and take on Bumgarner's along with Gallen and Varsho.Then u have RF and SP set and all u have to replace is some relief pitching and rotate DH among our remaining old guys like Grandal , Abreu, some Eloy. You trade $34M worth of Kimbrel and Keuchel in 2022 for Bumgarners $60M through 2024 with $23M for 2022 ,so saving 11M on 2022 but gaining $23M in 2023 and $14M in 2024 and maybe give up less in prospect capital , maybe add Lopez into the deal since that's a lot of SP we are taking from AZ. Keuchel, Kimbrel, Crochet, Lopez,Vaughn+ plus taking on $26M in salary for Gallen, Varsho and Bumgarner. Gallen is Arb 3 in 2025 and Varsho is Arb 4 in 2026. Sorry I was trying to figure this all out as I was writing it. Would be a huge trade and we get decent youth with a lot of years left. Plus I was kind of sick of hearing the same old names in trades for the OF and starting pitching.

What exactly happened to Rodon has always been a topic of discussion and there is no definitive answer so I have heard your opinion before from others.I of course am of the opinion that now that he has some innings under his belt last that he is much better off mechanically from Working with Katz. This is from The Ringer: The key, Katz says, was changing how Rodón pushed off the rubber. Before, he’d been driving with just his toe, which was sending him toward first base and setting into motion all the mechanical messiness that had plagued him over the previous few years. Katz’s goal was to get Rodón to drive more off his back leg and use his entire foot to explode off the rubber. So to me it was Rodon's work with Katz that made him dominant, very dominant and I'd take the chance that he could be dominant again only for more innings this year because while he may not do everything mechanically correct he is way better than he was mechanically.

It's not pessimism it's reality. Last year I was saying very early on that once Rodon was dominant that the Sox needed to slow their roll on him because he was getting too many innings and the Sox would need him in the playoffs and it all turned out to be true. By the middle of July he had pitched 6 or more innings 8 times. After that he averaged less than 5 innings per start and was burnt out when they needed him most. Now Kopech has some built in advantage that Rodon didn't in that he pitched 69 innings last year while Rodon pitched 7.2. If you're going to say I'm pessimistic then I can say you are overly optimistic and I wish I could share that with you. I am certainly not willing to say how many innings Kopech pitches next year but I'm hoping it's around 100 innings during the season and he's fresh for another 30 innings in the playoffs if he has a good enough season to warrant it.

That's putting an awful lot of expectations on a guy who had 4 starts in 2021and had 1 start of 5 innings. It's one thing to be a dominant reliever and quite another for a guy to be a dominant starter on an innings limit and basically 0 MLB starting experience and a couple of years off before that. On top of all that to keep him fresh for the playoffs that means lots of time between starts and just how do you expect him to be our ACE when you can't pitch enough to get into a groove or find your stuff if you start having control or command issues. I have more faith in Conforto having a rebound year and being a good signing than I do in Kopech being the SOx ace or even number 3 starter in the playoffs. And I don't have all that much faith in Conforto. But I do recognize how valuable he could be because he has done it before. Kopech hasn't done anything at this level to indicate he can go from where he has been to an ACE this year. This all sounding like the Vaughn hype train once Eloy went down.

Nope, after no one believed in him in the minors because of lack of power there aren't going to be too many round these parts thinking 2021 was real. It was a fluke showing a lot of power because well umm his AB's were cherry picked ? That's the advantage of being LH ,there's a ton of RH pitchers to pick cherries from. But Vaughn was raw at the beginning of the year and tired at the end of the year and has a massive pedigree. I'd still give Vaughn a much higher chance of a better career than Sheets . But I'm not thinking either one is a finished product offensively or defensively. I'm not convinced that Vaughn is more valuable to the Sox right now then Sheets is. The operative words being "right now". Maybe they both get traded. All I know is that the Sox need a LH or TOR type starting pitcher and LH mashing. How they go about getting both will inspire plenty of Sox talking.

I'm with you. I'd sign Rodon before Conforto. Maybe if they outlawed the shift this year I'd be better with Conforto but teams are taking hits away from him. Conforto may sound like the ideal signing but it's always a scary thought to sign someone to a long term deal coming off a career worst yr., who isn't all that on defense either. I don't see the Sox signing anyone to a 4 year deal among the free agents. I don't have a RF solution but sign Rodon, get rid of Kimbrel and find a LH RF to trade for who can field. Ketel Marte ? sign Odubel Herrera ? See if the D'Backs will trade Daulton Varsho ?

