nitetrain8601

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 11:38 PM) So you want us to re-sign an overrated 3rd basemen who outside of one fluke year can't hit, and who has a bad back, just to see the boards get mad? I have a name for people as unwise as you: Cub fans. I think your rooting for the wrong team if this post is serious. As for the answer to the question in this thread: No, hell no in fact. Boras is bad enough, but we have enough problems as is, no need to keep an expensive 3rd basemen with a prospect who very well may be better than him in the wings at his spot. Not to mention a prospect who has proven he can hit MLB pitching. Yes because it would be so entertaining. How come a resigned Crede automatically means I should root for the Cubs? And Crede suffered an injury, to speak on his back as if it was in terrible condition his whole career is stupid and I'm getting sick of it. Yeah, he had a great offensive year in 2006 which if no one remembers correctly is when he played with the bad back all year long and he couldn't take it anymore last year which is why he got it fixed. Up until then, he was improving offensively. I'm not saying Crede needs to be on this team, but it seems like it's life and death with you guys if Fields isn't the starting 3B within the first month of the season. That's what I find funny.

82 wins.

I hope we do resign him just so he could piss off 99% of the board and then watch everyone talk about how we ruined another sure HOF career. LMAO

I don't know why people say Jenks. Yes, he's the best listed of the bunch, but closers in general don't let you as much as you think. Look at the past 15 offseasons and I don't think you'll see that much of a coup for each closer. Position players usually net you more, but not the most. What nets teams the most is starting pitching. Even crappy starting pitching, as long as the guy could eat up innings, you'll see those players get the most in the trade. With that said, Javier Vazquez will net you the most IMHO. His peripherals are great (even when he does suck) and compared to the market today, he's signed at a very reasonable contract.

QUOTE(Want2Repeat @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 08:26 PM) I don't get this. I guess I can live with the notion of Swisher batting leadoff, but how does he start in CF, vs. LF, with BA and Ramirez, who both would play the position better. Why not get Ramirez in this lineup and bat Swisher in an RBI producing position? BTW - Gavin Floyd sucks and KW is insane to hold to the notion that he will somehow be good. I think it means Quentin will start in LF as some have suggested. If BA is starting in LF anyday, Ozzie is an idiot.

QUOTE(almagest @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 07:47 PM) Complain all you want, but we have some genuinely exciting young talent waiting in the wings. Quentin, Anderson, Fields, Richar, and Ramirez all have pretty high ceilings, and even Owens can be useful as a 4 OF/speed off the bench guy. Plus, we have Swisher locked up for a while. Seems like a good core of young players to me. Trading Crede and/or Uribe for nothing is a stupid thing to do. KW is right to hang on to them, especially with the rash of injuries this Spring Training. He's betting on one team getting desperate, and giving up something of genuine value. It's a good risk to take. And if no team bites, what's the problem in keeping Crede & Uribe? It's not like benching either or both of them is going to magically make us win 100 games. The offense will score enough runs. We're going to live and die by pitching, as most teams do. If we can't catch lightning in a bottle again, you can bet we'll find some takers for our veteran talent at the break. And other guys, like Cabrera, we can hang on to until the end of the year and grab some type A or B draft picks. I actually think Kenny did a pretty good job this off-season, especially considering we only won 72 games last year, and pretty much all of his "Plan A" moves didn't work out. One of the most honest posts and just in case I never welcomed you, welcome!

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 08:14 PM) Mmmmm...grinder. I don't see Swisher batting 3rd. I think he'll bat behind Thome, Konerko, and Dye on OD. I'm pretty sure Ozzie already said somewhere that he'll be hitting Thome 3rd.

