CaliSoxFanViaSWside

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 03:36 PM) I received an e-mail a few minutes ago and confirmed it with the local newspaper that Walt Williams, who played for the Sox from 1967-1972 passed away Saturday at a hospital in Brownwood, Texas where he lived. He was 72. Walt was always generous with his time when I'd call him, always funny, laughing and full of life. So sorry to get this news. He was a tough player who always hustled and gave it his best. It's been a bad year for the White Sox family to be sure. Here is the link to my interview with Walt if you want to learn more about him and his career: http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/in...=11&id=3909 Mark Great interview. What a good guy with a great attitude. The little man with the big heart. RIP Walt.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Jan 26, 2016 -> 10:26 AM) No one outside of the White Sox holds value in Johnson because he's not a sure thing to be a major leaguer. No one will roll dice in on him unless the ask is a bag of balls. We need him to be successful so we bias towards him being the pitcher he was last year, and not the one who nearly washed out. Everyone else just sees risk. How are you so sure that everyone just sees risk in EJ ? In sports it's always "what have you done for me lately " ? His 2015 was pretty good. Great season in the minors and not overwhelmed once brought up. His struggles and what he did to overcome them from last year are well documented thanks to Tom Verducci. With the cost of starting pitching going through the roof I think it's safe to say Ej has plenty of value as a ML ready 4th or 5th starter. There is built in risk for many 5th starter types .

I wanted Jackie Bradley, Jr. when he couldn't hit at all in the majors his 1st 2 years. But noooo the Sox didn't get him and his bat is starting to catch up to his fielding now and probably nearly impossible to get him. Probably starting for Red Sox now yes ? Also might as well mention Brock Holt too. I wanted him for a few years also. It wouldn't be the off season if I didn't mention him. I just don't see the Sox making a trade unless it's a big one with current 25 man roster guys going. Melky, Robertson, Avi, Saladino , Sanchez, Erik Johnson, any reliever. I'd add Danks and LaRoche ,just in case, cuz ya never know. We all love those 3 ways.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 03:44 PM) I'm getting this same feeling and it's making me sick to my stomach. If he starts 2016 as our RF, then I want Rick Hahn to be accountable if/when he fails. You don't tell your fanbase you're serious about competing and then trot out one of the worst players in baseball last year at a position where numerous upgrades were available. Until Avi learns how to field & run, the chances of him becoming a productive OF are slim to none. And quite frankly, it's nearly impossible to coach up a lack of instincts & stupidity. I think he needs to come to spring training weighing at least 25 lbs. less .

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2016 -> 11:32 AM) These were my thoughts, exactly. Me too .I was one of the few who tried to say all his inconsistency , OBP and work ethic was overblown by his less than humble nature , the backlash that always comes when discussing a polarizing player, and the fact his numbers with RISP was fantastic and OBP wasn't much of a necessity when a guy makes habit of driving in big runs. I also spoke of combining him and Abreu to form the Cuban Connection and make the Cell a big fiesta when they started really rolling. You can't buy that kind of publicity and it would draw attention to the Sox like nothing else could have.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 24, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) Its fine to have the opinion but my response was more to the other post that said "its good to hear that he is doing this". JR does not have to do this nut its his philosophy for the good of baseball. He believes that they should have rules to keep baseball from being the league where the most money wins most of the time. There are individual exception like the sox and royals. He does this more for the game than for being buddies with Selig. I don't think he really cares if the fans complain about the actual contracts. They are going to build a team within the confives of the rules. I dont know for sure but he has stated repeatedly that they put most of the profits into the team. I don't doubt that they keep some but I don't think they maximize profits either. Your right they havent done well with positional players from the minors. But I see a difference in the organization since RH took over. Whether that is just him or the whole organizarion is changing is debatable as KW always said at the beginning of each off season he would present JR with multiple scenarios, including a total rebuild. I see progress ans im willing to see it play out. Thad Bosley seems to be a pretty well informed poster. I wasn't quite sure what he meant when he said " it's good to hear that he is doing this". I have to think he knows a little bit of the history of Reinsdorf and Selig's relationship because there are flaws that he is usually quite adept at discussing. Yes its a hardcore opinion but not of the meathead variety at all. Which is kind of where I go from time to time. I want to be informed before I draw my conclusions. I've probably forgot more then I remember about how Reinsdorf has operated over the years. Much of the complaining is because we bemoan our own fate as Sox fans and the miserable history of the team whether it was The Black Sox or Disco Demolition or midgets, or changing the uniform so many times or the lack of ever having had any kind of sustained winning. It's not something we can change or turn on and off . The Sox might've had more position player talent if they had drawn names from a hat than they have actually trying to pick the best talent. That's how sad its become. I'll rant once in a while because its just hard to see all the failures and accept it without forming opinions . Oh and sorry I just can't buy into the idea of Reinsdorf as the Mother Theresa of Baseball that you put forth because someone did a terrible job of making sure the rule breakers would regret breaking the rules .

