CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Bleacher Reports thinks Ervin Santana would be a good fit for the Sox .http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2253830-projecting-1-impact-signing-every-mlb-team-will-make-this-winter/page/7 But remember that article just says if every team signed 1 free agent who seems the most likely candidate.

From CSn in the foot injury article; The White Sox were impressed with the way Bassitt took the lessons he learned in his one month in the majors and applied them to the AFL. (Farm director Nick)Capra said Bassitt used all four of his pitches, including a changeup he learned to develop while with the White Sox. He also pitched inside more often and was more willing to pitch to both sides of the plate. “The experience he had in the big leagues taught this kid a lot,” Capra said. “It looks like he’s taking off with it.” 0.69 ERA and 22 K's , 3 walks in 13 innings in the AFL which we know can never be called a pitchers league.

I'd also like to point out that since I heavily rejoined the discussion the votes went from 23 for and 25 against to 25/25 . Seriously though I think that most people's minds were made up on this subject long before this thread. Any of you voters out there who were on the fence but reading the thread swayed you one way or another ?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 02:02 PM) I think Abreu will be a fine mentor. Maybe LaRoche will be, too. And we know the fanbase will get excited when we win, not before (at least in any measurable sense), so I think think we should be focused on that overall. Also, wasn't Victor caught up in the middle of the Avi vs. Prince Fielder debacle? Maybe he was a mediator, but it's a definite possibility that Victor does NOT like Avi, especially considering it seems like Avi was pretty clearly in the wrong. Or at least, either no one was in the wrong or Avi was in the wrong. Remember the Sale/Martinez incident ? It was Avi who told Martinez that Sale thought he was getting signs from CF which is a more recent thing than the Fielder incident so I'm pretty sure Avi and Victor are friends. I think when talking mentors a fellow countryman will always be a better choice for influence. My many many yrs. of being a Sox and baseball fan tell me its the intangibles that often make a difference . So while I will always applaud your logical way of looking at things taking VMart from the Tigers and a possible adjustment yr. needed from LaRoche to facing AL pitchers at his age and the publicity surrounding a VMArt signing are things that can't be ignored or pushed aside as negligible.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:50 PM) But more pinch runners HA You know I knew you'd say that and I was going to put it in my posts and say don't you dare say more pinchrunners but if we're talking DH's they pretty much all need PR's. At least the one's you mentioned do.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:42 PM) I don't think anyone's disputing that Victor is the best hitter available this year, but they are all either substantially younger, substantially cheaper, or don't come with draft pick compensation. Balta's point, I think, is that there are other options and that there are always other options. I really think LaRoche is the best option. If we all agree that healthy expectations for Martinez and LaRoche are ~125 and 115 wRC+, respectively, then we're talking the difference in going with LaRoche equalling about getting 10% less offense for 50% fewer total dollars, 50% fewer years, and no draft pick compensation. You get most of the production and a bunch of money to spend on something else too. Also get no mentor for Avi and less excitement in the general fanbase for signing a superstar and we don't hurt the Tigers. Also I really hate National League hitters coming to the AL.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) There's a decent chance Butler is even cheaper and his career numbers are just about as good as the other guys, the only Q I'm left with is what we do with the other lineup slots we have available. This wouldn't bother me that much if our manager was willing to put a series of righties together in the lineup but he's not, so we do need a LH bat there. Having Martinez would also mean less PH in the late innings Robin would have to think about.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 12:42 PM) my problem stems from the number of yrs on the contract and salary demand per yr. I don't like adding a 4th yr either but maybe he gets 4 yrs, maybe he doesn't and right now he isn't making any "demands". If I had to guess what he'll "ask" for probably $18M+.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 12:55 PM) Just to point out how solvable this position is every year, in addition to Laroche, here's the WRC+ career for various guys who are also available: Michael Morse's: 122 Kendrys Morales: 111 Billy Butler: 117 Michael Cuddyer 117 Pablo Sandoval: 122 Dick was saying either a switch hitter or a LH because we need a LH badly . Morse ,Butler and Cuddyer are RH . Sandoval was pitiful against LH's this year and isn't a DH and Morales was just plain pitiful all around . Not solved at all.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 12:36 PM) I don't think his performance is any riskier than LaRoche's, but when you factor cost, Victor is a riskier proposition. Cost factors are just that VMart is better than LaRoche . The added benefit to having a VMart over LaRoche is his switch hitting greatness means you aren't hurt when those specialists are brought in and we all know the games can be won or lost when a team brings in a LH to face a guy like LaRoche. The more guys that don't have to be platooned that you have the better your chance of winning those tight late innings or extra innings games become. Also as a fellow Venezuelan I think his influence on Avi might pay great benefits to his development.