QUOTE(BaseballNick @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 10:00 AM) The pessimism on this board is getting laughable. And to think, I was a pessimist on this board. Probably the biggest one. Damn, I've been easily surpassed by at least half the posters here.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 11:08 AM) If you believe at all the multiple reports, including at least one directly from Paxson's mouth, Kobe Bryant was never available. The Lakers talked about him because they wanted to placate Kobe, but unless Kobe held out, they were NEVER going to trade him. He was very much available which is why a 3 way deal was in place to obtain him, but the Lakers wanted one more piece from the Bulls which is why it fell apart.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 05:26 PM) Exactly. Fields should be on the team. I love Crede and love his defense, but like Fathom said, if KW and Oz were leaning toward going toward Crede, Josh should have stayed in the outfield. Josh should demand a trade like somebody said, or at least really let the Sox have it in the press. We should have never made the Swisher trade if Crede was to be the third baseman. For fathom, power hitting is even lower than the need for 3b defense. If you don't think this is important for the White Sox, there's something terribly wrong with you. Again, if the Sox had strikeout pitchers, then you could make a case for defense not being as important, but we have a bunch of groundball/flyball pitchers who don't strike anyone out. Even Jenks has said, he rather get a hitter to ground out (which is why he chooses not to throw 100, but more in 94-96mph range) than a strikeout. It's the team's philosophy along with stupid speedy leadoff hitters. Josh is being developed as a 3B because he eventually will replace Crede at that position, next year being the latest. If we do somehow keep Crede beyond, Fields has way more value as a 3B than a LF.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:39 PM) I am going to call you out on this nite. How many times did we get on Crede when he first came up, and talked about how he can't hit and you wanted to stay with him because of his one tool, which was defense. His ass should of been in AAA with the pathetic bat he had for the first few years of his major league existence. It can't be both ways. And let me remind you that Crede wasn't the slick fielding stud you see today. He was guy who couldnt hit, and couldnt field. Well I wasn't on this board until the very end of the Jerry Manuel era, so I don't know what exactly you would be talking about in regards to me defending Crede back then. And also, who was a suitable 3B on this team that was better than him? I can't remember any. Also, Crede accomplished almost everything you can in the minors. If he stunk in the majors, he stunk in the majors, period. Fields hasn't. And again, I'm not saying Crede would be a better overall option if all things were equal. I'm saying right now, he makes the most sense. The most important reason for the Sox to keep Crede at 3B for the time being besides trade value is because this pitching staff heavily relies on its fielders. No one outside of Vazquez is going to strike out a lot of guys. This is why I would advocate for Anderson or Quentin in the OF over Owens as well since Owens doesn't bring anything that special with the wood. QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:39 PM) We sure did a great job of developing McCarthy. Defense in the minors is nothing compared to the majors with regards to the condition of the field, lights, etc. I haven't seen McCarthy done anything in the majors minus two months of work. Fields needs to work on footwork and technique before he even sniffs "lighting or field" which is not a percentage different in the majors. In fact, it would probably be easier to field in the minors because of the dimmer lights. Any way you put it, he needs defensive work and he could gain that in the minors while Crede is here for his last year.

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 04:35 PM) He's better than Crede. And thats the ONLY thing that matters. He has shown better offensive potential than Crede, but over the course of the season, he is nowhere close defensively to Crede and offensively, he hasn't had a full year like Crede. I'm not saying I rather have Crede if all things were equal and I had a choice to pick, I'm saying Crede fits better as of right now and all the people complaining about a move they should've saw a while ago is pretty stupid. Please refer to my edit in my last post.

