retro1983hat

Our worry should be the Twins. They are chasing us down hard right now. Last time I checked, having a better record and being better than the Cubs has resulted in no division titles. Stop focusing on the Cubs. The Twins will lap us if we are not careful.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 11:00 AM) That is why God invented the internet... You are wrong. Al Gore invented the internet.

It seems like every day I check the scores on the bottom of the ESPN scroll and the Twins are losing early and then always come back to win. I am seriously scared of these guys. We are off to this unbelievable start and they haven't let up. Actually they have made up quite a few games. Personally I think we will win the division, but we won't go wire-to-wire. Minny will catch us at some point and hold the lead for a bit.

I think more importantly than Frank getting more money is that Ozzie and KW show Frank he's appreciated. Last year when the Sox were running the ads that said "14 years, one uniform" it showed how Frank stuck with this organization. I don't want to see him in another uniform. That standing O on Monday was a testament that Sox fans remember what he has meant to this team.

QUOTE(BigNDfan80 @ Jun 3, 2005 -> 08:45 AM) You shouldn't have a problem, it looks like there's way too many tickets available as usual. They'll probably draw 73,000 for the entire weekend series.

I hope so. I am scared that the Twins are going to be within a game of us or even overtake us by the All-Star break. That friggin team is relentless.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca03.htm The declining value of a Frank June 3, 2005 BY CHRIS DE LUCA STAFF REPORTER Torii Hunter loves to hate the White Sox, but the Minnesota Twins center fielder knows icons deserve respect. That's why talk that Frank Thomas might be in his final season with the Sox doesn't sit well with Hunter. "You think Chicago White Sox, you think Frank Thomas,'' Hunter told the Sun-Times during spring training. "He is the face of the White Sox.'' Thomas, who rejoined the Sox this week for the first time since July 6, 2004, is entering a new phase of his career. Despite what Hunter believes, Thomas isn't the face of the Sox anymore. He doesn't even have a guaranteed spot in the lineup these days. The new face of the Sox is manager Ozzie Guillen, who, on the same day Thomas returned to the lineup, got a contract extension that could stretch through 2009. Contract talk and Thomas have become intertwined in recent years, and it's his current deal that could lead Thomas out the door before the start of the 2006 season. Under a contract that was restructured in December 2002, the Sox will get their first opportunity next offseason to cut ties with Thomas. There are five possibilities for Thomas, who turned 37 on May 27: *Thomas could exercise his option for 2006, and the Sox could agree, meaning he'll earn $10million next season. *Thomas could decline his option for next season, but the Sox could pick it up at $12 million -- a highly unlikely move for either side. *The Sox could cut ties with Thomas, ending a relationship that began when he was picked in the first round of the 1989 draft, and buy out his 2006 contract for $3.5million -- making him a free agent. *The Sox could buy out Thomas' deal for $3.5 million and re-sign him to a reduced contract in 2006. *Thomas could be traded this season, helping the Sox avoid his offseason contractual issues. Many Sox fans -- evidently forgetting the unceremonious exits of such favorites as Carlton Fisk, Jack McDowell, Robin Ventura, Magglio Ordonez or even Guillen as a player -- believe buying out his contract and re-signing Thomas is the most realistic of the five options. They might be right -- but don't bet on it. Fans love him, bosses don't This is a delicate situation for the Sox. They finally have proved they can win without Thomas. His contract has been a point of contention since spring training 2001. The new Sox -- with their small-ball mentality -- would love to part ways. But then there are days such as Monday, when a sellout crowd showed up at U.S. Cellular Field. It wasn't Opening Day, and the Cubs weren't the visitors. The reasons for the big turnout: great weather on a holiday and Thomas' 2005 debut. Sox management may not love Thomas anymore, but Sox fans certainly do. But fans don't grasp just how much general manager Ken