hitlesswonder

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 06:07 PM) Haha -- yep, the Mets are going to give this up for a little more than three months of Mark Buehrle. We'll be lucky to get two of those. Getting one would be lucky. Minaya wouldn't give up Milledge for 4 seasons of Joe Blanton. 3 months of Buehrle is worth a lot less.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 08:16 PM) well Aaron Cunningham is a four-tool player who is what you would call a grinder. Numbers-wise and developemental-wise Cunningham is the better player, so that part may look bad. But KW has only been burned by one trade really in his tenure, so you have to give him the benefit of the doubt here. But Cunningham was one of my favs and I think this one bites us. Cunningham is a 20/20 CF who plays good D and Richar is a solid looking 2B. KW has been burned in more than 1 trade, but Byrnes is a guy that burned him in one of the worst deals of his tenure. My take is that Cunningham is unlikely to be an impact player in the bigs. Richar, a 24-year old putting up pedestrian numbers in the PCL is even less likely to make an impact. Planning on him being the starting 2B in 2008 doesn't bode well. It's shaping up to be a historically bad season.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 15, 2007 -> 09:08 AM) No formal deal was ever proposed. Another thing on Gio; wasn't his value higher when we traded him the first time compared to when we traded for him? It's like selling your google stock for $40 a share, then one year later paying $55 for that same stock. It could be worth more in the future, but as soon as you made the buy back you took a loss. Yes, Gonzalez got exposed in AA Reading with PHI. He had a 4.66 ERA was giving up 5 BB per 9 innings pitched and 24 HRs in 154 innings. I'm not that excited about him putting up good numbers while repeating AA in a pitchers park. If he had his current stats in Charlotte it would be a different story. John Sickels rates him as a B prospect for a reason. People shouldn't confuse Gio with Phil Hughes or Homer Bailey.

QUOTE(Allsox @ Jun 15, 2007 -> 08:34 AM) Granted, the team isn't playing well at all but it NEVER sucks to be a White Sox fan And no, North didn't bring up any good pts. Telling the pitching coach his team is going to "lay down" in the next series is stupid, moronic and completely baseless, just like his show. Lack of hitting always make a team look like lifeless. They're trying hard but it just isn't working this yr. And this yr's team is far from embarassing. Try any of the teams after the '85 season until '90 for 100% embarassment. I agree completely. North is a hack. It's the easiest thing in the world to say a team has quit -- especially in baseball where you can't just hit someone harder to show you are trying. The Sox are simply a bad team. As you say, any team that doesn't hit looks lifeless. I'm sure that the 4 or 5 members of the Charlotte Knights that appear for the Sox any given night are trying as hard as they can. I'm sure Thome isn't laying, and I doubt that Iguchi and Dye are dogging it in their walk years. North is just doing his Mariotti routine to grab some ratings, and it's a poor way to treat Cooper, a guy that is, I believe, contractually obligated to appear on WSCR. Someone here posted that nothing North said lacked validity? Whatever, IMO, nothing Cooper said lacked validity.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) It's a hitters league in the PCL too. The average OPS is just a hair under .800. In the IL, the average OPS is a hair over .700. This isn't a fluke either. It's like that every year. There are a ton of small parks and and some high-altitude stops on that circuit. I don't see how the Sox could trade Buehrle for Clement as the centerpiece. I know he's had injuries, but his offensive production has simply been bad. I don't see how you can project him to hit in the big leagues based on what he's done so far. On the other the Sox "scout the player, not the numbers" so what do I know?