Nice to see Fields is the next legendary HOF according to this board, following former greats, Jeremy Reed, Royce Ring, and Brandon McCarthy. Honestly, it's only a year and Josh doesn't need to concentrate on his swing, he needs to concentrate on his defense which is something he doesn't need to be in the majors to learn. He could gain experience in AAA for that. I'm so sick of the whining.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Mar 25, 2008 -> 12:13 AM) Yeah, OJ had a lot of hype. He also slid down the rankings as he got older (junior and senior year) because other guys that were considered to have higher ceilings (Beasley, Rose and Gordon) started passing him up. He finished #4 on Rivals. I didn't realize that hype and draft position are the ultimate determining factors of future success . Kobe was also the first perimeter player to ever declare for the draft straight out of high school, was only the second player to declare in recent history, and was in a historically strong draft class. Because of the success of Kobe and Tracy McGrady a guy like Martell Webster went #6 three years ago, who can't hold a candle to those guys. Mayo may be able to handle the ball fairly well, have good quickness, and have a decent jumpshot. So do Jamal Crawford and Larry Hughes among others though, and they're not exactly franchise-changing stars. Kobe is on a different level. At the same age Kobe was averaging 15 a game on about 12 attempts with a 1.25/1 TO ratio in the NBA. That takes a lot more than just pretty good skills, and is quite a bit harder than doing what Mayo did in college (as Gordon and Bayless support to some extent). Really? You're about the only one then. Even in a sub-par rookie season Durant is averaging almost 20 points a game, albiet he has turnover and shot selection issues and plays for an awful team. OJ has the same kind of issues, which isn't a good sign. Durant was an elite gunner in college too, and he's shooting below 30% from behind the arc. Any benefits from improved spacing is negated by the quality of opponents. He's not going to be able to light up second tier guys on lesser schools anymore, and he already struggled a fair amount against most of the better competitiion on the schedule. He's simply not the kind of guy that is going to come in and totally dominate from day 1, his decision making skills still need a lot of work. Yes, he has talent, but so do a lot of college players, and very few of them turn out to be true superstars, possibly none out of this draft class. We'll have to wait and see, right now he just looks far too inefficient and turnover prone to come in and dominate right away, and I'm really not convinced that he's an upgrade over Gordon and Hughes in the short term. I'm sure we've both been wrong before, so I plan on stopping contributions to this thread-jack. Mayo has great quickness, very much on the level of Kobe's. He handles the ball pretty well and his jumper is good, but it's setup by his ability to penetrate and get easy shots. Jamal Crawford should not be thrown in this. He has no feel for the game as he only played 1 year of high school ball and a little more than half a season of college ball before entering the NBA. Hughes his very best season is OJ's worst case scenario. His talent is far above others and his feel for the game is excellent. He's one of the hardest working kids you'll ever know and has that killer instinct. He doesn't want to just beat you, he wants to embarass you and make you not want to play the game ever again.

QUOTE(knightni @ Mar 24, 2008 -> 11:47 PM) I hope that JR has the "cojones" to clean house in the offseason. That includes parting ways with Paxson. I'd give Paxson one more year. He saw what happens when you're reluctant to trade players, even for Kobe who's a bonafide top 5 player ever.

QUOTE(knightni @ Mar 24, 2008 -> 11:32 PM) Yeah. The Bulls have too many marginal projects on their bench as it is. I mean, they've had how many lottery/top 20 picks in the last 12 years? What have they had to show for it; an early playoff exit? Blame the fault that the front office has not fired Tim Floyd's staff still. All the coaches we have are inept. And chances are, the next coach we have will be stuck with this same staff and they'll be lucky if they're able to hire just one of their own guys.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Mar 24, 2008 -> 10:42 PM) Andre was much more raw and on a much better team so his stats weren't that impressive. I would assume the comparison would be to what he is now, which is a pretty solid all-around SG, though he's also on a bad team that's going nowhere. Either way Kobe is a stretch, he'd be doing so much more if he were really on that level and wouldn't be a borderline top-5 pick if he were. Kobe is a once every ten years type player, Mayo can't come close to that yet. He's so "special" that there are two other guys in his class putting up very similar numbers and another player at another position that is playing far better. You were probably one of the same people that said the same thing about Durant last year, weren't you? There's a very big difference between the two leagues, everyone is a lot quicker and stronger and things get a lot more difficult. Even assuming the same level of talent, the 3-point line is two feet farther back, which is just a huge difference. He's barely shooting 40% in college from the arc, I have a really hard time seeing him adjust to that, especially since he's pretty streaky from out there as it is. He simply can't play the same way and be productive, though he'll probably get his numbers. He will have an above average career in the league because he clearly has talent, but there's a very big difference between being a good scorer and being a legit star. You don't remember Kobe's hype coming out of high school, it was a little less than OJ's. In fact, OJ was ahead of Kobe if you compared the two coming out of high school. Both supposedly had maturity problems (Kobe moreso). Kobe wasn't seen as a once in a lifetime player coming out of high school, that's why he wasn't even a top 10 pick. Only difference between Kobe and OJ is that one is taller. They both play the exact same game and both have the exact skillset. And no, I would've taken OJ over Durant last year. Durant IMO is destined to be a quick PF. You put him at SF and you lose out a bit. He needs to bulk up and be able to bang. I also was very down on Jeff Green and Corey Brewer along with Noah. Again, the spacing will help OJ a ton in the NBA. He has a lightning quick first step just like Kobe has. OJ is as legit as there will be. His worst case scenario is being Larry Hughes(at his very best).