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 24, 2016 -> 08:51 AM) That article is not being fair at all to the Sox. Gordon wanted to stay in KC, Cespedes wanted to stay in NY, Upton didn't want to play for the Sox and the Sox had no chance at Heyward with his roughly 200M price tag. The Cards and Nat's are rumored to have offered more than the cubs but Heyward chose the cubs. What else could the Sox have done, lol? The problem is not that the Sox were unable to sign one of those four outfielders, the problem is that Sox fans assumed that the Sox would sign one of those outfielders. Bad assumption. I usually enjoy Margalus' writings but the whiny undertone in the article is a bit much. I understand the frustration but fans need to keep their expectations in perspective too. I didn't expect the Sox to sign any of them because well its the Sox. But when you start hearing the Sox connected to all 3 of them at some point you start to want to believe . You want to gladly eat your own words of doom and gloominess. Hey maybe the Sox will surprise me for once. Even the national guys like Rosenthal held onto the belief that the Sox would get one of the 3 for a long time. Then at the end he ( Margalus) takes a jab at the Sox inability to find position talent by saying "hey if we hear the Sox didn't like them then that makes me like them." And it is a well deserved jab. The fans have to keep their expectation low because we know the Sox don't operate like a big city team but a small market team ? That's cool but have fun getting anyone into the ballpark then.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 24, 2016 -> 07:45 AM) The day someone can prove that he is maximizing profits as opposed to putting back into the team is the day that any of this non-sensical complaining makes. You say you think he is cheap and doesn't care about winning. You can say he alienates fans with his attitude. But its all opinonand not proof. Odds are its somewhere in the middle. Its a business they are allowed to make a profit for the board of investors. Of course it's my opinion. What else am I supposed to think. Lots of teams go way over budget and accept the penalties for doing that because they want the talent Why is it Reinsdorf HAS to play by the rules when quite a few don't ? The proof is in the pudding. One of 3 teams not to have ever signed a player over $70M ' check. Never has gone over international signing pool money , check . Sure he's allowed to make a profit because that's the goal of any business even though sports teams are somewhat different animal. If you or them want to stop the complaining then do something the fans can get behind.His loyal henchmen failures to recognize impact positional talent on the minor or major league level is killing every supposed plan they make up . The long run of failure especially in the minors couldn't just be bad luck. The fact is for a long time Reinsdorf didn't want to put much money into the minor leagues. I haven't seen it change too much now that we have an international pool also. When the Sox manage to get into the playoffs 2 years in a row under Reinsdorf's Rule it'll be the first time ever in Sox history. I know the failures before him have nothing to do with him but great we got 1 World Series win during his reign but all this sustained success BS talk has flys buzzing around it.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 04:55 PM) What's going on with Alexei Bell and Yadiel Hernandez? Will either be available before the season? Could be worth taking a look see. Well we will see if the Sox have any intentions of spending money when some of the big boys are out of it. It'll be like the free agent class this year .And we know how that went. The Sox have never shown any indication of going over the allotment for the high end talent. I don't expect that to change. The Sox just do not outbid teams for the best talent available on any level. Abreu fell in their lap basically and they probably hoped the same thing would happen with any of the big 3 but hoping most of the 29 other teams disappear is no way of doing business. I know the Sox have hired different personnel lately for some of these things but I'm pretty convinced they will have to work within budgetary constraints and do the best they can within that framework. Reinsdorf has always benefited and maximized profits by just playing by the rules whereas other teams exploit the loopholes. He's always been a good boy with his buddy Bud Selig because bucking the system made trouble for the commish but mostly because it fit his agenda for limiting spending.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 07:28 AM) Many of us believe if the Sox don't sign one of the big 3 OFer's ( Gordon, Upton, Cespedes) that signing Frazier will have been a waste. Needless to say signing one of the BIG 3 will be the richest contract ever given by the Sox. How likely is that ? Would it be more likely the Sox pursue a guy like Fowler to play CF and who's OBP is very high to create a 1-2 OBPunch at the top of the order ? It would mean better OF defense but he's not even close to being the kind of impact bat Upton or Cespedes are. Still Eaton and Fowler at the top of the order would certainly give guys like Abreu and Frazier many opportunities to get RBI's. Maybe Fowler takes a 3 year contract and then the Sox have more room to sign that RH starting pitcher they have been reportedly seeking or add another BP piece like Albers. Or both. Would this kind of back up plan be acceptable or seen as a 1/2 measure ? Said signing one of the big 3 wasn't very likely because the contracts would be too rich and called the re-signing of Albers. That makes me 4 for 4 . Fowler and a RH starter and I'm 6 for 6 . Also spawned all the copycat threads that are going on now that Cespedes ship has sailed. I never really advocating signing Fowler since I'm not a huge fan of giving up any more draft choices but I can still see it happening. I just won't want it as badly as I wanted Cespedes. Blast away at what a dick I am if you must.

