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Odor rounded second on a base hit . Bautista threw behind him and he got back safely but his foot kind of recoiled back off the base as tag was being applied. Looked out but called safe and call not overturned. Then a single scores him in the top of the 14th. Would've been the 3rd out . Now DeSheilds gets an infield hit to score another run and it's 6-4 Texas . Jays in deep trouble.

The story has now made it to MLB Network. Heidi Watney reported it on Intentional Talk.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:04 PM) Dirty ass slide by gregarious So that slide by Gregorius wasn't very gregarious ?

Colby Rasmus turned out to be a good investment for the Astros. I seem to remember a a lot of Soxtalkers didn't want him every time I brought him up last off season. He production this year was about what many thought LaRoche should have done. Take young over old and AL experience over NL and less years and less AAV next time Sox. The difference between the 2 was LaRoche's OBP was way higher and he is a good Christian man as opposed to Rasmus' rep as a problem child and low OBP in 2014 Rasmus put up a 2.8 WAR vs, LaRoche's -1.4 a difference of 4.2 WAR in 2015.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 11:33 AM) Yeah, but for every Nick Hostetler or Marco Paddy, there's still KW or Buddy Bell to cancel all of that out. The biggest impact talent of the early bunch, Adolfo, isn't on a pace to even make a dent in the majors (assuming injuries or non-performance don't get him) before the new tv contract negotiations in 2019. They also have stayed within the parameters on intl. signings, unlike many of the big market clubs like the Cubs, Red Sox and Dodgers who have been scooping up the most talent. Finally, Courtney Hawkins and Tyler Danish sank quite a bit as prospects. That has hurt, as well. This is something I pointed out in another post in regards to the Sox staying within the league rules for international talent. Management has only shown that they are good at mitigating risk and turning a profit. This is what I call the "middling approach" , never doing much of anything besides going after middling talent whether it's on the field talent or management or scouting talent. This kind of approach will never allow the Sox to compete for the high priced ,young international talent because they play within the rules set up by the league and won't risk spending the money on the talent that other teams are willing to do. Risk means possible chaos to the bottom line and that's just not JR's way of doing business. Call it what you will but it's always the safe approach no matter what his mouthpieces say about building a consistent winner. His approach safeguards profits .

QUOTE (raBBit @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 09:59 AM) Thompson hasn't won any job but he's certainly put himself ahead of Avi Garcia in RF. Whether the team wants to retool or rebuild, I can't see any scenario where the FO can argue that Avi is a better fit than Thompson. People say I am a Thompson hater but I think he's better than Avi across the board. Thompson's contact rate, walk rate and offensive success will not translate over to next year but he can certainly make a positive impact to the team. I don't think Garcia can. My fear is we come back with Melky/Eaton/Avi/Thompson/LaRoche for the three outfield spots and DH. If the team wants to improve they need to move forward from either Avi or Cabrera. Avi is just a lot easier to cut bait from because he doesn't provide any value other than the outside chance he changes his swing/approach and improves his terrible defense over one winter. He's essentially free. Cut the cord... I worry about him becoming the next Beckham/Viciedo. The fact of the matter is the Sox need to improve at 3B, SS, C and OF/DH. 3B is the must and C/SS are going to be really tough. The team needs to get creative at the OF/DH spot and infuse either/both offense or defense there. I hate pointing to the Cubs for a good example of what to do but look at them bringing in Coghlan and Fowler over the past two seasons. These are very low cost acquisitions that have given them plus contributors and flexibility. Either one of those guys would be one of the best three offensive players on the Sox. The Sox need to start converting on their supplementary pieces. I feel bad for Avi. When he was hitting fairly well his approach was to RF but the Sox weren't getting any power from him so it seems he changed his approach in the 2nd half and tried to pull more judging by the more frequent ground outs to 3rd and SS (eye test no stats to back this up).Now he's just all kinds of screwed up. Problem is he just swung at a lot of crap out of the zone. Until he learns the zone neither approach will work. He will continue to be exploited by pitchers . If he can't recognize pitches he is just another guy with talent and potential that will be wasted.

