CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 09:19 AM) For the role that Konerko played, I would have much rather seen this imaginary player get 500 ABs in AAA, vs 200ish ABs on the Sox bench. Plus your definition of "value" seems to be all statistical. There is a value to having an idea of how to conduct yourself in the game of baseball. That has value. Listen to what the young guys on this value say about Konerko. They don't see him as "valueless". That is reserved for fans who are removed from the game. Not just talking about 1 player. Perhaps the last 3 bench players all get 350 AB's , a point when you can start making more informed decisions about them . Keep him as a coach if that's something important going forward. Have him teach that stuff in the lowest levels of the minor leagues where it can take root and help players develop . Less leadership and more talent and winning a lot of baseball games is more important at the Major League level.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 09:01 AM) But that is what they were doing. It was a role where you aren't going to "develop" someone. He is mentoring, which should have some value. It isn't a role that is to be judged soley by his on field performance, which, BTW, was fine for the role he has been in. It is rare a player with Konerko's stature takes a role like this. But that shouldn't mean anything negative. If Paul Konerko being on this roster makes you think the White Sox aren't 100% dedicated to building a winner, perhaps you are the one with comprehension issues. Coaches mentor . Players play. Why should the 25th man be relegated to doing what PK does ? You build a young roster . You use young guys as interchangeable parts rotating them in and out , getting a feel for if they will be useful for the future, building value . What part of old and valueless for the future of a rebuilding franchise do you not understand ?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 09:02 AM) But it does go to show that even the most successful franchises believe in the value of the presence of veteran players on a roster, even if their performances aren't up to historical norms. On a winning team yes on a rebuilding team no.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 08:48 AM) The Hawks aren't a great example when they bring back guys like Michal Handzus and Nikolai Khabibulin, because of leadership and experience. If the Sox were winning like the Hawks do having vets play some minor bench roles would be fine but they aren't.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 08:45 AM) Konerko is in a positon to barely get 200 plate apperances for the season. Do you really want a young player with potential to be a regular basically wasting a year of development ? Your complaining might be valid if Paulie expected to be a regular, but he was a PH and an option vs. LHP which there isn't a lot of, and he is supposedly mentoring. His being on the roster didn't hurt anyone's development. Who should have had his role? Your reading comprehension needs some work. I just got finished saying I can't predict the future on whether having PK hurt the franchise in the long run and it's not about the 25th spot on the team. It's about doing the things that winners do , showing the fans you're 100% dedicated to building a winner. There is no room for sentiment . The fans had plenty of time last year to say goodbye to PK .

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 08:14 AM) I'd be upset about it if it turned out that it mattered. But it hasn't, so it's a waste to stress out over it, IMO. PK got his "one more year," and it didn't cost us much anything. Maybe his leadership helped a bit. He certainly protected Dunn against lefties, which, we hoped would help us trade him, but it didn't. Oh well. I'm certainly not going to say I can predict the future and say one more year of PK will hurt the franchise in the long run nor should you by saying it hasn't mattered. It just sent mixed messages to how truly dedicated Sox management is to a rebuild, I understand Reinsdorf wants to show loyalty to Sox players and how important that is to him. The Blackhawks dumped Denis Savard as coach when they felt he wasn't the coach they needed going forward yet kept him in another capacity. They brought in Scotty Bowman a guy who had years and years of success for Montreal and Detroit. What did the Sox do? They hired a former player to manage the team with no experience and then gave him an extension. They gave PK another year. Would it have been "nice" for the Hawks to be loyal to former players ?Yes very nice. But I'll take contending for the Stanley Cup and hiring winners with proven track records every time. Wnners do not do what Sox management is doing. It's really no surprise that the rebuild has hit a major snafu already and none of us should be surprised if we see another 5+ years of not making the playoffs.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 01:30 PM) Development time? Whose development time has he taken away ? How many games in the standings did he really cost the team, and what difference would that have made if you even are correct besides perhaps Carlos Rodon being a Cub? Funny I thought this was a rebuilding year. He wasn't going to be traded so he's pretty useless for a rebuild, He's not young nor does he need AB's to develop so pretty useless for a rebuild. He's well paid, set up for life while getting to retire 25 yrs. before a working stiff. He'll get a statue most likely and he gets to go out on his terms ? Most of us would've just liked it if he didn't take up valuable space on this years roster. It has nothing to do with the enjoyment of his fine career. This was a year for youth and speed and athleticism to be served , to building for the future. Paulie contributed nothing to those things so some us question how dedicated Hahn might be to a rebuild if he can appear to not care about every spot on the 25 being used to achieve his goal. He's been extremely well compensated for his efforts. Go for a rebuild with every resource you have or I can't take you seriously. There's only so much time Sox fans will have patience for a last place low payroll team but might have a little more if they feel the effort from the front office is pure. PK already has all of what most of us have to break our backs for. He didn't have to stand in the way of progress also.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 06:24 AM) Robin might be worse than average, but let's be honest, this isn't a thread about him being anywhere in the realm of acceptable: this is the thread called "Is Robin the Worst Manager in the HISTORY of MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL?" and it includes several examples of posters claiming that, with a better manager, our team would be in FIRST PLACE. It includes several other references claiming that, with a different manager, our team would be a shoe-in for one of the Wild Card berths. It has posters honestly watching games, looking at the roster, and claiming that a different manager would be able to coax OUR BULLPEN into success. It has posters blaming defensive errors on Robin Ventura, poorly executed bunts on Robin Ventura, the role of freaking Paul Konerko on Robin Ventura. It has poster blaming the entirety of the person named ALEJANDRO DE AZA on Robin Ventura. That's what this thread is. And this thread is a joke. It amazes me that intelligent posters are so gullible, constantly arguing with the people who take the most ridiculous stances and make the most over the top statements. I could understand if they made points where you could make a counterpoint. But the hook is just thrown in the water without bait and so many people bite on it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 11, 2014 -> 11:48 AM) For some reason, I doubt that Leury Garcia is going to be the cleanup hitter moving forward. Abreu is not going to get that treatment. What I'm wondering is this...with all the struggles Flowers has had this year, why is no one in this thread suggesting that the Sox give Phegley a look? Wilkins's line is at .295/.338/.570/.909, yet Phegley's at .286/.344/.550/.894 in the same ballpark. And, on top of that, Phegley's done this 2 years in a row and is virtually the same age as Wilkins. The need to replace Dunn and his production is the more pressing need ATM plus the need for a power bat from the left side.