Williams and Guillen detest Thomas. The day Thomas agreed to his restructured deal in 2002, Williams didn't hide the fact their relationship had deteriorated. "Frank and I are not going to have any social conversations on a friendship level,'' Williams said that day. Thomas' relationship with management has frayed throughout his career. But he and Williams got off on the wrong foot during Williams' first spring training as GM in 2001. Just as Williams was about to address the full squad for the first time in his tenure, Thomas walked out of the clubhouse. It was an odd scene in the training-complex parking lot, watching Thomas climb into his black Mercedes just as an exasperated Williams reached the curb. Thomas, of course, was upset about his contract and the diminished-skills clause he wished he never had allowed into the document. Why did he ever agree to such a clause? "I thought I would continue to hit .340 every year,'' Thomas told the Sun-Times last year. "The game is a lot tougher than you think. It was very humbling.'' Money has been a sore subject with Thomas for much of the last five years. He has been on his best behavior this season, though he could just be polishing his image, knowing that free agency is a distinct possibility this winter. Before the 2002 contract restructuring, Thomas was on the market during a conditional free-agency period. He found no takers then, and the biggest deterrents were his health and his reputation. Since taking over as manager before last season, Guillen has stressed he wants Thomas to be a better presence in the clubhouse. When Thomas rejoined the Sox in mid-April, Guillen welcomed him back -- with a warning. "It is good to have him here because now he can see a winning attitude, because he was part of the bad attitude [in the past],'' Guillen told reporters. "Frank was a big part of the bad attitude. "Now he can see the guys, how we handle stuff, why we're not whining every day.'' Guillen's hard line Last weekend, with Thomas on the verge of returning to the Sox' lineup, Williams couldn't conceal his excitement over a big bat joining an inconsistent offense. Guillen's enthusiasm was much more tempered as he made it clear Thomas must produce to keep a spot in this best-record-in-baseball lineup. Guillen finally can take a harder line with Thomas than previous Sox managers because of the success the team has enjoyed during the slugger's absence. "In the past, winning or losing was because of Frank,'' Guillen said Sunday. "When the White Sox lost, it was because of Frank Thomas. When they win, it was because of Frank Thomas.'' It's true. In 1994, when Thomas hit a career-high .353 with 38 home runs and 101 RBI in 113 games, the first-place Sox had a one-game lead in the American League Central before the strike wiped out the season Aug. 12. In 1997, the year of the "White Flag Trade,'' Thomas led the league with a .347 average, plus he had 35 homers and 125 RBI. In 2000, when the Sox won the American League Central, Thomas was runner-up for MVP, hitting .328 with career highs in homers (43) and RBI (143). And when the Sox were major disappointments in 2001, Thomas was limited to 20 games because of a torn right triceps, hitting .221. The 2002 season was also a disappointment for Thomas (.252 average) and the Sox (13-1/2 games behind the first-place Twins). The thinking long had been that the Sox' fortunes rested on Thomas' success. Until this season. "This team has proven it is built around the pitching. It's a different team,'' cleanup hitter Paul Konerko said. "We've had many games this year where we've had minimal offense and won games. So you can't compare this team to other teams we've had the last few years because it's totally different.'' 'He's still a threat' And that's the point. With the bulk of the Sox' money spent on pitching, a supersized bat such as Thomas' isn't considered the most important piece of the puzzle. Except to opponents. "Frank Thomas scares me,'' the Twins' Hunter said. "I know he can take you out of the park. I'm an athlete -- I know he can do it. "Man, I thought he would retire with the White Sox. You know, a lot of teams probably want him, not to be the first baseman, but to DH. He's still a threat when Frank Thomas steps in the box. All of us have respect for him. We know what he can do.'' Thomas also knows what he can do. But for the first time, he is biting his lip. He's still the