Guess the difference between our arguments is that I don't see VMart as the most risky by far. You mentioned Adam LaRoche as a possibility. He's 13 months younger than VMart but he's not very good against LH's. Of course he'd be cheaper and be able to play a better 1st base than Martinez in late innings and occasional starts. So he's essentially useless against LH's and his K's hurt you in those runner on 3rd and less than 2 out situations. Martinez has shown throughout his career that he is equally good against LH's and RH's . You also have the same arguments for rapid decline because of the similarities in age. Sure you can sign him for 1 or 2 less years probably but I'd rather have the guy who can be a bigger threat against all pitchers and in late innings when teams bring in a specialist.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:46 AM) That is what I believe too. It would be nice to think you know 6 or 7 guys in the White Sox regular line up 3 or 4 years from now and/or their rotation and bullpen, but I am not sure if it is BA or BP that projects the line ups 3 or 4 years down the road. They usually wind up with only a couple of guys correct. To say before the Sox fill this huge hole, they need to fill this hole and that hole, is IMO being timid. You need to fill the holes when you can. And if those holes cannot be filled now, at least the one you did fill should be filled for a couple of years at the very least until someone develops or another opportunity arises. Or you still are going to be in the same spot year after year. The Sox cannot continue to waste Sale and Q and to some extent, Abreu. If you are waiting for this system to develop all these players before you take any decent sized risks, history has shown, we will all be waiting a long time. What I get from this thread is that everyone voting no is looking for the " perfect fit" to spend the big money on like Abreu was. That and the possibility of money tied up on an injured or rapidly declining player. We got lucky with Abreu and unlucky with Dunn and Danks. These 3 things combined have Sox fans very wary of long term committments. I think established/veteran talent has to be added always because other players careers also go into that negative trajectory mode. What if Abreu becomes the player he was in the 2nd half ? What if Avi becomes what Eminor always thought he was ? What if Sale blows out his arm ? For planned steps forward there always seems to be unplanned steps backward. There are always going to be contracts we aren't happy about. There's just no getting around that in todays game. At least when you add talent and things go awry in other areas to screw up your season that talent is tradeable. If you keep dumpster diving a guy like Noesi , for instance, isn't worth as much in trade as that established vet because of the fear he will go back to being trash.

QUOTE (rneums33 @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 05:29 AM) Why all the no's to VMart? The guy is a pure hitter and is exactly what this lineup needs. A left handed (or switch hitting) bat to protect Abreu. I know he is 36 but all he will do is DH and maybe play 1st once in a while. 3 years of VMart at 36 will payoff better than 4 years of Dunn. VMart will still be producing when he is 39. Some guys are just pure hitters and he is one of them. Plus, we will hurt Detroit by taking him and who else on the market is a better bat than him? When the Sox signed Dunn all anyone could find was maybe 1 person who objected to it. Then there's how Dunn performed. So it's basically Dunnitis. The donkey kicked them and they're afraid to get anywhere close to it now. Also the Sox are a limited resources team so it's likely that VMart's AAV will be a record for a Sox player. Most would rather see the money spread out. $15-20M could buy 1 starting pitcher and 1 reliever potentially or some other combination of questionable talent.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 09:23 AM) Thats great, but I think acquisitions will be made with on eye on continuing to build forward. Signing Jose Fernandez to an Abreu like deal, trading for CarGo, adding a viable mid-rotation starting pitcher and adding some pieces to the bullpen will all increase payroll and keep the Sox investing for the future. VMart is just going to be too old and too expensive at the end of whatever deal he gets to make me think it will be a good move for the Sox. A 3 year conract is building forward for 3 years. In 3 years time half the roster won't be the same most likely.If we're lucky Bassitt, Rodon , Danish and Montas will all be established pitchers wreakng havoc in either the pen or rotation. Anything the Sox do now is a bridge or road to becoming that team with the killer rotation.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 02:10 PM) So your starting rotation is the 2 solid lefties, Noesi, Danks, and Bassitt, and you're telling me you think you have a competitive roster? Because I don't. If you're going to sign Martinez for a huge price, you better go into the season with a rotation that can win the division, because signing Martinez and going with a rotation like that sounds like wasting Martinez's probably best remaining season to me. Did you conveniently leave out Rodon because I think the Sox have him up for at least 75% or the year. He has just as good of a chance at the starting rotation as Bassitt does. If I had to guess Hahn will probably dip back into the SP reclamation project again hoping he can get some value . If it makes you feel any better put Bassitt in the pen and add Rodon to the starters. A great roation isn't necessary to make it to the post season if the pen can protect some leads and your defense played well . Is it me or is finding good defenders who can hit decently getting as hard as finding a good catcher ?