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 10:50 PM) So are you saying the Sox don't need another slow, one dimensional player whose one dimension is power to come in and whiff 100+ times per year? Bob He has 2 dimensions -- he gets on base as well. He's actually sort of Thomesque. If the Sox had any real hope of salvaging the season, I'd take a .900 OPS from a LF butcher given the current Sox offense (worst in baseball). But trading for a FA-to-be makes absolutely no sense given the glaring need to rebuild a terrible talent base.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 10:29 AM) No, the Indians didn't suck. They lost. There's a difference. I don't know how they lost so many games last year. It's a mystery to a lot of people. "Suck" is what we're doing now, what the Nationals do, what the Royals do. Lose is what the Yankees are doing, and what the Indians did. Big difference. That's exactly right. Last year's Indians were a much more talented team than the 2007 Sox. They had lots of excellent young players. The Sox have exactly 0 good young players. The Sox right now are on their way to becoming the Tigers before Dombrowski took over or the Royals. Look at the players the Sox have for next season and what they have in minors -- 2008 is looking like a historically bad season.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 09:37 AM) Why in the hell do we want to trade Mark within the AL? Because it doesn't matter? The Sox are years away from contending again, so it really doesn't matter where he goes. And anyway he will be a FA at the end of the season and then a Cardinal shortly thereafter.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 09:28 AM) He's basically thrown guys right into the fire, and when they fail at first(most young players are going to fail right away) then they basically get thrown under the bus. And it seems like it's taken a whole week before he's got tired of Fields. Ozzie hasn't exactly proven that he can be patient with young players and if we're going to rebuild, he's going to have to learn. Every time Ozzie has given up on a player he's been right. If he gives up on Fields, I'm guessing he'll be right about Fields as well. Ozzie was the only person with the Sox who thought Terrero was better than Anderson and he's been right about that.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:42 PM) Well...OK. But my point was that guys like Fields are under Sox control for 6 years with the pre-arb years being very cheap. If Terrero miraculously has a great year, the Sox will need to bid against other teams to bring him back. And they would be laying out several million dollars and 2 or 3 years betting that his performance wasn't a fluke. So Terrero is not the same as the other players on the list in terms of value to the Sox. So, I was wrong about this. Since Terrero has under 6 years MLB time, he is under Sox control for at least 2 more years.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:16 PM) Yes PK and Dye were on that team, but we did play small ball. How did we score the only run in Game 4 of the WS? Slap single. Bunt gets him to 2nd. Grounder gets him to 3rd. Base hit up the middle. That was one game. The Sox bunt a lot every year under Guillen (including last year). They haven't much this year cause no one is on base. In 2005 they 200 home runs -- 5th best in baseball. That team had power...

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) I think some are still pissed about Brian Anderson and Brandon McCarthy. I think they were both jokes, but some around here like to blame Ozzie for them being off the team. Also they blame Ozzie for Sean Tracey - it wasn't because Tracey has no talent - it was because Ozzie yelled at him and made him cry. Blah blah blah. So far, Ozzie has been dead right about every prospect he said couldn't play.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:06 PM) Garcia and Carlos Guillen were big time prospects when they were traded. I don't think they were regarding as "A" prospects (something like top 50 in minors). From the St. Louis blog: Now, I know that's just some guy posting something on the intertube, but my point was that Buehrle isn't Johnson. He's not going to bring a package the caliber of Milledge and Pelfrey in return. QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 05:16 PM) Really? Got any examples of hitters who consistently walked once for every 20 abs who improved that in any significant way? I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm just saying, we're not talking about a future star here. Decent average, some pop, no steals potential -- an okay bottom of the order hitter. But when his career's done, .340's gonna be a LONG ways off his career average. A LONG, LONG ways off. Yeah -- I don't buy into "patience can be taught". Very few players seem to learn to take BBs when they don't in the minors.

Hack job. They didn't play small ball in 2005 and Konerko and Dye were on that team. Yeesh.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:53 PM) That is absurd. For a chance to win it all now, many teams would give the White Sox 3 prospects. In truth, players of Buehrle's stature are rarely dealt (see OP), but when they are dealt the returns are huge. there is no way in hell the Sox would get just Reyes and a B-prospect for Buehrle. You could go to any team in baseball near about and get at least two A prospects. I guess we'll find out. Buehrle isn't Randy Johnson, and Randy didn't bring two A grade prospects -- he brought 3 B grade prospects only one of which panned out for Seattle.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:43 PM) Isn't he already like 25 years old? Yep. A college teammate of Mark Prior. Reyes has a 6.08 ERA this season. I think it's time to stop acquiring pitchers for Cooper to "fix". On the other hand, I doubt that the Sox could do better for Buehrle than getting Reyes and another B prospect. I think people here are in for a big disappointment in the return Buehrle brings.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:35 PM) Which shouldn't be a problem. The term prospect is mainly given to guys in the minors and such, but it actually mean the possibility of something, so IMO, anyone could be considered a prospect. Well...OK. But my point was that guys like Fields are under Sox control for 6 years with the pre-arb years being very cheap. If Terrero miraculously has a great year, the Sox will need to bid against other teams to bring him back. And they would be laying out several million dollars and 2 or 3 years betting that his performance wasn't a fluke. So Terrero is not the same as the other players on the list in terms of value to the Sox.