brightest star in the clubhouse, but the team no longer revolves around Big Hurt. "It's about getting a ring. That's all I'm here for,'' Thomas said this week. "I've done everything personally I can do. The ego thing ... I'm 37 years old now. It's time to make something out of your career. I'm looking forward to getting a ring.'' LUCKY 7 Frank Thomas is the only player in major-league history to bat .300 or better with at least 20 home runs, 100 RBI, 100 walks and 100 runs in seven consecutive seasons, a stretch that ended in 1998. In 1995, Thomas became the first player in history to accomplish that feat over five straight years, and in 1994 he joined Lou Gehrig (1929-32, 34-37) and Ted Williams (1946-49) as the only players to reach those totals four consecutive seasons. FRANK'S FIVE HIGHLIGHTS 1989 With the seventh overall pick in the draft, the White Sox were hoping to pick Simeon High School center fielder Jeff Jackson. But he was taken fourth overall by the Phillies, leaving the Sox to take Auburn first baseman Thomas. Thomas, a tight end, played football at Auburn with running back Bo Jackson in 1986. On draft day -- June 5, 1989 -- the Sox (20-36) were in last place in the old seven-team American League West, 16 games behind the California Angels. Greg Walker, now the Sox' hitting coach, played first base that day. ''I was hoping Chicago got me,'' Thomas said on draft day. ''They're not doing well at first base, and they're not doing well as a team. I'm excited about that.'' 1993 Thomas, 25, won his first American League MVP Award, becoming the 10th unanimous MVP pick in major-league history. He set a franchise record with 41 home runs, 22 of which tied the score or put the Sox ahead. In his first postseason, Thomas hit .353 (6-for-17) with 10 walks, a home run and three RBI in the AL Championship Series. ''I was shocked, but I guess that's the way to win it,'' Thomas said of being named MVP. ''I told my wife [Elise] I think I'm going to retire when I'm 35. I think the only way I'd stay beyond that is if I have a chance to do things to get in the Hall of Fame. I'd definitely like to make my mark on the game.'' 1994 Thomas became the 11th player in major-league history to win consecutive MVP awards and the first in the AL since the Yankees' Roger Maris in 1960 and '61. Thomas led the AL in slugging percentage (.729), on-base percentage (.487), walks (109) and runs (106). He also hit .353 -- still a career high -- with 38 home runs and 101 RBI. He became the third player in history to bat .300 with 20 or more homers, 100 RBI, 100 walks and 100 runs in four successive seasons, joining Ted Williams and Lou Gehrig. The Sox were in first place when the players' strike wiped out the season at 113 games on Aug. 12. ''When you play 113 games, that's a lot of games,'' Thomas said. ''The playoff teams were shaping up. Everyone knew we were going to be there at the end. I think my stats are deserving. ...I'm really disappointed we're not in the World Series. Everyone's very disappointed. But this is something that I can smile about.'' 1997 Thomas hit .347 to win the AL batting title, becoming the second player (third time) in Sox history and first since Luke Appling (.328) in 1943 to accomplish the feat. Listed at 6-5 and 275 pounds, Thomas became the largest player to win a batting title. He reached base in 15 consecutive plate appearances May 16-20, one short of the major-league record set by Ted Williams. He went 10-for-10 with six singles, three doubles, one home run and five walks during the streak. He reached base safely in 133 of 146 games and hit safely in 111 of 146. On Sept. 30, the Sox sign Thomas to a six-year extension that put him under contract for the next nine seasons. ''Frank Thomas already ranks among the greatest hitters in major-league history,'' then-general manager Ron Schueler said in a statement. ''After just seven full seasons, his name dominates the White Sox' record books. We felt it was important to ensure he remained a member of our organization through the 2006 season.'' 