I'd like to add one more thing that Mike (Eminor) missed when talking about pitch framing since I've made a nuisance of myself in the past about it. The umps also play a key role. Perhaps the strike zone is called tighter than it used to be but catchers know which umps have certain tendencies to call the high strike, low strike ,inside and outside corners and they roll with it and hope the pitcher can take advantage of it. I was listening to LaTroy Hawkins tell a story on MLBN where he said to Greg Maddox ," You know those pitches aren't strikes don't you " ? and Maddux replied along the lines of I can't help it if I can hit that spot 8 out of 10 times and you can do it only 4. Meaning if you can do it that consistently the ump will give it to you. Another thing I was watching about Livan and Orlando Hernandez defection from Cuba and when Livan was pitching in the ALCS or World Series and the ump behind the plate was calling everything away off the plate a strike. So Charles Johnson ,the catcher ,goes out to the mound and says to Livan, "I think we just need to stay away away away." Livan agrees and ends up with 15K's .That kind of thing has a domino effect. Hitters see it being called a strike and they end up saying "well now I have to swing at that pitch" and when the pitcher gets them swinging at it he goes even further outside. Being an intelligent pitcher is an art form that involves the catcher and the ump and the pitchers ability to take advantage of his reputation and change a plan when the circumstances call for it.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) Short of giving him 5/110 of guaranteed money, the Sox probably didn't have much of a chance after the Mets entered the picture. I'm glad he's not coming to the Sox. I think Jackson and Desmond on short term contracts have a chance to work out. Bring in hungry, high character guys and hope they and some other guys (Cabrera and LaRoche) can bounce back while Eaton, Frazier and Abreu can put up All-Star seasons. The Sox probably aren't making the playoffs this year, but if they're trying to re-create 2005 in 2016, they would at least have a shot with a couple more veterans. I'm not sure even 5/110 guaranteed would have got it done now. His original demands were 6/150. He seemed really intent on getting $25M AAV and i figured all along he's end up back in the NL somewhere to feast on the pitching of all those teams rebuilding. That way he increases his chances of having another big year and getting that $25M AAV after the opt out for longer terms.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:29 PM) Sure would be nice if there was some young breakout potential at positions like SS, 2B and RF. Maybe a few flaws, but potential to turn a negative into a positive. Some ideas: The Dodgers have a bunch of OF, why not grab Trayce Thompson? He's at least a good defender. They also have Micah Johnson, might be useful to get a LH bat in a lineup that feature Adam LaRoche as its premier LH bat. Also, Oakland's got this SS, not so good with the glove but he can hit. I think his name is Semien? Don't forget we need some RH pitching depth and they have this Montas kid.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:10 PM) That would be beautiful. Trading with the Rockies is like trading for a guy you know is on steroids but won't be when you get him. OTOH he does have a hot wife.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:26 PM) Mixed feelings for me on this one. If the deal is roughly as reported, Cespedes got just about the fair market price many experts predicted, but with the asterisk being he'll likely opt out after 1 year if he rolls out a Herculean 2016 to match his second-half of 2015. For players who like where they're at (see Alex Gordon), you need to knock out the champion (incumbent), not just beat them on points. The Sox PROBABLY offered something similar and didn't knock him out. And it sure seems that NO OTHER TEAMS tried to snag him with an above-market offer either (the Nats supposed 5 year offer supposedly have substantial deferred dollars and not likely a 1 year opt out). Bottom-line sure seems to be nobody tried too hard to lure him away from the Mets. Personally, playing armchair GM, if I'm Hahn, I stretch to lure him away. In my opinion, the upsides of Cespedes is worth taking on risks. In theory, he solves a lot of problems and brings a dash of fear into the lineup. And we've failed the same way so often before. Maybe you fail again, but let's try something different (and to me, failing with Dunn and LaRoche are very different animals than any possible failure with Cespedes). I hope Cespedes destroys the Cubs all season long as well, because: (1) duh, I can't stand the Cubs (more accurately, Cubs fans); and (2) I think that Cespedes might be a monster and I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox brain trust humbled a bit by not picking the low hanging fruit. No contradictions from me -- I think the Sox decision makers do things the right way, analyze their baseball decisions, and run a professional and measured business; unfortunately, they rock in assessing quality pitching, but they are arguably horrible in analyzing the offensive game. This where I am and the "horrible" is doing a lot of damage.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 07:29 PM) With good international scouting it might. Regardless of Abreu status, cespedes just isn't worth the chance. Unless it comes at a no more than 4 guaranteed deal. And I say he is. Agree to disagree. BUY THE GOOD MEAT !

