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This what I have been struggling with as well. It's all gung ho to win the division in 2020 and with a boatload of unproven youth and DH types.

Yep then we are left wondering what's the plan ? Sox clearly wanted more LH's then tun around and trade them ? SOunds more like flying by the seat of your pants than a plan.

This is pretty much how I feel . I'm not going to be upset if somehow they sign Castellanos but it would be a puzzling move after Mazara. Of course still a long way to go in the off season so a lot can change so I won't judge it in a vacuum until we see what else happens this off season. Talent is talent and can always be moved. I also agree about your EE comments.

I am as excited as anyone else about Robert. The ceiling is so high but I'd feel a lot better about his natural talent if he could show some restraint on pitch selection, His aggressiveness will surely be exploited in MLB. His talent has taken him far but it was only one great year where he flew through 3 levels. His mind will take him the extra step into superstardom. Eloy found that out after slider after slider after slider with a lot more experience and time doing well in the minors than Robert.

Pence looked done after 2018 with the Giants but then looked great with the Rangers in 2019 so who the heck knows what to expect from him in 2020, He only played 24 games in the field , 16 in LF and 8 in RF the other 46 he was DH. So again him on D is a risk . I'm actually much more concerned with adding to the bullpen. Leury is probably fine as a platoon bat in RF as his splits against lefties were also pretty good and he brings much more as a fielder than Pence. Edit : For more perspective on Pence here are a few links to see how he rebounded with the Rangers after giving a farewell speech to the Giants. https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/giants/how-hunter-pence-bounced-back-difficult-end-giants-career this is a 22 minute documentary

No it's not vastly overstated I think it was sports illustrated that quoted him as saying he never took getting in shape seriously until he had to play for a new contract. There were also a lot of Dodgers who were sick of his me only attitude , ignoring coaches on defensive positioning, not hitting cut off men . If anything it's not stated often enough.

I've been talking up Hunter Pence but if you want good D not sure he's a good choice. But if you want offense his splits were outstanding last year against lefties. It's just a matter of if you can really believe at his age he's good for another excellent year for around 300 AB's. Also hit righties fairly well. I'd be happier spending EE money on the BP orw hoever else the Sox deem as a contributor in the infield or OF.

That knack worked in 2019 but in 2018 it was a disaster for them.

Odds are you aren't winning the division with or without Collins . They can also win it with him and without EE. Everything still depends on performances of Kopech , Robert, Madrigal, Cease Collins as a whole. My whole point not just the bolded. And I'd feel even better if we get a better bullpen. If we want depth ,relying on Marshall and Cordero isn't great either along with everything else.

Well sure if you take that one sentence out of context from a lengthy post where i also said this before I said that" I understand both Robert and Madrigal can provide good play on both defense offense and the bases and Collins may be more of an offensive player." The point was in case you only read that one sentence is that if you expect to win the division with untested youth many of whom will miss a lot of combined games due to injury and the extra year of control you might as well also let Collins play because the BATS only are similar and EE is also just a more expensive and more proven bat.

I already said that Robert and Madrigal provide much more than just the bat in my initial post . EE is just a bat and mostly so will Collins be. I am not comparing anything but the bat to Robert . To compare them as total players of course Robert is way better. I am not advocating a replacement for Robert, Madrigal. Kopech or Cease so don't try to turn this into me comparing Collins to Robert. The potential bats are similar not total offensive and defensive worth.

If you take base running out of the equation and use just offensive numbers why would you say that ? Robert is much less experienced at the higher levels than Collins and comparing their offensive numbers at AAA there isn't much difference except Collins OBP was greater. That's the only thing you have to go on . If the small sample size of Collins initial struggles is that much of an influence there's nothing anyone can say to sway that 99 % thought process.