Edit Ignore her. Pretend like you're using her just to get to her friend. In fact, get her friends' number, lose it and go ask the girl you like for her friends number. Say you lost it, which is true. The reason why you get it first from her is so when you ask her friend, you don't seem like a stalker. As soon as the girl you like gives it to you, she'll call her best friend to verify if you two are talking to each other. Once it's confirmed, she will get jealous and wonder why you are now trying to get with the friend. Worst case scenario, you end up with her friend.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Mar 24, 2008 -> 06:49 PM) Lottery pick yes, he clearly has talent, and I'm not terribly impressed with this draft so I could even buy top-5. Answer to all of the Bulls problems, no. Not sure where the passing thing comes from though, I've watched a handful of USC games and seen one pass I'd consider impressive. I also haven't seen anything that shows that he's as explosive as Iguodala, though he's definitely above average. Mayo is more like Kobe. And just to let you know, Andre wasn't as good as OJ was in college. As someone who followed OJ through AAU ball, he will be special at the next level. I will bet you $100 he shoots at least 40% his first year and closer to 40% from the 3 point line.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Mar 24, 2008 -> 02:04 PM) I disagree. Why would working on your weaknesses be a waste of time. Josh needs to learn to field his position better and cut down on his K's. What I would like to see in a perfect Sox world is for him to learn another position and Joe C be signed to an extension. Bingo, his power is nice and all, but this team needs more defense, especially with our 3-4-5 pitchers out there. Heck, Buehrle relies on good defense as well. I think people are underrating how important defense is to have out there which is how we ended up with the 2000-2004 teams.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Mar 24, 2008 -> 10:49 AM) Riiiight, two off-guards that shoot a lot, don't create for others, and turn it over at a high rate are totally not comparable. I guess the guys that write the profiles at NBAdraft.net agree with that comparison for no particular reason. About the only real difference is that Gordon shoots more 3's because he is a bit more effective at it, and I guess Mayo does a lot less of the ball (though that's probably more of an experience thing). If anything Gordon was more productive in college at distributing the ball, and he actually played off the ball a lot with Taliek Brown playing the point. You're ripping on Hinrich for holding the ball too long, but what exactly does Mayo do that's so different? Does he not dominate the ball and then try to do something at the end of every shot clock? At least when Kirk does it someone might hit an open jumper, Mayo the best you can hope for is a contested shot the majority of the time. That's not exactly a new thing at USC either, he's been doing that basically his whole career. And yes, USC is better than K-State, that team is totally sub-par outside of Beasley and Walker (who's pretty streaky, and was only considered an elite prospect before the ACL injury). USC has another potential 1st rounder with Jefferson, a solid college big man with Gibson, and two other reasonably capable guards with Hackett and Lewis. Despite that it all basically comes down to whether Mayo converts at a decent rate or not. They were actually a better team last year with Young, Pruitt (2.41 AST/TO ratio in the same system by the way), and Stewart in the backcourt and without Jefferson, which is pretty weird given all the hype with Mayo. I'm still trying to get how you can logically say that a guy with a negative assist/TO ratio in college in any way creates more shots for teammates effectively than a guy that consistently averages over 6 assists in the pros at a ratio well over 2:1. Maybe somewhere down the road he can get better with improved decision making, but he's nowhere close to that now and is always going to create for himself first. Hinrich isn't a great PG by any stretch of the imagination, but at least he actually tries to pass the ball more than 10% of the