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QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 01:10 AM) Rose isn't a superior scorer at this point in time, he scores about 2 more points per game but he does so less efficiently than Deron. I think he will eventually become more of a pure scorer than Deron but I haven't seen any indications that he will ever be a distributor the way DWill, Paul and Nash are (but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, just that his game resembles Wade much more than any of those guys). Rose also didn't have the benefit of anyone worth a damn offensively this season though. I don't think he's taking more shots, and less quality shots, by choice.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 01:04 AM) I'm not saying being in a big market doesn't matter but originally we were talking about LeBron and New York (I thought) and it was kind of all over the place. Well, you said that it's overstated the amount you can make in endorsements in big markets v. small markets. Mine focused on specifically basketball and how the big markets can mean more than just the number of people in the city you can make money from but also the markets globally you can cash in on - even if you would grant their national popularity may stay the same. I don't know, I think it's hard to deny. Chris Paul, Durant - these players are nowhere near as popular as they would be if they were on NY, Bos, Philly, even Washington probably. And that means a lot in the big money national endorsements, because they are only going to give out so much. And some lesser players fortunate enough to live in big markets where ESPN will pimp them, get a huge advantage. I'll say the equalizer is for someone as good as lebron, everyone, even casual fans, have heard of him. And my point was that a city like chicago, LA, new york have a global following that adding a player increases interest in those markets.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 12:59 AM) It's more than assists and points. Most NBA people will tell you that Williams is a tier 1 PG with Chris Paul. And they're pretty much right. Derrick Rose is in that second tier right now, albeit a high second tier. WARP shows this, Williams was worth 13.2 WARP last year, Rose was worth around 5.5. Williams also created 10 more wins than Rose did last year. some of them might mention steve nash as well.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 12:58 AM) Strange Sox ... why would he have a better chance to win it with the Bulls than Cleveland? Rose? You overestimate Rose. He's not going to s*** on his hometown and come to Chicago. It'd be less of a blow to pick NY or Miami but he's not going to do that either. He's still young. He has to win a title for Cleveland which hasn't won s*** in forever. He'll be remembered there forever as THE No. 1 hero of Cleveland. He certainly isn't going to go to CHicago where the Bulls won a ton of titles with Jordan. No way in hell he comes to Chicago. Yeah, Garnett tried to be the no. 1 hero forever for the t-wolves. Ask him if he feels bad that he got to leave and win a championship and play in another with Boston. Ask Shaq if he feels bad for leaving Orlando to go on and win 4 championships. The rest is just made up B.S. by sportswriters on a deadline. that "I want to be the Man" stuff is pretty overrated, see: Celtics.

QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 12:58 AM) Does that mean LeBron is coming to the Bulls? Hahaha

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 12:55 AM) Well I thought we were talking about how bigger markets can make LeBron more money, not the other players. Hence my confusion I guess. Well oddly enough the biggest US markets have also been the most damn successful in NBA basketball.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 11:43 PM) That's more for the player marketing the team than vice versa. Jordan made Jordan a global brand as much as he made the Bulls a global brand. What? Yeah, that's the point. The bulls are a global brand because of jordan and it benefits the players on the bulls. Lebron would have an uphill battle to make the cavs and that matters. The celts/bulls/lakers - people know these teams and players abroad. Basketball is by far the most popular american sport globally. When i've traveled people knew who derrick rose was. They didn't know who chris paul was. I wonder why? Think of it this way. Manchester United is by far the best known soccer team in the U.S. That's probably the one a lot of people could name if even just casual followers. Take a really good player like Cristiano Renaldo *also since he's kinda flamboyant and I bet anything he's a hell of a lot more popular than on Real Madrid. This stuff matters. And there's a lot of money in doing s*** like razor commercials in europe.

