CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Calling all LH batting catchers The Sox want you.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 24, 2015 -> 04:50 PM) I can't say I like trading an interesting 21 year old pitcher who improved for a 26 year old ceiling situational reliever who has been terrible. Not a big deal either way I guess. Almonte probably a few years away at least and this could be immediate BP depth though the walk rate is very alarming. Someone will sign Albers and Webb hasn't helped . Sox probably don't want Montas in the BP just yet. Let him battle it out with Petricka , Putnam and the rest for a spot.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 23, 2015 -> 08:47 PM) That would be a steal for the Sox. Can't see the Dodgers trading Puig AND the best prospect in baseball without asking for Anderson in there too with those 3. So you don't think Puig's value has dropped like a rock or the Dodgers are unwilling to admit he's now worth a lot less then he was ?

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 21, 2015 -> 06:17 AM) Good stuff here and thanks for the reply. The weight, tardiness and injuries make me want to run like hell in the opposite and never look back but I see what you and others mean by potential. Imo, no chance I trade Q for that potential and certainly Sale and Rodon would be out of the question for me as well. So what would be left that the Sox have that could be of interest to the Dodgers? I'm guessing the Dodgers are looking for a pitcher to replace Greinke but Puig is not worth any of the three pitchers I mentioned. Another problem I have is that the Sox and Dodgers both have too many outfielders so an exchange of outfielders doesn't sound too likely or make sense. I really don't see how a trade can be pulled off unless a third team in need of outfielders is brought into the equation some how. I think a better idea would be for the Sox to go after Ozuna. Sox and Marlins potentially match up better, imo. Just trade Melky and Avi for Puig straight up. Sounds lopsided in the Sox favor of course but they're trying to win a World Series next year I assume and do they really want Puig screwing with team chemistry ? Sox need talent and Dodgers need to be rid of Puig . They get Melky's steadiness and Avi's potential while we get a talented screw up.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 09:09 PM) Darling single handedly stole a point for the Hawks. Everyone else was below average to terrible this game. One good news is Kane extended his point streak. The Hawks looked asleep the whole game. Maybe their worst performance of the year. I was thinking of posting here between the 3rd period and OT to say the Hawks are going to lose this game but there's really no break between the 3rd and OT. Gaudreau swipes the puck from Seabrook and undressed Darling . Even in a lose ,though, I love to watch guys like Johnny Hockey .

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 06:18 PM) Q, Adams, and Fulmer for Puig and Corey Seager? Would that be fair for both teams? Very doubtful the Dodgers would trade Seager and giving up 3 pitchers is giving up way too much pitching especially since it's the only kind of talent the Sox have had any luck with.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 06:30 PM) Can I ask what the hype over Puig is about? I'm honestly not seeing it or why some fans are seemingly eager to trade Q for him. What am I missing? Not sure what you mean. The Puig of his 1st 2 season was a very good player. His OBP those 2 years was in the .380-.390 range. Power, speed a great arm but wild on the bases, a bit of an untamed stallion. . Basically he has problems with his weight, tardiness, injuries and Mattingly said something about a miraculous recovery from a hamstring injury inplying he was babying it then all of a sudden he's available to play. So now there's the comments from Scott Van Syke's father that Kershaw supposedly said the Dodgers should get rid of him. So he's a major league prima donna or at best immature but talented as hell. Certainly the Dodger's would be selling low on him if they were inclined to trade him. Now his value is low and sinking fast if what Andy Van Slyke said is to be believed. He has all the talent in the world but his attitude and work ethic is being called into serious question. I am certainly not advocating Q for him but the Sox need talent and acquiring Puig would be a boon to the Sox as far as national publicity would go. Can the Dodgers really afford to keep him if he is a huge problem in the clubhouse when they are also most likely be losing Greinke and will need pitching to stay in the hunt for October ?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 19, 2015 -> 09:56 PM) I love Greinke and I have heard from multiple people close to the Dodgers that he has been their leader (and one of the few). Supposedly keeps things very loose. Kind of like Maddux a bit in that he's a big jokester, etc. He can be a dick to the media though but when he is, its usually pretty funny. I also agree with your other points though and I would also point out that in general the Dodgers are a mess. They cleaned a lot up this past year but they still have major issues in that clubhouse and Puig definitely doesn't feel the love. I think a change of scenery could do him well and I'd be all over a deal. I think the upside is worth it. Would love the Dodgers young catcher and Puig for Q, but probably not realistic. Big name, big publicity for the Sox plus he is talented. This just makes him less expensive to get. Do they want to keep a jerk when they having trouble getting over the hump and close to a World Series appearance ? My guess is Puig is gone this winter if they want to add by subtraction. Stay in touch with the Dodgers and keep semi-low balling them. Don't offer Q unless they want to throw in a high level prospect in an area of need for us.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 03:52 PM) I disagree with all this except for the point of his command being an issue. "Not going deep into games at any level" is 100% what I would expect from his background. Just look at it - at age 17/18 he was in the Dominican Summer League pitching 20 innings per year. He threw 40 innings in the low minors at age 19. At that same age, Carlos Rodon threw 114 innings. Just look at that track and ask yourself how far behind that would leave him even if everything were perfect. You're surprised at him not going deep into games? Yeah he probably threw a few extra innings in summer ball elsewhere, but a guy on a big league track from the U.S. is getting SO much more work it's not funny. Every single one of those things you just mentioned can fit easily into this narrative. He isn't going long into games? 3 seasons ago he threw 40 innings. He hasn't gotten his command down yet or his 3rd pitch isn't developed? He's thrown 380 innings in the minors in 6 seasons. Carlos Rodon threw 360 in the three seasons where he was 19, 20, and 21. You can't be surprised when a guy is behind the curve set by your #1 prospect when he starts of WAY behind that curve. Thank you. I'm glad you spelled it all out in detail. I took the shortcut and just said look where he's come from and look where is is at now. Maybe I assumed too much .