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 09:58 PM) Moncada is a guy that would contribute for many years to come and while in his prime, unlike VMart. VMart is a guy a team signs thats one piece away from winning and the Sox are much more a way from winning than that. VMart alone does not come close to making the Sox a contender for 2015 and it would seem the Sox will not be a contender anyway for reasons already mentioned in the thread. Just too many holes... Rasmus at one year makes sense since his numbers were down in 2014 he can rebuild his value, the Sox get a LH bat for LF and if Rasmus hits well, likes the south side and the Sox like him than yes an extension is a realistic possibility. I agreed with what soxfan wrote about Rasmus which showed in my response to his post. I left VMart out of my response purposely because I'm sure soxfan had seen other comments against the idea of VMart so I'm sure he knows how I feel about VMart. The idea I liked and complimented him on was Rasmus. It just seems that you flipflopped your position from the Your Offseason plan thread where you thought the Sox could contend in 2015. You keep saying VMart alone doesnt make the Sox a contender but who the heck is saying just sign VMart and no one else ? So VMart, a proven high quality ML hitter would be worth less than some unproven 19 yr old who if you sign for a certain amount you'd just double the salary in penalties ? Don't like wasting money on an old proven hitter then you should hate wasting $30-40M on penalties . Soxfan wanted Rasmus with Martinez in the lineup that was his scenario. Maybe without Martinez in the lineup he doesn't want Rasmus on a 1 yr deal or at all since if Rasmus proves his worth he'd certainly want the big bucks to follow . He'd be insane not to. However I'm 99.999 % sure he won't be signing a 1 yr deal with anyone considering its a huge risk given that if he sucks again he will be worth even less. And I'm still waiting on who you think is good quality. Maybe we can sign them all for 1 yr and Hahn can start from scratch for 2016 again.

Pretty poll-arizing topic. I was pretty sure Soxtalk would be about 50/50 on acquiring VMart but it vexes me somewhat that I've already seen posters say throw huge amounts of cash at Yoan Moncada, a guy who isnt likely to contribute for 2+ years and that's being conversative. You'd be tying up possible VMart money ( or more) into an unknown while every year that passes our best players best years get wasted. Maybe the Sox should just sit on their hands or just sign reclamation projects and expensive prospects and hope for the best ? Hahn's got the payroll flexibility and he going to try and make a splash whether or not some of you are afraid to get back up on the donkey after it kicked you. Rasmus at 1 year makes no sense. Even if he signed for 1 year which in itself is pretty doubtful it would be to re-enter free agency not to work out an extension. And if you agree with what Soxfan wrote there did you miss that he had Martinez in our lineup along with Rasmus ? StRoostifer I just don't understand your whole position. You don't think JR will pony up any money for decent free agents,you don't think the Sox have the minors in good enough shape to make trades. You want Rasmus on a one year deal so he can leave the next year. Yet you have confidence in Hahn to make the Sox a contender in 2016 . So how are the Sox going to fil your 6 holes by 2016 to give them any chance to compete unless they spend some of their surplus money this year ? I know you said fill the holes with good quality but that is pretty vague . Where is this good quality and how do you get it ? Name some players who don't have the baggage I mentioned earlier ( bad defense, too old, high price tag, too young , injuries , coming off a bad yr. ; hell, coming off a great year is considered baggage around here).