2000 Thomas established career highs in home runs (43) and RBI (143) while hitting .328 to finish second to Oakland's Jason Giambi in AL MVP voting. Thomas hit just 15 home runs -- with 77 RBI -- the season before and was named the 2000 Comeback Player of the Year by The Sporting News. While leading the Sox to the AL Central title, Thomas was named to the club's All-Century Team, earning the most votes from fans. Though he hit .333 with 26 home runs and 75 RBI in the first half, he was left off the All-Star team. He was hitless in nine at-bats during the AL Division Series. ''I felt embarrassed for not getting the job done,'' Thomas said. ''I just sat in my [offseason home in a Las Vegas hotel] room and thought about how it feels to let another opportunity to get to the World Series slip away.'' FRANK'S FIVE LOWLIGHTS April 1997 As Major League Baseball honored the 50-year anniversary of Jackie Robinson breaking baseball's color barrier, Thomas created controversy during an ESPN interview later broadcast on ABC's ''Nightline.'' Asked about Robinson, Thomas said: ''I have to be honest, I guess I'm more from the new age. I didn't know much about the history and that part of things.'' Thomas later told Chicago reporters the comments were taken out of context from a long interview: 'I'm shocked that something like that could be put on 'Nightline' at an opportune time, when it's the 50th anniversary. Play the whole interview. Don't judge me with just the opening of the interview. I remember doing one interview, and I praised Jackie in that interview. Something like this will stay in my career forever.'' Spring 2000 Thomas refused to run a shuttle drill early in spring training, irritating manager Jerry Manuel. The two had a closed-door shouting match that could be heard by passers-by in the clubhouse. Later that week, Manuel made Thomas run the drill by himself -- in front of his teammates. ''It was definitely heated,'' Thomas said. ''But it was a good thing. I took in what I needed to take out of that meeting." Spring 2001 As Ken Williams was stepping up to deliver his first speech to the full squad as general manager, Thomas walked out of the clubhouse, upset about the ''diminished skills'' clause in his contract. During his six-day walkout from camp, Thomas was ripped across the nation for complaining about a contract that would pay him $10 million annually. ''Chicago has once again probably turned on me because of statements made this weekend making me sound like a greedy person,'' he said upon his return. ''I haven't been a sweetheart in Chicago lately. I'm a great person. I've always been a great person. I want the fans to know I am going to honor my contract. This has been an ugly situation. ''I did look like the poster boy for greed over the last weekend. But that is not the case. I have never been greedy.'' May 2001 On his weekly radio show on ESPN 1000, former Sox pitcher David Wells was asked to comment on Thomas, who said he didn't want to embarrass himself and play with a sore right triceps that had been bothering him. ''If he is afraid to embarrass himself, then he is embarrassing himself right there with that comment,'' Wells said on the show. ''If you don't have the guts to be out there, you know what, you don't need to be here. You need to be somewhere else and learn how to play the game with guts and glory.'' Thomas' response to the Sun-Times: ''He ain't no [bleeping] doctor. If I could be out there, I'd be out there.'' It turns out Thomas, whose father died the day the comments aired, needed season-ending surgery on the triceps. April 2004 Thomas, uncomfortable with his restructured contract that gave him a series of one-year packages with team and player options through 2006, said he wanted a firmer commitment from the Sox. ''After the year I had last year, it's a little disappointing come the 1st and 15th this year, but I'm going to keep on ticking,'' Thomas told the Daily Southtown in comments that caused outrage. ''It's not a challenge to me because I'm used to proving myself.'' HURT BIG Here's a list of the pitchers who have served up the most home runs to Thomas: Mike Mussina 8 David Wells 6 Jamie Moyer 6 Mark Langston 6 Brad Radke 5 Kenny Rogers 5 Aaron Sele 5 Roger Clemens 4 Sidney Ponson 4 Kevin Appier 4 Ismael Valdes 4 Bob Tewksbury 4 Bob Wells 4 Scott Karl 4 By the numbers 1,927 - GAMES 6,853 - AT BATS 1,309 - RUNS 2,113 - HITS 444 - DOUBLES 11 - TRIPLES 436 - HOME RUNS 1,440 - RBI 32 - STOLEN BASES 1,452 - WALKS 1,134 - STRIKEOUTS .308 - BATTING AVG. .429 - ON-BASE % .567 - SLUGGING % 2 - MVP AWARDS Lists by Chris De Luca It seems that the Sox would love to part company with the Big Hurt right now. I, personally, want Frank to end his career with the Sox. He deserves it and so do the fans.