I understand wanting EE. Most are perfecrly willing to roll with Robert and Madrigal but not Collins. I understand both Robert and Madrigal can provide good play on both defense offense and the bases and Collins may be more of an offensive player. But if everyone is using the excuse of NEEDing to compete next year how is there much difference between rolling with 3 instead of 2 rookies in the lineup ? Are we also not going to use Kopech ? Offensively Collins could add just as much as Robert. Both have big time power. Collins gets on base much better. What if Robert had come up and struggled as much as Collins ? After his disastrous 1st call up last year Collins went back down in July and proceeded to absolutely destroy AAA . About 150 AB's .340 batting average . .700+ Slg and 1.200 OPS . Just crazy good numbers .He then got called up again and did much better especially right near the end of the season; I just don't think the argument for needing to attempt to win the division holds any water when guys like Kopech Robert and Madrigal will miss many games combined before they are brought up and will all certainly have struggles similar to what Collins had. We keep hearing arguments from many learned Sox fans that the difference between Robert and Madrigal and Kopech missing games to get the extra years of control probably won't hurt the Sox in the quest for the division. So why is Collins all of a sudden the odd man out ? Is the perceived difference between Collins and EE so great or so different than the games Kopech, Robert and Madrigal will miss and the games where they will struggle ? Let the young team grow together next year. Odds are you aren't winning the division with or without Collins . They can also win it with him and without EE. Everything still depends on performances of Kopech , Robert, Madrigal, Cease Collins as a whole.

I've been liking your arguments for Collins . I only question that you accepted the hit tool argument. Yes if we look back on his early development the hit tool along with the K's and lack of reliable info on his progress of catching skills was making a lot of people nervous. There also isn't a large sample size to go with making an argument for a much improved hit tool. However in the last stage of his development at AAA with 367 PA's he hit 282. ( his highest ever batting avg.) ,403 OBP which is elite , .548 SLG.. and .961 OPS both high marks for his MiLB career. in August after he was send back down in 99 PA's he hit .338 .455 OBP and .763 SLG and 1.217 OPS . As crazy as these numbers are they might be even better if we count the 12 games in July after he was send down because his BA in those games was .348 but I can't find a way to add up the total s unless I do it myself which I'm not doing. So if there is bias because of his early career we can use the most recent bias ( which really should count the most) to build a case that his hit tool is much improved.Sox need to hold onto him at all costs.

I don't want EE to DH . I want Collins which is why I like Pence.

Have you checked his splits against lefties last year ? They were great like 1.000 OPS great and high OBP and also can hit righties in case of injury to Mazara. 18 HRs in less than 300 Ab's. EE cant replace anyone in the field.

I like this very much

No to EE yes to HP.Less DH more baseball player.

Check out Hunter Pence's splits against lefties. Over1.000 OPS . 18 HR's total in less than 300 AB's High OBP and OPS+. Hits righties well too. No idea about his defense or arm in RF and he is old but can't argue with his numbers as a platoon with Mazara. The amount he'd play against lefties seem perfect for his numbers and age and he can be another DH option. Really no reason the spend extra on a DH.

This is a name I never see mentioned, Hunter Pence. Great splits against lefties. Getting a bit long in the tooth and not a good fielder but in limited time last year accumulated a decent WAR. 126 OPS+ Hit RH 's good too and adds another DH option too. Won't need a another DH with him.

or Brock Holt who can also play RF but he's a lefty so not really a platoon guy with Mazara. He actually plays every infield position and plays LF and RF so everything but C and CF. But he sucks against lefties but great and high OBP against righties. Not much power either. Real solid player though

A few posts did not age well but I like this one the best.

You hate Collins because he can't catch . You've been beating that drum for a while.

Sox fans aren't the only ones . I've heard it on MLBN maybe from Plesac or Smoltz. And I guaranteed someone on the MLBN will say it again if there's anyone there in the next few days considering most of the regular guys are morethan likely already off for the holiday.

Nah it's just that Holt is a proven commodity, but for a small sample size Medick did great and shows more HR power than Madrigal ever will.