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 02:23 AM) Cali, you're awesome, but you lose, literally everything at "as young or as good." Nevermind that Kimbrel is younger on top of it too. Robertson has value, and in a world where we're realizing that high leverage situations mean more (meaning the f***ing Royals won a World Series with a pitching AAA rotation, outside of Cueto), Robertson is still making too much for that. Also, it's worth mentioning that the rest of the baseball world feels that Dombrowski overpaid badly on that trade. Recent history has proven that teams are willing to take chances on late inning relievers early in the season, and if those don't work out, they make a move for them later. If you disagree with this, excluding the trade of Brad Lidge from Houston to Philadelphia (which was a dollars on the dime trade to begin with), I'd love to see the last trade that occurred in the offseason that moved a medium salaried reliever to another team, let alone one of the highest paid relievers in the league. I said that he wasn't as young or as good meaning "ok he's not worth 4 prospects but he is worth one good one. Ad the quy who originaly wrote what I responded too admitted he didn't think their salary's were similar. Anyway we'll see what happens. Robertson probably doesn't get moved anyway. Imagine what the Sox record might've been had they not had Robertson. I know we'd be getting close to the number 1 pick perhaps. It so sucks that all those FA signings went south so badly. Plus I don't know quite what you mean by "the rest of the baseball world". I know a lot of writers thought he overpaid. But writers are like teachers in the sense that those who can ,"do" and those who can't , "teach" . It's yet to be determined whether or not it was an overpay. If Boston does another worst to 1st and their BP comes up aces and those prospects don't amount to a hill of beans then who wins ?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 08:50 PM) I think there's a decent chance this is his high point in value. As far as your Sale-Montas comparison I just don't get the logic. The three pitches they throw don't make them similar. By that logic, we can move Montas because we have another Montas on the way with Danish. OK geez rabbit if I have to spell it out for you. Both throw fastballs in the high 90's range and 95+ consistently. Both have sliders that are their main putaway pitch or out pitch or K pitch whatever you want to call it. the change up is both their least used pitch at least until Sale really started throwing the change a lot to cut down on his slider total. Can't use Danish because he isn't a hard thrower. I really thought you had more on the ball than me having to explain it to you. I don't understand why you think his growth is over since you said you think he is already at peak value. He tore it up at A ball ,continued to improve in AA so much so that he got called up. When the Sox got him he was just a thrower and in 2 years he was pitching in the majors having lowered his walk rate dramatically. He was a 20 year throw-in in the Peavy trade .If you don't have hope (and I think this is realistic hope that he can be a valuable piece of the rotation) what does a prospect have to do to get you excited ?

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Nov 11, 2015 -> 07:11 AM) I've read some posts on here that feel Sale should pitch to contact more, and that the focus on strikeouts was part of the cause for his career-high ERA. I don't really agree with that, he saw a similar large jump in his K% and K/9 from 2013 to 2014, where he had by far the lowest ERA of his career. This year it was a combination of bad defense, perhaps a bit of bad luck on balls in play (his BABIP was significantly higher than his career average), too many big innings, the god damn Twins, and giving up way too many HR the last 5-6 weeks of the season. I feel like his fastball got hit a lot because he was cutting down on sliders. Not sure the stats back that up but I'm sure someone who knows where to find his BAA on fastballs and BAA on sliders and changeups will tell us. Lefties I think also hit him much better than in past years. Maybe too many fastballs instead of sliders to LH's ?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 18, 2015 -> 10:39 AM) I don't support this because given Quintana's below-market contract, I think the Sox would lose value in any trade that doesn't also involve players on below-market contracts. You can shuffle wins from SP to 3B or whatever, but that position player is likely going to consume more financial resources than Quintana would, thus making it harder to fill the void that still exists because you just created it by moving Quintana. Before anyone says, "THAT'S WHY YOU ASK FOR EVERY TEAM'S TWO BEST PLAYERS AND BEST PROSPECTS QUINTANA IS WORTH MROE THAN SALE TBH," everyone would be in favor of trading Quintana for some stupid, lopsided, fire-able overpay, but that's not realistically going to happen, so it doesn't belong in a logical discussion. If that boons falls into our laps, fine, but that can't be a part of "the plan." Why isn't it likely ?? The Rangers paid a boatload for a Hamels and like the article says he's older , more expensive and may be on the downside of his career , whereas Q is all kinds of good and young , cheap with possibly awesome years ahead of him especially if he pitched in the NL. The A's paid a lot for Samardzija and the Sox gave up 4 players for 1 year of Samardzija. The Red Sox gave up talent for a top flight relief pitcher for heavens sake. Is Q not more valuable than Kimbrel ? Everybody wants pitching and who looks as good and as affordable as Q ? Damn it, it IS possible to get some really good pieces for Q , maybe even probable . I'd really hate seeing him go. I was on the Q bandwagon when it seems like half the board thought he was doing it with smoke and mirrors. All these scrubs have got to go. Gimme some top 50 and top 100 prospects or a real major leaguer or 2. . Yea it sucks that it has to come to this but watcha gonna do when you got no real positional talent in the minors and you're only real bargaining chips are pitchers ?