Another thing that bothers me is it seems like the good CFer's generally have higher defensive value than corner OFer's. Again maybe it's something I see rather than a fact. But a CFer can run gap to gap at full speed while corner OFer's must temper their approach to balls hit down the line because of the chance of colliding with walls. This tempered approach is necessary unless you have no regard for your body yet corner OF's can't get those ridiculously high defensive ratings as much as CFer's do. Alex Gordon was about the highest you'll see in 2014 for a corner. Heyward in 2012, 2014 and 2015 was pretty high also. When someone like Trout moves from CF to a corner doesn't it seem like their defensive rating always goes down yet they are the same player with the same speed and abilities. I know being strong up the middle is essential in baseball like it's always been so a truly gifted defensive CFer has more inherent value built into the position just like SS does. Again playing a corner means you can't run as fast or must slow down when approaching walls but is that something that is taken into consideration ?

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:53 AM) was that when he did the stirring the pot gesture? that was pretty funny. Yes that was the the one on Mothers Day when he hit a single to drive in the winning run. The one on Fathers day was a walk off HR.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 11:45 AM) FYI - the 32 number isn't "defensive WAR," it's "Defensive runs" which is an input into WAR. The actual number changes year to year, but usually roughly 10 runs = 1 WAR. So, essentially, 3 of Kiermaier's 5 WAR came from his glove. Hmm doesn't seem like his offensive numbers are worth 2.5 WAR to me at all. Under .300 OBP , 98 wRC . And sorry once again if the advanced stats confuse me and I don't understand evrything I am looking at. But to me it looks like just about all of his WAR came from defense.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Oct 2, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) After Branden Smith gave him that shoulder to his head in the first preseason game, he really wasn't the same. He played tentative. I am actually ok with this. Hopefully it's a bit of a wake up call but we'll see what happens when Bickell clears. They should of bought out Bickell in June, but glad he's gone. Thank you voice of reason. I watched all the preseason games and he was barely on the ice and if he was he was barely noticeable. Dano will be a big part of the Hawks this year. I just think he's hurt and the Hawks can't afford a guy on the roster now who might not be ready to play at full speed. Also Panarin is one slick little dude. He's got some Kane-like skills. Just hope he learns quickly that those fancy moves will get you benched if you turn over the puck too much.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:37 AM) I don't think there is any situation where a winning profit would drive margins down. Revenue goes up with a competitive product year in and year out. If the Sox would have made the playoffs in 2006 and were competitive in 2007 and 2008 still played out like it did, the culture would be completely different. Oh I don't know about that . Let's say the Sox decide they wanted top scouts and spent big in international free agency then decided to give a few big name players big contracts . Top organizational people and top players would equal top dollar in an effort to make that long term success a reality. But I think Reinsdorf has made it an art form to just play the middling game using middling people and middling players to ensure profit but that also means not winning in any consistence manner. If the Sox tried using top people at top dollar and it all blew up on them it might wreck profits for years and that's why they never take the risk. Reinsdorf is an expert at risk management.

Well back on topic since not too many can post about good moments but the Beckham walk offs on Mothers and Fathers day was very unique and fun.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 06:53 AM) The White Sox have a long term sweetheart lease and have been one of the most profitable teams in baseball the last 25 years. THEY AREN'T GOING TO MOVE. So if the profits are true that begs the question . Is ownership in it for the money or would it anger them to have a winning product but the profit margin goes down ?

QUOTE (bmags @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 08:02 AM) Cali what an awesome observation. I'm excited to see where this goes. Thanks .It just seemed odd to me that Kevin Keirmaier gets a 32.0 defensive WAR this year which is ridiculously high and overall is a 5.5 WAR player but realistically is he that same WAR playing CF in the Cell because much of his value is defensively.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:50 AM) It's an interesting question -- I have no idea if advanced defensive stats are park-adjusted. That's why advanced metrics make me crazy. As a fan you knew exactly mathematically how to do batting average , OBP , slugging percentage because its all simple math that reveals part of a picture but not all of it. Some of these new metrics you have no idea what went into devising them and just how full of flaws they might be. And on the offensive side what gets rated higher ? Does a walk with the bases loaded contribute as much to WAR and other offensive advanced metrics as a single that drives in 2 runs with the bases loaded ?