Very comprehensive piece. Love how you pointed out how the defensive values are so weird and drawing too many conclusions about them is subjective. You didn't just pick a side you took the time to point out every angle. Very well written also . Must have proof read it thoroughly.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 06:29 PM) Yep, Alexei Ramirez or Kang last offseason..although even then, franchise altering is pushing the definition. We've been so successful (except Dayan) in Cuba we're now often priced out of that market. The one guy I really wanted last year at this time was Hector Olivera, and the Dodgers simply outbid everyone. It will be interesting to see how well the Koreans picked up by Balt and the Twins do...but, once again, franchise altering? Unlikely. I know I am pushing the envelop on Cespedes but how often do we hear the Sox are on the right path ? One World Series win in 100 years is a lot of right paths gone bad. The thing about Cespedes is he is EVERYTHING the Sox should want, power, defense speed and a marketing dream. You think season ticket packages went up last year because the Sox signed a bunch of FA ? Imagine signing Cespedes now. Hopes and season tickets or at least total attendance definitely increase. Cespedes with Abreu and it becomes a Southside Fiesta ! Not only does winning baseball bring fans back but everyone loves a good party. I hate to bring the Cubs into this but let's face it they have good attendance even in down years because it's party atmosphere there even if the place is a dump. Bienvenidos ! Welcome to the White Sox Party Win ,eat ,drink and be merry ! P.S. Buy the Good Meat !

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 05:57 PM) I agree they have been settling for the second tier FA. If RH is under this budget constraint, the other way to go is to create less dependency on FA. Now no team can forego all FA. But they produce or trade for proven MLB players. Then they can go out and get the one FA to put them over the top. I just don't agree that this scenario is now. Cespedes is not a superstar you sign to put you over the top. He is currently the best option, but not a franchise changing player. Have you seen what franchise changing players are going for now ? Over $200M ! Cespedes at less than his original expected price is about the most we can hope for. But still waiting on some franchise changing player just for around what we paid Abreu ($68M ). Hey it can happen again if it happened once right ?

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:23 AM) That is the only "potential" downside to signing Yoenis for five years, that he "might" not be as productive towards the end of the contract. Meanwhile, for the next two to three years, the window in which we'd like to compete, you get a 30 HR, 100 RBI guy in the middle of your lineup and a substantial improvement in the outfield defense. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED! And we don't have to give up any prospects or talent on the roster, nor sacrifice a draft pick to get him. He is the best option to fill one of our gaping holes in the outfield. If it means tacking on those two last years, then just do it, for godssake. He "might" just continue to be productive in those years as well, given he'll only be 33/34. Who knows! Let's worry about that in '19 and '20. For now, let's follow through with what I thought was the stated mandate which is to "maximize" the window of opportunity this team has right now to win in these next few years. Yoenis Cespedes provides us the best chance to do so among our existing options. We are singing in the same choir.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) Obviously it was a reply to Cy Acosta...if we can't talk about the risks of standing pat that goes along with the assumption that Cespedes isn't worth the attendant risk, then what's the point of discussing Cespedes at all anymore? Great, Cespedes...too risky! So then what? Please explain what move doesn't carry a downside. Cali has been arguing about Cespedes for weeks and nobody has rebutted his point that we don't have enough proven run producers...highlighting that fact with his RBI and RISP (which will inevitably be described as luck or random or anomalies) numbers but I have yet to see a good response other than just a string of personal character attacks on Cespedes from shadowy sources. Thank you Caulfield and personally I think that was one of you better posts. Everything you talked about was related to how much the Sox need Cespedes . Just too much failure lately in a lot of areas. The failures mostly being in the "settling" type of FA who ends up crippling the Sox anyway because they all sucked . High end FA means less likely to suck right away . The Sox are "settlers" . That DirecTV commercial gets credit for me calling the Sox "settlers". They settle for leftovers and like hungry dogs they fight over the scraps. Then they find out the scraps have worms and the dog dies. Lesson learned buy the good meat. Maybe I won't argue for Cespedes any more using stats and logic. From now on I should probably just say . BUY THE GOOD MEAT !