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:06 PM) You can say that again. I can't think of another team that has a worse farm system than the Cards. I can.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 04:18 PM) Luis Terrero should not count as a prospect. True. But none of the Sox prospects are real prospects either. Maybe they'll draft someone in 2008. Right now, I think they a good shot at the number one pick. Seriously.

Terrero is signed to a one year deal, which is one reason why he shouldn't be considered prospect. If you want to see him in the OF next season, the Sox will have to sign him again.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:55 AM) The more I saw of Sweeney, the more he looks like he will be a future #2 or #9 hitter. Great -- a right fielder that has to hit #2 or #9. Another big feather in the cap of the Sox scouting and development teams.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:34 AM) The Vazquez contract is easily movable if it came to that to say his deal is going to keep this team from competing is just asinine. How is Masset being in the rotation going to help this team? Floyd or a 21 year old who's repeating AA in Gonzalez? You've got to be s***ting me. It's funny that Javy Vazquez is actually becoming underrated when Nick Masset is being labeled as the superior starting pitcher. Some of you really need to get over one start in perfect weather conditions against a bad Cubs team, he hasn't shown anything positive out of the pen. If you think Vazquez is mediocre then I can't imagine what you must think of Masset, Floyd and Gonzalez. Contreras on the other hand I agree on. If Vazquez stays healthy and posts 4.5 ERAs the contract isn't that bad. And Kalapse is right I think in saying that it could moved pretty easily. The Contreras contract is a different story. I just don't get all the love for Nick Masset. It'd be great if it worked out, but his numbers right now are not good.I have a hard time believing that starting would transform him into a much better pitcher.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 10:47 AM) Would it really be that horrible to trade Contreras and insert Masset into the rotation? Well, Contreras has a no trade clause, a big contract, and every other major league can see that he simply looks terrible on the mound. So I think he'll be difficult to move. The Sox are likely stuck with that albatross of a contract through 2009. Also, I don't think Masset is very good. He has 4 pitches but little control, his fastball is a mediocre 92 MPH and his WHIP is 1.87 and he has more walks than Ks. If the Sox DL Contreras I'd rather see Floyd called up. QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 11:01 AM) If we put Gio or Floyd into the rotation, it would be a lot more interesting than seeing Contreras throw 87 mph with no command and 1/10th the forkball he used to have. Could it be that Contreras has the first big money contract that KW messed up on? I think Konerko's contract was the first one he messed up on.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 12:36 AM) Or he could just f***ing play the future of the franchise everyday at 3B. He's going to f*** around with Fields for the rest of the year and by the end of the season they still won't know what the f*** they have in Josh. This is exactly why I don't want Ozzie around when the rebuilding starts up, he has a set way of dealing with struggling rookies, play the s***ty vet who can't play worth a lick every other day until the rookie starts to get pissed off then claim he has attitude problems and send him back to AAA. Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and agree with that. I'm not optimistic about Fields, but they have to play him. I mean, it's not like Cintron is even a better player at this point. Even if he were, Williams needs to find out if he can play...what is Ozzie thinking....

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:20 PM) I can't imagine any team giving up that much. Agreed. People should read the St. Louis blog post again...given how much talent costs in the FA market these days no team is going to give up multiple top prospects for 2 months of Mark Buehrle. The St. Louis fans suggestion of 1) Reyes and a B grade prospect or even 2) Ryan Franklin and 2 B grade prospects are pretty close to what I expect the Sox to get back. Let's remember, KW doesn't exactly drive a hard bargain when dumping players in-season (think Durham for Adkins). The Sox MO is to move the player so that they don't get nothing in return (they won't offer arbitration because they don't want to pay extra draft picks) and given that mindset they take lower grade prospects since they feel they have no leverage.