QUOTE (BaconOnAStick @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 04:04 AM) Anyone worried? I sorta am, particularly with the sudden loss of power since the break. It was always my contention that the length of the Cuban season as opposed to the MLB season might have an effect on Jose. His body is used to being on vacation right about now. In my mind it was does he heat up in the warmer weather or wear down from the length of the season ? He played 5+ years there and his body will need to readjust . Might not be a matter of nutrition or strength but just a what the body and mind are used to.

Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 10:52 AM) Watching the replay of the game on NFL Network right now. I know, I know, it's just preseason, but I'm encouraged by the performance of the 1st string defense. I did the same. The tight ends Miller and Rosario both looked good as did the wideouts and Jimmy Clausen.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 09:08 PM) Clutch Conor ...and his pals Spinner and Paddlefoot ?

A part of the article from whitesox.com After the game, won by Eric Surkamp (1-0) and saved by Jake Petricka (eighth), Noesi sported a Scott Carroll-owned Doodle Hat with the word "Revenge" and his name written on it. It was the same hat he wore last Monday after beating Texas, another team that had given up on him this year. That night also happened to mark the last White Sox win. "Sometimes when you don't believe in somebody, sometimes they need to show me that I can do it, that I can believe in something," Noesi said. "When I got here, [White Sox pitching coach Don] Cooper told me a lot of things, we talked. That's why I'm getting better, because he told me that I can do it." Abreu Alexi Conor HecNo

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 08:06 PM) So, um...why is PK facing a tough righty in the 7th? Did PK Month start or something? I was thinking great spot for Conor.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 07:33 PM) he was safe @ 1st. Apparently not.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 03:24 PM) I think we should be rooting for Dunn to bunt. The issue was Rasmus bunt away from the shift. Which is so silly , that's what you're supposed to do against the shift. Make them play you honest.

QUOTE (kev211 @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 09:12 AM) What was he doing before the glasses? Was he just going with his regular bad vision? Or was he wearing contacts? I don't see how switching from contacts to glasses would help any. Like I said earlier in the thread he says it's from adjustments he's made. whitesox.com article here http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?g...me&c_id=cws

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 08:47 AM) Ah come on now, this and any forum is filled with people saying definitive things about things that aren't technically definitive. It wouldn't be the internet if people had to put a qualifier ahead of saying anything! Ok cool. I had seen some posters questioning you because you put your personal info out there about your lack of experience with baseball . As long as you can take the heat . Sorry for sticking my nose in. Just thought it might help some if you softened your stance some.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 07:30 AM) We'll need to wait and see. All I know is, since he's started wearing his glasses, his BABIP is way higher than .380 (closer to .400). He's got a .607 BABIP since the ASB. It could be luck or it could be a real improvement. Post All star break Flowers is hitting .455 Eaton .471 Sierra in much fewer AB's .471.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 10:42 AM) I can't believe that Robin didn't ask him to start wearing glasses earlier in the season. He should have been told "either wear your glasses or go home" I'm 99.9999 % sure he was wearing contacts before he went to the glasses and even he doesn't think its the glasses that are the reason he's hitting well. He wondered why so many people are asking him about his glasses and asked the CSN Sox correspondent about it who prompted started talking about the stats pre and post glasses. Tyler asked him to stop.Not sure what that means. Either he doesn't want to hear how utterly bad he was or just dismissing the whole thing as nonsense and most likely attributes the change in production to recent batting adjustments..

