CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 25, 2018 -> 01:51 PM) And to take it one step further, you’d be patching the tire with the limited amount of supplies left you have in your tool box. You could wait to fix it when you have more options available to you, or you could try and fix it now and hope to get lucky and it works. It just is not nessesary right now I do love the analogy . Kudos to Balta. Or you can also look at it this way: You can use the cheap stuff in the tool box that will plug the hole just fine but maybe not for as long as you would like and use the more expensive stuff you pick up later to plug the big holes that may be more of a detriment to your tire (pitching) . I really do expect starting and relief pitching to be bigger holes. The starting staff will be very young and like we have seen in Rodon maybe injuries pop up. It's just inevitable one of Kopech, Giolito, Lopez Hansen Dunning Fulmer Cease get a major elbow or shoulder problem. It already happened to Burdi. And even if only one gets an injury we still have to anticipate some of them won't live up to expectations. Some will be mediocre, some bad, some useless, some may take longer to find their groove than others. I know Balta has great hopes for the 2020 team but predicting world Series champions is like predicting earthquakes. Yea the Cubs and Astros have made it seem easy to our fan base but we might not get so lucky. Sure hope we do that's for sure but I don't expect smooth sailing.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 23, 2018 -> 07:07 AM) Come on, you can’t be seriously telling me it’s about money when almost every post in this entire thread you say you prefer a “left handed, middle of the order, power bat”. I mean goddamn, don’t try and change your position to make it look like you are hoping the Sox are financially more responsible when they will have a bottom of the barrel payroll when it is time to spend on Machado You are being needlessly harsh bringing up Grady Sizemore. The whole argument from Lillian and others is that a long term high AAV contract will hurt future payroll considerations if the Sox want sustainable success and Moustakas may be a good fit in that 3rd base may be a harder hole to fill than others and also is a LH power bat which we also are in need of. He may also come discounted. Anyone who doesn't think a mega contract hurts roster construction and crippled other moves hasn't been paying attention. W all know the move is risky (not a crippling risk) but so are all the arguments I see thinking the Sox won't need to add a starting pitcher or a top bullpen arm or 2 and everything we need will come from the system or we can afford a mega contract. The rebuild has a slim to none chance of building a WS winner in the next 8 years or so because that's just how things go. The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

There's this for those expecting tanking for picks to work https://thejunkballdaily.com/2018/01/29/tan...eball-worth-it/

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 09:25 AM) It would be a win-later move to act now and get a multiyear deal done for someone at low prices in later years of the deal. Provided the guy is not old. Moustakas may not be that guy though. I dont know that anyone who's left is. Not only is there Machado , Donaldson next year but Arenado and Anthony Rendon the following year. No one ever brings up Rendon but I remember wanting the Sox to trade for him years ago and he is very good .

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 09:14 AM) I'm with Jack Parkman. If you only followed baseball media rumors in a vacuum without knowing team moves you would think the White Sox this winter were aggressively trying to upgrade their position players and pitching. If you only followed the white sox transaction log you would think the white sox have no interest in big moves this year and are just going to let players find themselves. I am not going to get tricked by the former. Hahn isn't going to say "we are not signing anyone even if it makes sense", why would he, he could also be establishing a good relationship with an agent by fomenting rumors for Moustakas, but everything the sox have done this offseason has not indicated they are going to take a bigger player like this. This is where I am . I think the Sox want one more good draft and to get a longer look at the boys on the bubble at the ML level. Also see how Burger, Rutherford, Robert basically the whole minor league system goes this year. There's just too much evaluating left to do before making moves.

Farquhar sounds like a future pitching coach.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 08:26 AM) The problem is, guys if they are as great as we hope, start to become more expensive in a couple of seasons, and they have to keep an eye out for that. Exactly. Since the Sox keep talking about sustaining success future payroll has to be a consideration and 1 guy making $30+ AAV is going to become a problem. The Sox aren't the Yanks, Dodgers .Red Sox etc. Even the most optimistic of us regarding the rebuild have to know there are going to be injuries, failed prospects and a very young group of starting pitchers who will be inconsistent or never as good as we might hope. One elite starting pitcher an elite position player and one elite reliever will add a ton of money to payroll . Look at how the Cubs signed Lester, Heyward and then Chapman . The Yankees just picked up a decent chunk of Stanton's contract and traded for Kahnle and Robertson . Astros traded for Verlander and put $100M into signing Reddick and Gurriel . There's no such thing as too much talent and if it can come at a discount now (Boras be damned) it should be a consideration. Maybe waiting till the last minute and trading or supplementing the roster when its more apparent where the holes are is the way to go but there will be a premium in trades and FA money to pay when you wait .