This was on fangraphs a month ago http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/yoan-moncada-game-theory/ I think a few of you are getting excited prematurely . A lot is still left to how this plays out .He's 19 and it could mean big bucks for a prospect. For anyone who balked at how much money Rodon got imagine Rodon money muliplied by 10.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 02:10 PM) So your starting rotation is the 2 solid lefties, Noesi, Danks, and Bassitt, and you're telling me you think you have a competitive roster? Because I don't. If you're going to sign Martinez for a huge price, you better go into the season with a rotation that can win the division, because signing Martinez and going with a rotation like that sounds like wasting Martinez's probably best remaining season to me. I did first say sign a starter . I said if you're going to skimp anywhere it's the rotation only because its the most likely place on the team where it's possible we already have the pieces to contend if all goes right . We're building a team that can contend not the odds on favorite to win the World Series next year. VMart is one way to go another is Scherzer or Lester and bullpen pieces , I think both get bigger contracts than VMart.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 01:40 PM) But out of those, only 2 of them were what you just said was the waste of money - trying to be cheap. Keppinger was bought coming off a career year under the assumption that guys who don't strike out a lot don't fall off a cliff in their 30s (where have I heard that recently)?. Downs was a veteran brought in for fair money under the assumption that guys in their late 30s don't fall off a cliff when they have certain projectable skills. Both of those guys were guys brought in at fair market value to fill an immediate need. Belisario and Paulino was trying to be cheap and bring in guys who could improve, and yes, they did not work, while on the other hand Putnam and Noesi did. And just to note, out of the 4 guys you listed, the majority of the money was taken up by the veteran guys brought in for fair market value to be immediate contributors. No , do not say VMart and Keppinger in the same sentence. It's so easy to say no with the age factor but I dare you to find me someone affordable ( your sure thing LH LF ) without a recent bad year, bad defense , bad injury history, PED suspension or no power who is available.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 01:19 PM) No thanks to Victor. If the Sox were a bat short of contention, then yes but they have too many holes to fill. So when do you contend ? How do you fill holes by doing nothing or spending on even riskier FA's or trading for the same types. They all have their baggage whether its, injuries or coming off bad seasons , or age. Get VMart , see if you can pry Michael Saunders from Seattle sign a starter and a closer put Bassitt in the pen or let him and Rodon start . VMart, fixed bullpen and a cheap Saunders seems doable . If you skimp anywhere let it be the starting pitching and look to build value with Danks, Noesi and Bassitt.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 09:07 AM) Good addition, but a bad idea if we are talking about 4 years, probably even at three. Damn you answered already . Can you pls make this a poll with a simple I want Victor or I do not want Victor choice? I swore I did it right but screwed it up. Any mod/god please fix .

Soxtalk seems split on whether or not VMArt would be a good addtion. So here's your chance to make your opinions known. Of course you might have caveats depending on contract length and dollars so feel free to voice them. I will start with Victor at 3 yrs I can handle but 4 years is too long. Of course there's a chance at his age that his production falls. It probably will considering just how good he was last year but he's still better than most options. I want the Sox to get another ring and that might not happen untl we get another legit bat with Abreu ( other additions ,of course ,also must be made)

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 28, 2014 -> 02:17 PM) I was curious about this, and it turns out it isn't really the case. 2010 Rookie ball he rocked right out of the gate 2011 skipped to A+, was good in April, very good in May, down in June, Big up in July, down somewhat in August. So he was just plain streaky. 2012 in AA it was sort of true - he was bad in April, better in May, very good in June then back down for the rest of the year 2013 he was decent in April and strong in AA by May and held it, and actually did quite well his first few weeks in AAA before falling apart slowly as the summer went on 2014 in AAA it was certainly true - he got better each month through a monster July, then came back down in August and really suffered in MLB I'd say if there is a pattern there, it is that he falls off late in the season generally. He may have been just plain tired in September. The very slow starter thing hasn't really been there, until 2014. There seems to be another pattern also though it may not support Baltas claim entirely . His May was always stronger than his April . Didn't look anything up. Just going by what you said. This might give the impression that he starts slow then gains momemntum.

http://www.southsidesox.com/2014/10/25/706...hite-sox-career Leave it to SSS to mourn the loss of Sierra properly.