I got branded a Vaughn hater too only because when there is so much love for a prospect and my main concern was making the playoffs , I dared to speak out against his playing time early in the season stressing that he was too inexperienced offensively and defensibly and thought the left handed journeyman OF's should get AB's too. The backlash was pretty shocking to me. He was way out of his depth for the 1st few months. I just wish his development didn't coincide with the window of contention in such a right handed dominant lineup. He's going to have to earn his playing time this year. If he gets traded a lot of people around here are going to be pretty angry. I might be too depending on the return.

The actual final vote for Manfred was unanimous. A various points it was 20-10 and 26-4.

100 game season so whatever date would correlate to that.

https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/madden-waging-old-school-battle-jerry-reinsdorf-defeated-rob-manfred-elected-mlb-commissioner-article-1.1904457

Once the pandemic started I made numerous posts saying this and the new CBA were going to be major stumbling blocks to the Sox window of contention along with their inability to sign game changers and with the same people in charge who were responsible for making the calls that put them in a position to rebuild in the 1st place.

Thank you. Because of you I was able to cancel it. I know it's auto renew but Is it strange to not receive an email notice letting me know it was going to be renewed ? I didn't get anything.

Excuse me sir. You are only allowed to think of Bauer as a scumbag and tell him to fuck off. Any other opinion will not be tolerated even though no one knows as much about the matter as they think they do. You must pretend that you are a saint with highly controversial subject matter . There is no other position worthy of discussion. Trevor Bauer is at the very least a huge asshole and at worst a deviant sex fiend women beater who , with his money and power, has some how managed to escape justice.

- Perform one year to re-do the MLB Draft for the White Sox. - You can only select players taken in the same round, after the white sox were selected OR ahead of a white sox selection if the sox bonus given that pick was for more than that player (helpful for 2nd round and later) - Total budget must equal that year's budget Sound Good? It's not over - You also have to grapple with what effect that would have on the sox. For example, 2012 draft was terrible. But if you swap out Courtney Hawkins for a Corey Seager - do the white sox still perform the rebuild? Do they trade Tim Anderson for a pitcher instead of Tatis Jr in 2016? Cry me a river. The OP said the above. While others have attempted what he suggested in some form to make the team better in some alternate universe using the results of the player drafted vs. the results of the players that could have been drafted instead. I guess the great thing about this thread is that you can twist the purpose of the OP into anything you want to push the same tired narrative in your universe.

All I see right now is a guy with -.7 fWAR and 2.5 years younger than Madrigal. Waiting for all our young players to have good full seasons is what's holding the Sox back . The minors is where you put guys with promise, not in the lineup like you're doing with Kelenic and Vaughn. Why you'd pick 2018 seems strange when there are so many players drafted in previous years who have already had good seasons. 2015 draft . 8th pick: Carson Fulmer ( $3,470,600) Tyler Stephenson went 11 and Walker Buehler went 26th and signed under slot for under $2M. Let's just say the Sox drafted Stephenson. So then in 2016 there's no need to draft Collins @10 . Kyle Lewis 11, Alex Kirilloff 15th, Lux 20th. Will go with Lux here since the other 2 are OF's and in the 2nd rd. the Sox go with... HS Switchhitting OF Dylan Carlson who went 33rd to StL. instead of Burdi at 26. Also in 2015 the Sox picks after the 1st rd were: 4th round, Zack Erwin , 5th round Jordan Stephens, 6th Corey Zagari , 7th rd pick # 202 was Blake Hickman. At pick 208 was Jake Cronenworth , Bats L, Throws right 2nd base from Michigan. Maybe later in round 13 you take another LH OF Cedric Mullins instead of Ryan Riga.

Assuming you meant Gavin Sheets. And if I recall they always said he had power but game power is something that is harder to project .Any big strong guy and even guys like Ichiro can hit bombs in BP .

I hope that guy isn't the Sox Director of minor league development. If he is you have to wonder why someone who doesn't understand anything about baseball would be in that position. Can you imagine some computer stat head who never played the game and probably 20 yrs + younger than you trying to convince you to change a scouting grade on a player ? You would think an interview asking questions to probe his knowledge of the game, not past players and their stats, but just about things in general. I don't think you have to play the game at a high level to love and have knowledge about baseball but getting all A's in computer sciences or applied mathematics should only be 1 part of hiring someone for a job in analytics or player development.