QUOTE (KnightsOnMintSt @ Feb 21, 2018 -> 07:11 AM) I am on the side that I would like the White Sox to sign Moustakas. He fills a need, and I feel like if you can get him around 5yr 80mil, the Sox should hop on that. I also dont think a Moustakas signing means that we're out on Machado. We could easily move Moose to 1st or DH, or even slide Machado over to SS, if we were to sign him. White Sox have a lot of money and a lot of options. If Moose could get anyone to give him 5/80 he'd jump on that now. I think he's been seeing some Jay Bruce type contracts offer . Bruce signed for 3 yrs/$39M. Look at what Todd Frazier signed for 2/17M and everybody loves Todd Frazier's attitude. Most of the teams that needed a 3rd basemen heard his early asking price and moved on to other options. Boras usually ends up finding one taker but this time he's going to have a rough go of it. The longer Moose waits the worse the offers are going to get. Right now I'd be surprised if he lands anything beyond 4/50.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 20, 2018 -> 08:38 PM) The crazy thing is imagining a contract 3x the biggest the Sox have ever offered before, and well over doubling the $100 million mark. I know, Abreu, Albert Belle, Luis Robert, Dunn, Robertson, etc. Guess it’s like Doubting Thomas here, we have to actually see it first to believe it. We usually give that money to our own guys, like Buehrle/Konerko/Danks/Ordonez. It really feels like the best route to signing one of the biggest names is them coming off an injury (see Dye, Thome, Quentin, Eaton) and signing at a discount (which probably means they won’t want the long term deal). There are a lot of sub topics that come up when talking about Moose. There's Donaldson 's age when he becomes a free agent. There's the potential cost and issue of a really big name free agent . Can the Sox really afford that kind of contract? Hell in the past we talked about an Adam Dunn type contract crippling them financially. There's does Moose really fit the window of contention and is he even a good enough player now and in the future even being one of the younger free agents. The saber guys don't like him and the more traditional of us see a pretty useful guy filling a glaring position of need There's those who look at lineup construction, handedness, brings World Series experience , HR's , batting average , OPS and slugging vs. OBP and defense , WAR. There's how to proceed in the market that MAY be throwing you some bones vs. the reality of actually getting free agents that will command great attention and dollars. As for me I anticipate some holes will be very difficult to fill and the money put to best use is NOT to sign someone to a mega deal. Love Yolmer's defense and versatility but he'd have to shock us all with a big uptick in power for me to like him at 3B. I've argued in the past about Moose in the other threads but it's not like I think he's a great fit just think he's pluggigng a few holes positionally and in the lineup where I anticipate problems going forward. If you think the competition will be fierce for Machado, Donaldson Arenado Harper etc just wait til you try to get top notch relief help where not only are you dealing with the super rich clubs but now have to deal with everyone in contention and the fast rising cost of elite relievers.

If ABreu's weight loss affects him like Avi's did we'll have an MVP on our hands.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 19, 2018 -> 04:28 PM) VIDEO: Michael Kopech vs. Jose Abreu If you took the video yourself nice job otherwise a waste of a view with Abreu just looking at 2 pitches.

So no one is expecting a Tyler Clippard re sign ?

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Feb 14, 2018 -> 12:44 AM) Jones really is our final big trading chip. The injury history will scare people, but he is REALLY f***ING GOOD. Considering his contract, I really do think he could bring back a top 100 guy + others. Or maybe something like Jones to the Nationals for LHP Seth Romero (#5 prospect) and SS/3B Yasel Antuna (#8 prospect). Pretty wishful thinking but thats OK with me. We got Rutherford, Clarkin, Polo, Clippard from the Yanks for 2 pretty good relievers without much injury histoy and Frazier, Not really expecting much of anything for him .

QUOTE (GenericUserName @ Feb 18, 2018 -> 08:07 PM) Because he is coming off of a bad second half. so not only would they have to give up something to get him, they would also have to roster him in hopes he rebounds instead of having whoever the first person off was and that opportunity cost might not be worth it. We can feasibly acquire him for cheap because he was DFA'd so the Rays lost a ton of leverage, and we can then trade him later if he does good so a team acquiring him isn't taking as much of a risk on his performance. This is almost a perfect buy low-sell high opportunity. Also injuries create openings that don't. exist now.

Howling at the moon

QUOTE (Lillian @ Feb 14, 2018 -> 11:29 AM) His road stats, from last year, are even more impressive. 24 HR, in 74 games, suggests that he might be very productive in our ballpark. There's also Logan Morrison. He's LH primarily DH /!b and if you like road splits his were insane . Over a 1.000 OPS. He also knows how to take a walk which not a lot of Sox know how to do besides Moncada..