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:43 AM) He was -1.6 in 2014 and -8.8 in 2015. He is -21.2 for his career which includes what has to be a fluky -11.2 in just 66 games with the D-Backs in 2013. Sorry my bad you are right old bad eyes but the point remains he's still not in the positive area.I will delete or edit those posts.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:28 AM) Different defensive systems measured him differently last year; he had one of the widest gaps between his UZR and DRS of any player, maybe the widest IIRC. Up to you which one you want to believe. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That's pretty much my point . You've got all these supposedly "right" new ways to measure things yet there are huge discrepancies thereby rendering defensive metrics fairly unreliable unless an OF is so good or so bad they all pretty much end up with the same conclusion. But most OF's fall somewhere in between so how reliable is any measuring stick of the majority of OF'ers ?

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:24 AM) http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&sort=24,d Not that many, but I don't think it's because of the ballpark. That's a fairly bold claim and the Cell's outfield is about as standard as they come. I know somebody before (I think it was you) has pointed out that the shape of the fences makes it difficult to rob homers, and while that may be true, it wouldn't swing the numbers that much. And the difference between Avi and Eaton is that Eaton has put up a successful defensive season in the past. Avi has only ever massacred the outfield. But the OF gaps are considered small are they not ? I can't back it up but maybe those good OF's get good ratings because they play in more spacious outfields covering more ground . Just something to think about . It would be interesting to see Trayce be a full time player next year just to see what that Fangraphs defensive WAR might be.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:22 AM) Brian Anderson had some amazing defensive metrics IIRC. Ok again I'll use Fangraphs which Eminor likes to use to point out how bad Avi is . Brian Anderson only played semi regularly in 2006 and did have a defensive WAR rating of 7.5 which might be the highest you can find for any Sox OF ever in the Cell . The rest of his career he played so sparingly that it really didn't matter but he never came close to that 7.5 because he was a scrub.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:24 AM) http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&sort=24,d Not that many, but I don't think it's because of the ballpark. That's a fairly bold claim and the Cell's outfield is about as standard as they come. I know somebody before (I think it was you) has pointed out that the shape of the fences makes it difficult to rob homers, and while that may be true, it wouldn't swing the numbers that much. And the difference between Avi and Eaton is that Eaton has put up a successful defensive season in the past. Avi has only ever massacred the outfield. Actually he hasn't . in 2 years with the Sox, which is our only way to measure it. he's been -1.6 and -8.8 . Now if you want to look up his DRS numbers be my guest.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 07:23 AM) Eaton had really good D stats in 14 IIRC. Adam Eaton was a -1.6 in 2014 according to the listed Fangraphs WAR.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 6, 2015 -> 06:29 AM) Despite my campaigning, people still don't realize how bad Avisail Garcia was. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...0&sort=21,a Yes he was terrible, awful, a huge disappointment but I often wonder if the elite OF's this year Kevin Pillar, Kevin Keiermaier, Jason Heyward, Lorenzo Cain put up the same defensive WAR in US Cellular ? Seems like Sox OF's somehow get punished for playing there. Who was the last Sox OF who even had a decent defensive rating like say a 5 on the positive side ? The OF's I mentioned are all 15+ so I'm not asking for much with a 5. Everyone harps on Avi's D (well his offense too) but his defensive WAR was a -13.8 while Adam Eaton's was a -8.8 . Someone show me a good defensive OF who played for the Sox in the last ,say, 15 years.Oh hell make it 25 years , still might not find one with a decent defensive WAR.

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Oct 5, 2015 -> 01:03 PM) More than a couple of his assists came on balls he misplayed so bad that people tried to turn them into doubles. That isn't exactly a good thing. And he definitely is on the worst list. Awful player. Well that's a unique spin on things . What did he have 16/17 assists? How many do you actually think were balls that were misplayed ? Way to turn a positive into a negative, truly a new high in taking a great thing a player can do and turning it into s***. There's a lot to criticize about Avi but his arm isn't one of them. Next thing you know you'll be telling me all that hustle when he runs to 1st is a waste of energy.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 08:25 PM) I disagree. No, they wouldn't take an everyday player like LaRoche over Sale since LaRoche is that bad and Sale is that great that even if he pitched one pitch every 5 days, he'd still be more valuable. But if you're comparing Arrenado and Sale, I think you'll see all of them take Nolan. I wonder what it would take to get Manny Machado. I was just thinking a Sale for Machado trade recently .

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Oct 4, 2015 -> 04:51 PM) And Avi Garcia when he wasn't stealing home runs. ...or throwing guys out since I assume you mean he is on the worst list.