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 05:49 AM) I'm not calling them simpletons or anything similar, but when threads like these pop-up, I really DO question whether a lot of people here understand the plan. 10 months ago, at the end of the most excruciating Sox season I've ever experienced, 95% of our posters rightfully (IMO) wanted to clean house. Now halfway through the FIRST season of this, after some frankly incredible strides in the "cleaning house" plan having taken place, we're ripping baseball operations for not having enough bullpen depth to compete? You've got to be kidding me. Oh I know you aren't calling them simpletons its just that me and you and many others are coming at them from all directions about the plan and myriad other reasons not to get all bent out of shape about the pen and VA fan is ecstatic I said Yea Hahn's human he didn't throw piles of cash at the pen and fix everything about the team all in one year. I backed off from trying to explain it and threw my hands up and said OK you want someone to say Hahn some how has failed and what he put in place for a bullpen didnt work out ? Fine . Any plan to get some tradeable pieces also failed . Yet s*** happens when you have a plan to fix things , no plan can go right 100% of the time. No they aren't simpletons they are just whiny brats expecting every facet of a human beings' plan to go perfectly and make us contenders every year and focusing on the bad to cry about it instead of the strides towards respectability the Sox have made.

Dear Mr Magee, I should probably do this in a PM but making definitive statement like "He will never settle in at .250 " comes off as arrogant . Now I know in your mind his history and stats tell you you're right with a high degree of certainty. Might I suggest that you say his stats and history "suggest" or "point towards " unsustainability. Also you might not care that you sound arrogant but since you revealed that you never played the game or correct me if I'm wrong , haven't followed baseball for very long it appears doubly arrogant and that why sometimes people mention those things to you about having never played the game. Just throwing yourself into modern stats doesn''t make you a predictor of the future. A little humility goes a long way when dealing with hardcore fans who really don't want to hear there is no hope for a member of their favorite team . Hope is all we have most of the time so let a few of us hope Tyler can be more than his stats and history "suggest " that he is.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 5, 2014 -> 04:42 AM) Right greg, but he COULD have spent a lot more time, money, and trade chips on it to give it a better shot, but doing so would have been completely irresponsible because expensive bullpens are a waste of resources on bad teams. And what we had at the time was a BAD team with some new acquisitions that would hopefully work out. Now that most of those acquisitions have worked out, we have the core of a decent team, we have enough information to start pushing more chips into the middle. Those of you that are advocating a complete hail mary every year need to realize that that very rarely ever works out and that the cost of missing is that you end up like the Phillies, Cubs, or Astros. Hahn's plan is to be patient and do this right, and we're all going to be very happy about it pretty soon. You know Eminor these people we're debating this with are not simpletons they understand the concept that rebuilding takes patience and time. Did I want more spent coming into the season ? I sure did. I wanted Ellsbury ,but when I saw what he signed for I wasn't upset the Sox didn't get him Did Hahn want more? He sure did, he wanted Tanaka. Had they got Tanaka would they have spent a bit more on the bullpen afterwards ? I don't know .We will never know. But Tanaka and Ellbury are both the kind of contracts you're speaking of that screw things up for teams. Unfortunately that's the price you have to pay now in the game. The agents and the deep pockets owners have made sure its the rich who will always get richer and to get a superstar and really even just good players you have to pay for their declining years .Teams that try and do it another way often have long dry spells of failure like you mention. The Cubs ,Astros, Royals . Tampa Bay has had some success with keeping costs down and so has Oakland recently. Marlins won 2 WS (1997 and 2003) then completely and utterly destroyed their teams. Pirates can never get anything accomplished because they just don't have the cash flow coming in. The Sox ? Well attendance could be better, they don't have a huge TV contract bringing in huge amounts of cash like the Yankees, Boston, Seattle or the Dodgers.They don't have an ownership group that will spend irresponsibly like the Phillies and Detroit. There are 2 teams in the city and of the 2 the Sox are the ugly stepchild. The fans just won't show up because we're the lovable losers . Our fans demand a winner , screw fiscal responsibility and the rest of those lame excuses about rebuilding. Screw the fact that bullpen pieces are rarely considered core pieces and their performances fluctuate greatly from year to year. or that sometimes things can blow up in your face like injuries and unexpected bad years . Screw the fact Hahn just got Sale and Q and now Abreu it seems under great to pretty good contracts. Screw his acquisitions of Eaton and getting Gillaspie for practically nothing. Yet ,as evidenced in this thread, they throw tantrums like whiny little brats when they can't have it all every year. Waaa it's all Hahn's fault for trading Addison Reed . My suggestion : go be Red Sox or Yankees, Dodger fans if you expect every last dime to be spent every damn year. Hahn can't say that but I can.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Aug 4, 2014 -> 10:00 PM) I don't see anybody particularly doubting him per se, just people pointing out that saying Danish is a top 20 prospect is a bit extreme. As far as why Danish isn't higher ranked, I don't think he had too much hype coming out of high school (admittedly, most likely due to the reasons Jake points out), and he doesn't exactly have the loudest peripherals to really overcome the sort of confirmation bias on these lists. Didn't he have a 0 ERA his Sr. year ?