Throw in Joe Borchard as well. Get his ass away from the organization so we won't even be tempted to bring his swinging-and-missing ass up.

I'd be shocked if anything happens until July 1.

Pardon me for trying to be serious, but has Chavez been on yet? If so, what did he say?

The Sox are getting a little over their skis. It's only June 2.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 10:13 AM) I think the team's success has swelled Ozzie's ego so much that he thinks he can win with whatever crap he throws out there. Agree 100%!!!!!!!!

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 08:54 AM) Is Kevin Walker Venezuelan? True. I guess I was making more of a point that Ozzie gives some mid-level to poor guys a free pass: Timo and Damaso Whereas some very talented players have to grab some bench as soon as they do anything wrong: Frank Thomas and Tad Iguchi

Several Notes: 1. Ozzie should've walked into the locker room after the game, told the players to enjoy their day off and said the loss was 100% his fault. Ozzie should have told the players all the blame for the loss is his own. 2. If you think Jeff Brantley was tough, wait until October (if the Sox can actually hold on), when every pitch is analyzed. Ozzie will be really under the microscope then. 3. I have a strange feeling Ozzie feels a special bond with the Latin players given his patience with Damaso, Timo and last night not PH Konerko for Uribe. JMO. But it seems like there is something going on with his reliance on those below-average players.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 08:56 AM) make more threads about it. In all seriousness, just keep winning. Attendance is already up double digit percentage points over this time last year, and it shows no signs of slowing down. The attendence is fine. I fully agree with you, but I do have to say I cringe when I see the empty sections in the lower level. I have the 9 game package and I have to admit, none of those games are on Tues-Wed-Thu-Fri. Oh well, yes, true winning is the only solution. I guess I just wish the attendance was higher so our players and coaches don't have to be asked about it when it sucks.

No, this isn't another complaining about attendance thread. I'm just wondering what the Sox can do to improve the Tues-Wed-Thu-Fri attendance. It seems like the Monday half-price attendance will be fine and our Saturdays and Sundays the rest of the year will be a good gate. But the weekdays need some propping up. Actually I wonder if the half-price promotion has hurt attendance overall. It has devalued the rest of the week. Last night was 19,000 and the Sox would be thrilled to get that many tonight. The weekday attendance is, well, weak.

Back when the Bulls were winning championships they knew exactly how to play the DL game and keep 14 players on a 12-man roster. Once Frank is healthy and productive, send Carl to the DL for 15 days. Send Shingo down. Keep Willie and Gload.

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 30, 2005 -> 07:58 PM) Exactly. They're going to loiter around 3-5 games back of us until things matter. Hopefully this time around we still can find a way to beat them instead of having a meltdown against them like we did last season. Agree 100%!!! The Twins will be close enough to us to take us over all year if we have a long losing streak.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ May 30, 2005 -> 08:48 PM) Wow, a positive attendance thread. Quick, somebody, take a picture. I was there and the place was packed to the gills. But if you want a bad attendance thread, wait until Wednesday. No special promotion, early start time. My guess: 21,000.

QUOTE(DABearSoX @ May 27, 2005 -> 12:32 PM) A booth with hawk and blackjack would acctually be quite enjoyable....at least Jack can have stories about being a GOOD player rather then DJ's "This one time I thought I had a hit but that darn guy caught it UH OH" BJ really broke down what was going on and what the pitchers could have been thinking....Kick DJ out give Jack a new job UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!! UHOH!!

Who's doing the games in Texas this weekend? It'd be great if McDowell could continue. Also, would Brooks be the guy to email concerning DJ's partners when Hawk is not there? I want to offer my kudos for Blackjack's day in the booth.

I thought Jack McDowell did a very good job. He was engaging, had funny stories and had a lot of insight on the way pitchers think. Much better than Vetura or the Pope. IMO

We have basically been playing .500 baseball for about the last 3 weeks. We have been at that 18 games over mark for close to that long.

Funny, Blackjack will get 8 runs of support just by being in the booth. That being said, it should be fun.

It is so sad that 7th inning stretch thing. They get the people that are just on the cusp of celebrity. Last year I was at a game when Bea Arthur sang it. Pretty pathetic. The only thing sadder than the 7th inning stretch at Wrigley is that asshole Grant DePorter and how he whores everthing that has to do with that stupid Bartman Ball.