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:48 AM) Compete, yes. Give everything away for an "all-in," no. The philosophy is to continue to improve the team while not sacrificing the future. none of the prospects traded away were possible impact players. He kept the really good ones and traded away "pieces." They may be MLB players but nothing of consequence. In return, he received proven MLB players which will help the team. Nothing he did will hurt the future and will help in the present. Minor league depth is not as important as impact prospects and proven MLB talent. Granted it's a risk just like signing FA to long term deals. However, with the financial constraints placed upon him, he cannot afford to have deadweight contracts on the books for an extended period of time. That's why signing FA to the longterm deals isn't a good play here. We just differ too much in regarding the future. You seem to know the future . You've repeatedly said his moves will not hurt the future. whereas I'm just dealing with how he's done in the present. You know the future that's great but sorry you don't. The present isn't good . That's what I know and so far there isn't much of a future to speak of without depth in the minors and players with only 1 or 2 years arriving via trade.

QUOTE (SoxSteve @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:42 AM) Good points but disagree with a few things. First of all the players we gave up for Shark didn't fit the Sox good at all. Semien is a nice player but his defense will NEVER be good enough for short IMO. The problem with the Sox is we have very good pitching with very bad defense. If your going to be a good pitching team and that seems the direction we are going in with a Sale, Q, Rodon, Fullmer Johnson rotation i think it defeats the purpose to have a Semien at short. I would rather sacrifice hitting for fielding at certain positions when your pitching is good. That's why a Anderson -Lawrie combo doesn't excite me. I'd much rather have a great hitting outfield with a great DH hitting and sacrifice some of that with defense on your infield. And i don't consider Phegley and Bassitt prime pieces to the White Sox future. Obviously the trade didn't work out with Shark being horsehit but i don't think we mortgaged any of our future with that deal. That being said we have a disjointed team right now with the below average defense in both the outfield and infield with above average pitching. How we solve that is anyone's guess. Hello welcome. One thing you'll notice about me, well , maybe not , no one else has, is that when it comes to minor leaguers I do not try to predict the future. I only hope for the very best for them and look at the high side. After all I am a Sox fan . No sense for my personal well being dwelling on the down side of youngsters. You on the other hand used an absolute like NEVER which I cannot accept. You may end up being right or wrong but NEVER doesn't work for me because things change with young people because they learn and grow. Maybe Semien doesn't play SS for the Sox , maybe he plays 2nd base , maybe he DH's maybe 3rd base. If the guy was truly terrible at SS how does he end up being given such a high ranking by the MLB network analysis that takes into account every facet of his game with high end statistics ?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:32 AM) Jeez. Last offsesason it was Eminor and I vs. You, chitownsportsfan and Rock Raines on Avi. Then I would go to war with Dick Allen saying Gordon Beckham sucks too. People are all like "I just want the offseason to be over" but the alternative isn't great, hah. Last offseason he deserved a chance . He had that chance . He failed and now is not the time to be patient with him. He needs coaching and perhaps he is better off in the minors this year because the window is shrinking and question marks can't be addressed at the ML level . The Sox need proven production.

Hard to say even if you use any advanced metric because not only have the Sox changed but so have other teams. Will the Sox starting pitching be better ? Defense ? Relief Pitching ? I think it's a given the offense should be better even much better with Frazier and Cespedes and the upgrade at catcher and 2nd base. Last year the Sox played more 1 run games than any team .They were 29-30 in 1 run games. That might suggest with just a little more offense and the same pitching that record in itself could be much better. Cespedes has always driven in runs and hit with RISP. He would be insurance in case Frazier doesn't transition well from the NL .Together Abreu and Cespedes would be polarizing and dynamic . There's no doubt at all in my mind that Cespedes would hit and hit well . He'd also upgrade the OF defense and add another fast runner to the lineup . He also moves all the worst players down a notch on the roster. So LaRoche plays less, Avi plays less etc. I think at his best he's a huge difference maker as he showed with the Mets last year. I've seen projections for him from around 3 to 4.4 bWAR . All I know is it sure would be fun to find out the difference he would make. Winning is so much more fun than .500 or less.