R-E-L-A-X

According to bWAR Grandal has never had a 4 WAR season so I looked him up on fangraphs and he has had 5 seasons of 4+ fWAR .Why the big difference between the 2 in previous years IDK but they both had him at 3.7 last year so, yes, he's capable of it considering the low amount of games played but can he hold up for enough games ? Conforto and Segura aren't even on the team so until we actually see what new players we get I'll skip them as you probably should have. I could have just as easily stuck up for the core . As I said they are full of potential but the board is full of people praising the core and not wanting to trade prospects. And the guys who never give the Sox the benefit of the doubt like @Look at Ray Ray Run, @Jack Parkman , @South Side Hit Men @caulfield12 @Thad Bosley all get attacked for their "style" of posting. Right now all we got is injury after injury and potential and Jerry running the show. Oooof. Hell I've had run ins with most of those guys in my more optimistic days. I kind of vacillate between wearing the tinted rose glasses and looking at the whole forest. I can exchange ideas and thoughts opposing @Chicago White Sox and @fathom points of view because we show each other mutual respect. It's very difficult trying to be objective around here because as Sox fans we are full of hopes and dreams . No one wants their hopes and dreams crushed by realists, objectivity and pessimism. When your hopes and dreams get in the way of your objectivity and love of potential you get mass delusions like everyone opining that Eloy should only be a DH when he comes back from injury . No one wanted to hear anyone tell them otherwise, that Eloy was going to be back in LF. Now Vaughn is expected to get the same PA's this year he got last year and not traded by the true believers . Now a few more people see he doesn't fit in on the current team and probably should be back in the minors like Dan Szymborski of Fangraphs recently suggested.Of course we can cling to his potential and HOPE he comes out guns blazing and never stops . @Lillian has been talking about getting more LH for years and she took abuse for it. Now all of a sudden it has become fashionable and the majority now want it so she's no longer the lone wolf in the crowd everyone can poke fun at. I had the gall to suggest Vaughn not get so much playing time and his fielding was too small a sample size to be trusted and I got roasted for it . The core best pick up the pace and stop getting injured if everyone wants to be all jolly instead of at each others throats when the vocal majority shout down and mock the "pessimists".

Of course he is . I know everybody hates the Astros but Springer 5.0, Correa 6.7 , Altuve 7.7, Bregman 4.0, Reddick 4.5, Marwin Gonzalez 3.9 . That's 6 position players with basically 4 and above bWAR which was a good combo of hitting and fielding from most of those guys. 31.8 bWar total from 6 guys. Ok so the Sox got Robert ,Anderson and Moncada who can give you that. They lost their best starting pitcher and no one seems to want him back. Age is a concern in the rotation be it the older guys or the younger guys fulfilling their promise. Lots of DH types who can't field so they aren't going to rack up WAR. Conforto is still a $100M dream capable of that kind of WAR but i wouldn't pencil him in to get it or even to acquire him. Robert is just 1 guy and outside of Moncada and Anderson the rest area bunch of bad fielders . Grandal , Abreu arent getting any younger.

The core needs to prove they are a core and start fulfilling their promise then. Right now we need a major fluffer to jump start the core. Moncada for MVP and then he can't hit for a higher slugging than Madrigal but woo he's fields so good and gets so many walks and Madrigal sucks and there goes that draft pick for nothing. How you even believe in another 6 years of "the core" is beyond me. All I keep hearing is Robert can patrol the whole outfield ! Moncada will be an MVP. Kopech will be great. Eloy will be a hitting monster. It better happen damn soon because the stans for the team keep getting their way and Madgrigal was traded and yay we still have Vaughn , Kopech and Crochet and they were too valuable to offer for Burnes. Let's all blame Covid for not spending last off season which created the need for Kimbrel. Next year it will be the lockout the lockout, Cohen Cohen ! The year after that it will be the core is too expensive now and we have no starting pitching. And worst of all Jerry is in charge of it all.

The problem is what moves ? What FA or 2 or 3 that we can realistically expect the Sox to pay the most for the fits in the LH hitter upgrade we thought was a possibility . Conforto , then who Rodon ? Can we expect to be in on Ray ? Remember there's still a bunch of teams going to all be scrambling should the lockout last all winter. Then we miss out on those FA agents and what ? Then we trade Vaughn, trade Eloy, trade Sheets trade every and any promising minor league player we have left ? There's still the Kimbrel thing to take care of. Some here seemed shocked people are "freaking out" when we all heard the Sox were going to be aggressive and significantly add to payroll. Everybody stans for the team and whips us into a frenzy, then nothing. It's basically been now or never meaning hello lockout, goodbye moves until it's over? It's a lot to swallow and there's tomorrow to do something and then nothing except a lockout giving us all time to steam even more . I'm not freaking out but I sure am disappointed now as I'm sure you are too.