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I don't think it opens up anything for this discussion. The SD manager did not ask he-who-shall not-be-named to injure any one. He asked him to not swing at one pitch. Theere was no reason he should have ignored the coach.

I have no problem with throwing at a guy, just not his head to cause injury. A 80 mph in the buttocks is fine with me. You should not listen to the manager if he wants you to do something that is wrong. Not baseball philosophically wrong but just wrong. Injuring someone on purpose is wrong. That would be the only reason to throw at someone's head. I agree both managers emabarrassed themselves. The SD manager should not call out his player in public. The Texas manager should not be offended his pitcher made a bad pitch so that he-who-shall not be named could hit the grand slam.

I don't think its a strawman argument. I think it's people changing their philosophy based on what suits their opinion. They think the manager can be ignored yet blame the manger not the player when things don't go well. I agree that the most important aspect is that the GM and manager are on the same page. It doesn't work well if they aren't. I think that's why Renteria is still around. This is why when everyone complains about all of his lineups and moves, I'm indifferent because I don't think most of them are strictly his moves. The team acquired players like Mazara to see if they could work with him to become an everyday player. He will get that opportunity no matter how he is currently doing against LHP.

Your idea. I just really like it and will stick to it.

No. Totally different. Injuring someone on purpose is not the same as taking a single pitch.

I didn't bring that up. The other poster said it was a possibility. Besides there are many players in baseball who are "me first" players. When I worked for the Brewers Gary Sheffeild came up to play third base and hated Milwaukee. Tom Treblehorn was the manager and Sheffield fielded a ball at 3B and threw it over the head of the 1B. He turned to the dugout and said "when are you trading me." He played in the MLB for years. Bottom line is, players need to listen to the managers.

I know. I was commenting on the "that's why you have managers" part. If the front office calls many of the lineup decisions and the players are allowed to ignore the managers during the game, what use is there for a manager?

This is a different topic than the first. I agree the manager should not do this in public. But most people like it when a manger calls out a player or players for not doing well, this is what most people said Renteria should have been doing for the Sox when Keuchal called the team out. I still disagree with the first part. You have a manager to call the shots during the game. It doesn't matter if a player decides it's not the best. You don't know that's what Tatis was thinking anyway. He could have been thinking along the lines of your first comment that the grand slam will get him paid more in FA so to hell with the manager. You just can't have the players doing that.

I totally agree. If they expand the playoffs as well it could work.

This should always be the case.

I'll settle just for hitting to the opposite field occasionally instead of pulling everything.

What I think actually happened was that Burdi is one of the smart ones that was attempting to alter his mechanics to decrease the stress on his elbow after surgery. He played around with a couple of different methods and has found one that is a good compromise between stress and velocity.

If you go to the "he-who-must-be-named" thread, players do not need managers nor do they need to listen to them so it really doesn't matter.

Professional players should listen to their coaches. These aren't little kids with attention span of gnats.

Inmates should not run the asylum.

Even if that's the reason and you are making just as many assumptions as everyone else, the player still needs to listen to the coach. And before you start on the ruining his career excuse again, one pitch won't do that.

yes. Unfortunately, ligament just take time. I would be shocked if it was anytime in the next week.

Players and managers haven't always had a take on 3-0. Sometimes they did, sometimes the didn't. But if the manger gives the take sign the player should listen. I guess I'm old but I still think players should listen to coaches and mangers.

Not saying it was a good decision. Just that managers have their reasons and the players need to do what the managers say.

Managers give a take sign on 3-0 all the time. The reasons are too set up a bigger inning, make the pitcher work more, work on the patience of the hitter and many others.

Exactly. It was one pitch.

This is wrong in so many levels. Why have a manager then if the players should do whatever they want? Let the players make their own lineups and the bullpen pitcher who runs the fastest to the mound get to pitch the next inning.

The only issue would be if he ignored the manager.

Regardless the players should listen to the managers.