time. You have the same problem with Hughes and Gordon, they're both always going to look for their shot first, which hurts the offensive flow even worse than Hinrich's over-dribbling. Mayo is going to be an above average scorer, but without drastic improvements to his decision making and passing abilities he's going to end up being a guy that puts up great stats but hurts your team in the long run like Stephon Marbury or Jamal Crawford. Realistically there isn't that much difference between him and Larry Hughes, which isn't exactly a good thing given his shooting percentages and the records of the various teams on his resume and the fact that Cleveland essentially gave him away. Again, Mayo shoots alot because he is asked to by Floyd. I don't know why you ignore this. Floyd told him that's what he wants from him. Mayo could easily play facilatator. Only time when he starts going 1-on-5 is when he's hot, then, yes he will start chucking shots, but the greats do as well. Gordon is also asked to score by the Bulls because that's his best assett. What do you want a SG to do? His main job is to score and play defense. That's why Hughes shoots alot too. That's their job. Mayo plays really good defense and I've seen him smother opposing defenders. He just has trouble guarding super quick guys, but even at that, when him and Derrick Rose played each other in AAU ball, there were times when Rose simply could not get past him and vice versa. USC has better individual talent than Kansas State, but they're not a great team. Their system is terrible and they have too many individuals such as Davon. Plus, the spacing again makes it terrible for players such as Mayo who use their quick first step to set up alot of their offense. It's a reason why Derrick Rose hasn't looked like a superstar. Both players will be much better in the NBA. As far as Hinrich, he's a mediocre PG. A great 5th starter and by that, you have to surround him with a ton of talent or with a bonafide superstar. His jumpshot has never been anything to write home about, and it took him a long time to be able to make a post entry pass which I'm still not so sure he could do with consistency. He's a natural SG as well. That's where he played in college and high school. His defense is what put him above the rest of this team, and he's no longer great at that. He also gets cheap fouls after he feels there was a blown call and he loves to complain to the refs. Cleveland gave Larry Hughes away because he was a terrible fit. He isn't a half-court player and he needs the ball in his hands to create. Mike Brown basically runs the "Give LeBron the ball and get out of the way offense" which made the rest of the team stagnant. Hughes loves to run, Cleveland never did. The injuries as well were just the writing on the wall. OJ Mayo today is alot better than Hughes or any other guard on the Bulls team and it's not even close.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 08:35 PM) I don't want OJ Mayo anywhere near this team, right now he's basically Ben Gordon with a weaker jumpshot and isn't quite as awful defensively. He goes 1 on 5 with regularity and very rarely creates anything for his teammates. A 44 FG% and a 3.3/3.5 Ast/TO ratio bodes very poorly for the NBA. He'll score points, but that's about all he'll do, and rather inefficiently at that. That makes it hard to win, as shown by USC's 20-10 record and 1st round loss to an inferior team. He's an especially suspect fit if Hughes and/or Gordon is still here next year, since all of them are shoot-first players and none of them can distribute the ball and create for others with any kind of efficency. Even with Hinrich's drop-off in play he has an Ast/TO ratio well north of 2, which is more than you can say for any of them (yeah, I know, Hughes is at about 2.1/1 with the Bulls. That's a pretty small sample size.). I'm not saying Hinrich is the long time answer at PG since he appears to have forgetten how to hit 3's and defend, but it's clearly not any of those guys. Ben Gordon and OJ Mayo are in no way comparable. They play completely and I mean completely different games. And you cannot compare college stats to NBA stats. There's way less spacing in college and Tim Floyd's offensive