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2018 -> 11:18 AM) Jon Heyman‏Verified account @JonHeyman 6m6 minutes ago andrew cashner agrees with orioles. 16M, 2 years. Hey did you miss one or is it not official yet. Nunez linked with Red Sox.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Feb 14, 2018 -> 10:18 AM) Mike Moustakas isn't very good and the Sox won't be interested in forfeiting a top 45 draft pick and $2 million in draft bonus pool space to sign him to play for a non-contender. It just doesn't make any sense at this point. I know the Sox won't sign him but it's more for the draft pick and bonus money than him not being very good. I realize I am often stuck in the past because when you saw a .275 batting average 38 HRs 835 OPS . 521 Slg that always implied someone was pretty good. To see him constantly disparaged for his OBP and other deficiencies while he's made 2 All Stars teams in the past 3 years is sort of strange. If he's not considered good then I would like to take a poll of Sox fans and ask them if they would take his 2017 numbers at 3rd base when they are contending. Yea I know last year might be an outlier but he is in the old school prime of his career and if he's not good then some of the new things that we use to tell if a player is good or not devalue too many things. I truly love defense and his isn't that good I can give you that but if anyone thinks Yolmers D makes up for the fact he isn't a LH middle of the order bat like Moustakas then defense and OBP is extremely over rated in todays game and the reason why power hitter have been devalued also in todays game. . Exhibit A Jason Heyward. I'll take his offense and passable D at 3rd every time.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 03:52 PM) Correct. At best, not holding out hope for much success if he does pitch again Take it for what it's worth but this from CSN Chicago yesterday : Reliever Nate Jones has almost become a forgotten man with the White Sox. Tommy John surgery, back surgery and elbow surgery since 2014 will do that. But he’s already in camp, feeling 100 percent, and when asked if he’ll be ready for Opening Day he said, “Absolutely.”

QUOTE (Lillian @ Feb 14, 2018 -> 09:29 AM) You guys know me, so you won't be surprised by my question: Is there a left handed, middle of the order bat, somewhere in this discussion for a big free agent acquisition? Why not wait for Harper? He would fulfill that wish. There's Mike Moustakas. He hit 38 bombs last year but his OBP and only average defense drag down his WAR.I anticipate a huge hole needing to be filled when the Sox can't outbid everyone of Machado, Donaldson or Arenado and I'm not sure Donaldson would be a good idea at his age or if Machado will decide not to be a SS. Moustakas would fill that LH power void and fill that huge hole at 3rd base. Many here don't like him since we are still supposedly 2 years away from 2020 but even then he will be 31 , Donaldson 34. I have seen people saying Donaldson will age well while but I don't see how anyone can derive that while at the same time dismissing Moustakas. Miore than likely the Sox won't sign Moose and probably take their chances on Yolmer, Davidson, Burger or Machado and Arenado but those options seem far fetched in my mind . I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell the Sox outbid everyone for the huge names out there and unless Davidson can show us way more than he has so far or Yolmer can hit 25 bombs a year 3rd base will be a glaring hole.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 10:08 AM) There's nothing wrong with signing a free agent this off-season if it's the right fit. Hell, Wellington Castillo is the perfect example of that and made a ton of sense as a short-term transition option to Collins/Zavala. I just don't think locking in an average at best 3B like Moustakas makes a lot of sense right now. Plan A for 3B should Manny Machado next off-season. Plan B could be Josh Donaldson based on the price/years. Plan C could be Yolmer for a year and then a run Arenado. If you can't land any of those impact free agents, then trade for or sign someone on a shorter-term deal and hope Burger is a fast mover. Point is there are too many attractive alternatives over the next couple of off-seasons to lock in a passable one today. And quite frankly, I'm not sure Moustakas would be that much of an upgrade of Sanchez. The one guy I'd still be open to signing right now is JDM. He's a legit difference maker with the bat and can instantly change the complexion of our lineup. If I can get him at an affordable price, I'm willing to make that move now. At least we agree on JDM but it wasn't long ago most of the board thought Yolmer was at best a utility guy and many still hold that opinion. Moustakas has been an All Star 2 of the last 3 years and the one year he didn't make it he was injured.Is that really average AT BEST or are we looking at his WAR to determine that ? With all the arguments against signing aging vets what makes Donaldson so attractive? He will be in age 33 season for the 2019 season . Donaldson had his MVP season at 29 . Sure Yolmer could field the position well but he never will be a middle of the order bat and counting on Burger to be a fast developer and sticking at 3rd base isn't a good plan either. I don't want to sound too high on Moustaskas because he surely has his warts but again LH power middle of the order bats haven't exactly grown on trees for the Sox. If plan A is Machado prepare to be disappointed if he is truly serious about sticking at SS and with the big boys trying to make room for the impact free agents. I'm anticipating a big hole at 3rd base because all your plans leave a lot to be desired and I'd rather take my chances on Moustakas if the price/years are right this year. If JDM is a legit difference maker and can change the complexion of your lineup then adding another 35 HR guy like Moustaskas can upgrade legit to contender maybe by 2019 instead of 2020.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 10:03 AM) Unless you've got some insider information no one else knows, this isn't true. Arenado is still scheduled to be a free agent after the 2019 season, and I think the Sox will get one of he or Machado. It isn't true that he COULD (meaning it's possible) isn't true? All I suggested was it's possible and I don't need insider info for that. You really think the Sox get Arenado or Machado ? I think the odds are very long that happens. We shall see.

QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 09:37 AM) That also may be why we disagree a bit, I don't think I'd want the Sox to sign either guy if they were right in the middle of their competitive window. Moose and his career .305 OBP scares the hell out of me. I like JD Martinez, but the huge "contract year" really scares the hell out of me. But if the price was right I would understand it. See first it was the has to make sense and fit the timeline and now its things about the players scare the hell out of you. We are putting up these boundaries that only leave the option of a perfect rebuild and that scares me and I don't like it much is where I'm at.The Sox lack of success in position player development and all the other things that I already mentioned multiple times scares me a lot more than getting established All Star players when they are readily available in a down market and the payroll can easily afford them. It's a perfect opportunity . Will it be a risk ? Sure it will be but expecting a clockwork rebuild in my eyes is a way bigger risk.

QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 08:59 AM) Again, we don't really disagree in principle. The issue I have is specifically this off-season. You want to plug in some holes now. OK, I can see the merit behind that. Who are the players? I just don't see many that make sense. I'm not trying to say "STICK TO THE PLAN AT ALL COSTS". If something makes sense, they should do it. I just don't see it with the group of players that are out there right now and how they line up with the Sox timeline. I think we are thinking along the same lines and you didn't say perfect fit but you are definitely implying it with "if something makes sense" and "how they line up with the Sox timeline" . I mentioned another starting pitcher , JD Martinez and Moustakas as possible fits in positions the Sox might have needs to hedge their bets against prospect or signing free agent disasters. I know they won't be cheap but I think we have to understand that maybe you can get those 2 for less years and approximately the same cost as you would pay for someone like Machado, Arenado or Harper who we're not going to have much of a shot at anyway. I really do understand that playing who we have now still might be the most prudent course of action but I also think in a down market you might have to pounce if opportunities present themselves and take your chances that guys are Martinez and Moustakas are good enough to get some productive years in at the beginning of that competitive window just as the Sox will be taking chances that a 4 year rebuild is not disrupted by JR dying, a players strike, injuries. inability to sign key free agents and bad player development.

QUOTE (Tony @ Feb 13, 2018 -> 08:19 AM) I never even mentioned the "perfect fit". I don't think there is ever really a true "perfect fit" type player, too many variables at play. Again, I understand your idea but if the players you want to sign don't really exist in this market then the argument doesn't hold much water, I guess that's my point. I see posters say "I want ownership to spend money! This is ridiculous!" and when you ask what players would fit in the Sox plan......they go dark. And to your last part, in the end money talks. If the Sox want their guys, offer the most money. That usually ends up well. I know you didn't say perfect fit but that seems to be the thinking now considering the window of competitiveness is projected to be 2020 and beyond. To me it's a real concern that so many things can turn a rebuild projected to last 4 years into chaos. JR dies, a player strike an arm injury to Kopech, Eloy or Moncada not being the beasts they are projected to be , recent draftees not developing etc. Also the idea that signing guys now don't fit that mythical window sort of make me cringe. There is only one World Series winner every year and many many players best years are wasted on those teams that don't win it. Yes offering the most money usually works especially if you are the Yankees or Dodgers, teams with winning traditions. This is the White Sox we are talking about. Outbidding teams that are already gearing up for impending free agents is going to be a major crap shoot and one I don't expect the Sox to win,not because I don't think the Sox will be willing to spend but because it's just not feasible to think that it will go well for the Sox. Plan B has to be in the works now. Counting on no injuries, offering the most money for free agents and current prospects to be what we wish them to be all coming together perfectly doesn't hold much water either.