Hey, so, i'm just throwing this out there since we have a day. How do you guys feel about this max contract + salary cap NBA deal. Seems stupid to me, just put a salary cap and that's that.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 12:29 AM) I am probably in the minority here but I don't think this loss is a big deal. The guy hasn't pitched consistently all season. Sure he has been hot lately but he gave us a lot of bad starts too. I think he is fairly replaceable and we have the weapons to do it. Losing him and gaining a bat is still a big win. oh you mean he's been hot when the team suddenly became a winning team and is within a game of 1st place.

highlight for me is still kanes goal v. nashville.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 11:32 PM) How so? Give me something to actually point out why everyone thinks they are so far apart. Frankly, I am surprised of the lack of appreciation for Rose on a chicago board. In the two years he's been in the league, he's been the best player on his team and basically the best player on the court in the playoff games he's played in. D Rose is 1st in scoring, Williams is 5th D Rose is 5th in FG%, Williams is 12th D Rose is 9th in assists, Williams is 3rd They are nearly even in Rebounds also, boozer didn't suddenly start scoring when deron came. He certainly got better, but not by a huge clip. Nothing that says he can't be a 20/10 guy with a still good-great PG in Rose.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 11:28 PM) I don't understand what you mean. Jordan made the bulls a global brand. News of a new amazing bull on the only team a lot of countries followed means sudden interest and markets in china/europe/south america, etc. that he would not see in cleveland.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 11:23 PM) It's true, I just think the difference is oversold. I don't, especially globally. It actually helps to have had stars before pave your way when you are talking about global endorsements.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 09:34 PM) they could have went with nobody and torched the thing and tried to be a lottery team next year. The way the NBA works it is a crazy but viable option eh, it's only worth it in a really good draft year. 2003 was that year.

seriously, the highs and lows. And my production. oh my god. Leblowjobs all day tomorrow.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 08:16 PM) Bulls brass has actually killed themselves. hahaha

i don't know how anyone could stay in cleveland. Place is awful. Miami i get. I unno. Remember 6 years ago when we thought it was nuts the lakers could add glove and malone? Now teams are hoarding legit prime-age superstars. Sigh. The rest of us are fail.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 05:03 PM) completely different sport and structure both in salary and competition, if the White Sox got to those positions they automatically have a chance to win a WS, the Bulls can continually get to the playoffs as a mid to low seed for the next 5 years and maybe even pull an upset or two in the East, but still be very far away from winning an NBA title. Cardinals from '06, i believe, are a good example of a team scraping into the playoffs and everything working right for them and they win a WS, Marlins have never won a division but have won 2 WS titles, however when's the last "out of nowhere" NBA team that won a title? sigh, yes, so many mediocre teams have torn through the playoffs and won NBA titles recently. Like...um...oh...wait! oh...yeah. that's right.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 05:03 PM) completely different sport and structure both in salary and competition, if the White Sox got to those positions they automatically have a chance to win a WS, the Bulls can continually get to the playoffs as a mid to low seed for the next 5 years and maybe even pull an upset or two in the East, but still be very far away from winning an NBA title. thank you. The nba is just different. I feel comfortable saying chris paul will never win an nba championship on the hornets. Good but not great team, you just don't get lucky in the nba, in fact, they even extended the playoffs to make sure "lucky" didn't happen. Even the underdog "pistons" had 1 great player in billups, good player in rip, and some great defensive players, and then added sheed, etc.

rock i think you need to remember we are talking about the NBA. There's no real mystery who the best teams are. If you get a few stars, you're set for years. Look at the NBA's history. While other sports are moving more towards parity, the nba is staying the same. Why? Because there is only a handful of these stars, and they can affect the game they play more than any other sport.

do you guys realize how much money the bulls made in season ticket sales?

QUOTE (daa84 @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 02:43 PM) this is the type of stuff that gets dangerous though...you can't overpay for some guys just because you struck out with others...im not saying i wouldnt welcome either lee or boozer with open arms, but max deals for those guys is too much IMO Yep. ON the other hand...what the hell do you do with 30 mill in cap space. I kind of wish we had our best defensive guard back.

all about the money? He gets to play with another legit star now. Also, how many times do you hear about an athlete staying with the team that drafted him as "all about the money". God, I've been waiting for this offseason for 3 f***ing years. NBA is dead to me. The salary cap has done the opposite of parity. This is a joke, i've never seen the talent centralized like this ever before.

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jul 7, 2010 -> 01:21 PM) Im surprised to hear people upset at the way the Bulls have handled this. No matter what happens I like how Chicago approached this off-season. Really? Does it matter that we handled ourselves well when our team is f***ed in basketball limbo with prolly 26 other teams for the next 10 years? Yay, we asked our girls to the prom the most impressively...but we're still going stag. I feel sorry for all those that bought season tickets.

what the f***, i certainly didn't expect to go to bed and wake up to find it all over and us completely f***ed.