system has really crippled Mayo's game. Everyone on USC tries to go 1 on 5 and that's why they never played like a team. And Kansas State isn't really inferior. They have Michael Beasley who many considered the best player in his high school class along with Bill Walker who many considered better than OJ Mayo. Let's get this straight, Mayo was never asked to create at USC. He was asked to purely score by Tim Floyd and he embraced that role. Floyd has said so before and continues to praise OJ on his work ethic and leadership. I'd take any of the other guys you mentioned over Hinrich as a starting PG. Hinrich can't shoot and he's terrible at creating for others. His best asset which was defense, has been lost. He brings nothing to the table unless you call dribbling out 15 seconds of the clock, driving, and then kicking it out to the opposing team good.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 05:21 PM) I think I agree with you on a decent amount of stuff based on your post, but I'm still just not sold on OJ Mayo. Or for that matter, on Eric Gordon. I just don't think either of them have really showed me that plugging them in to our lineup is going to be a quick fix. But, I think the back court is the place that the overhaul should happen. Between Gooden, Tyrus, and Noah, with Gray as a 4th option, I think we actually have a solid frontcourt that if we ever develop it or ever, you know, stop playing 4 guards and Gooden for 10 minute periods down the stretch as leads bleed away (Seriously, how many leads does this small lineup need to lose for the Bulls before Boylan realizes..."hmmm, rebounding down the stretch might be useful"). If you pencil down Goodon, TT, and Noah for 30 minutes a game between those 3 positions, I think the Bulls set up a solid front court rotation next year. I'm less sold on the back court though. Ben Gordon is looking to me like a time bomb. He didn't get his contract this year and it showed. He clearly was missing a lot this season. Instead of taking a step forwards, he took a step backwards. He doesn't look to make anything happen for anyone but himself, he's not a ball handler, he's not getting better at his weaknesses, he wants a lot more money than what he's worth to this team, and he's convinced he's an all star starter if he ever gets the minutes, which he doesn't earn. He's a hard worker by all accounts, but I'm just not sure he's a smart worker. I'm sorta happy with Thabo and Hughes...Hughes would be hard to move now, but he has a contract that expires in the Wade/Lebron/Melo year, which makes him very valuable as a trading chip in a year or two, he's actually able to slash in to the lane and break down a defense or draw a foul, which is what Gordon seemingly refuses to ever try, despite the fact that he should be great at it as fast as he is. He's guaranteed to make some mistakes. But I can live with some of those. And Thabo's development this year, although it's been stunted since he got hurt/since his minutes vanished when he came back, but a 15 point 8 rebound guard who can play real good defense could be darn useful. I think that the PG position is where we have to try to upgrade, is the message overall. I like our rotations in the front court, at SG if we can trim away some of the excess people, but with the way Hinrich has performed this year I just can't see him carrying this team. I'm not sold on Gordon either. I always thought if you drafted him, you're drafting Ben Gordon part 2, except I still think Ben is more explosive as a scorer and Eric really did look awful down the stretch. Pretty much a non-factor as well in his tournament game.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 04:12 PM) 30 points vs Marquette in a 1 point win and was 10-11 from the free throw line. I'd find a way to trade up. Marquette doesn't have any worthwhile big men.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Mar 23, 2008 -> 04:03 PM) Count Hibbard of Georgetown off my list. In a tough fought game and against a 10 seed, he scored a whopping 6 points and had 1 rebound. I've counted him off the list since last year. All you have to do is play uptempo and he is negated right away. I think Aaron Gray is a lesser stiff than this guy.