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 02:10 PM) It's been mentioned in several articles that Dombrowski has checked with the A's about Sonny Gray and the White Sox about Sale. It came from Gammons and besides Gray and Sale it also included Carlos Carrasco of the Indians that Dombrowski has checked into the availability.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 15, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) Source assuming what you're talking about is the White Sox and Red Sox are talking about a deal? It's been mentioned in several articles that Dombrowski has checked with the A's about Sonny Gray and the White Sox about Sale.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 12:46 PM) I can't think of a nice way of saying this but there are no similarities between the two other than that they throw FB-SL-CH. You think I was comparing their physiques or their paths to the majors ?? Of course I brought Sale up because of FB SL and CU . I don't know how fast you expect Montas to develop but if you look at where he was and where he is now you are selling him short.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 12:09 PM) It's not though. I usually don't write guys off and in the White Sox case, I won't write off Montas either. He doesn't really have a 3rd pitch though and he has like 45 command. I bet they sell high and use him in a package to a team that thinks he can start. He has fastball slider and changeup and while you think trading him now would be selling high imagine if he improves his control and command of those 3 pitches . Then we all look back and say we sold Montas off way too low. He could add a 2 seamer or curve along the way . He has grown by leaps and bounds since the Sox acquired him. Now everyone is all of a sudden buying into his growth all of a sudden stopping or slowing to a crawl. How many scouting reports or evaluators also thought Sale was a reliever ? If he continues the learning curve he's been on then you are looking at the right handed version of Sale .

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 07:38 AM) I know the team doesn't seem to be hurting for money, but I still think they should have just let the Yankees have him when they claimed him off waivers. I guess you're talking about Robertson. Do you really think the Sox couldn't get anything but salary relief for him after what Kimbrel got ? I know Robertson isn't as young or as good as Kimbrel but he is still worth a prospect, maybe even a good one. I think the trade market for relief pitchers will be strong this winter and if the Sox decide to move him they should get something back and shouldn't have to pay any of his salary unless they want to upgrade who they get back. He has a history of being a consistently strong closer. His salary should not be any kind of issue for teams looking for a reliable closer.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Nov 17, 2015 -> 07:19 AM) Let's see if Montas actually fails as a starter before we relegate him to closer. Even a solid fourth starter has more value than a closer. Thank you. Sometimes it seems as if I'm the only one who thinks Montas should be given every chance to start. Those relegating him to closer or the bullpen at this point in his career are misguided. He isn't ready to either start or close in the majors yet as he has control and command issues . His upside is still a number 2 starter and that would be extremely valuable to the Sox. The kid will be 23 in March . Give him a chance to reach his potential. He can always be converted to a reliever when he has proven that he can't start.

Those 2 TD's to Miller and Langford had to be the longest scoring plays by the offense this year.

Kane, Panarin. Damn it's fun watching those two. Panarin looked downright joyful after he scored. He might not speak english but he sure speaks hockey fluently.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Nov 14, 2015 -> 06:33 PM) Unless Toews plans on fighting Backes, he needs to put his head down and play hockey. The team looks bad when he's not focused. He actually did go after him after the hit on Hjalmarsson . Got Backes sweater pulled over his head and it ended quickly .Once Backes was blind the linesmen stepped in.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Nov 14, 2015 -> 06:33 PM) Unless Toews plans on fighting Backes, he needs to put his head down and play hockey. The team looks bad when he's not focused. Enforcers ( at least on the Hawks) are a thing of the past . Maybe Toews thinks it's his duty as Captain to somehow let the Blues know that they won't take that crap lying down. BTW great assist by Panarin to find Kane all alone in front. Hawks do seem to have some extra life on their skates determined to not let the Blues dictate play.

Allen highway robbery on Dano . Looked in but call not overturned. Kane PP goal !! 3-2 Hawks !

Toews does not like Backes one iota . Frankly ,I thought Backes flopped on the Toews penalty in the 1st period but I didn't get a real good look at it,