Balta1701

The White Sox have been impacted by injury far greater than Cleveland has, although I don't believe that's enough to make up a 4 game difference. The White Sox have one of the oldest rosters in baseball, were even more injured in 2021, and had guys who were injured coming into the year, so it also shouldn't be surprising that the White Sox were more injured than Cleveland. If you played out this season 10 times, I'd bet the White Sox are more injured than Cleveland 9 or 10 of those times. For next year...if your prediction is that the White Sox will be the healthiest team in the Central and that's how we'll make up ground against Cleveland, I again say "good luck" and look forward to hearing how no team could possibly be expected to deal with the rash of injuries that hit them in April of 2023.

It is a "Clear bias" to assume that the White Sox will be anything other than the healthiest of the three teams. Precisely.

A couple posts before this we got the "If Anderson, Eloy, Robert, and Moncada are all healthy next year" post. You yourself have suggested they will be healthier. What you guys don't realize is that's literally what you're saying when you say stuff like that! The White Sox were middle of the pack this year in number of injuries and performance lost to injuries. If your plan for next year is "they will be substantially healthier than this" - you have just said they will be one of the healthiest teams in the league! You just won't accept this because it feels in your gut like the White Sox must have been hugely banged up this year, when in reality they haven't been unusually injured this year. So yeah, I'm going to apparently spend the offseason pointing out every time someone says that they will be drastically healthier next year is a prediction that won't hold true, and I will also sigh and dejectedly look forwards to hearing next April that no one could have possibly predicted the 2023 rash of injuries, because that's exactly how this will go.

And Minnesota's bubble is larger than Chicago's bubble. If Minnesota wasn't one of the actually banged up teams, the White Sox are in 3rd place right now. You say no one cares if Leury and Ruiz are racking up IL time - 57 of the White Sox's days are Velaszuez, 90 are Mendick, 98 are Crick, 26 are Burr, 340 are Crochet and Stiever. We sat here last offseason hearing about how the White Sox just had to be healthier in 2022. They actually were and yet people won't even believe it. The idea that they're suddenly going to be the healthiest team in the league is something that should be scoffed at, yet here we are having people insist it will happen.

This conversation literally started because of a poster suggesting they would be healthier next year and arguing that the White Sox were exceptionally banged up this year. Neither of those is the case. For a thread about next year, if you're planning for the team to be healthier next year, and then they're in the middle of the pack in injuries again, I don't want to hear how "no one could have predicted this rash of injuries" for the 3rd straight year, but I know they will - because people even complained about injuries in '15-'16 when they were the healthiest team in the league. People will always complain about injuries, but the context says the White Sox weren't particularly banged up this year. The White Sox have the 2nd fewest IL days in the division this year - even if you assume they should be higher because the front office is a bunch of dunces who can't figure out that a guy should be on the IL despite the fact that he's swinging one handed, that isn't a team that deserves to complain about injuries. The only guys they lost for the season are Crochet and Mendick. Right now, the Twins have their top 4 starters all hurt, where would the White Sox be if Giolito and Martin were their top 2 starters? The Tigers were in the same boat for much of the year. Cleveland has definitely been very healthy, healthiest team in the division, but given that they're also the youngest team in baseball that level of health may well be sustainable next year. Furthermore, unlike the White Sox, Cleveland has multiple guys at AAA who can either step in to fill roles for them next year or who could be traded to fill holes when they pop up. On top of that, the other 3 teams in the division could possibly be healthier as well, and they have more room for improvement on health than the White Sox. The idea that this team is going to be healthier next year and that is going to be a key part of them being better should receive a ton of skepticism every time it is stated. It is unlikely to be true and not supported by anything other than anecdotes. People simply don't understand how many injuries an average team suffers over the course of a MLB season.

Yeah, because after all the White Sox would never turn their "insurance policy" into an everyday player just because the manager liked his veterany grindyness.

This feels like a playoff series where you're down 3-0. You are up against an opponent that is close to evenly matched, better coached. They have to win 1 game. You cannot lose any games or your season is over, and even if you win 3 straight you still have work to do.

But those nagging injuries in most cases have still turned into IL trips, with the exception of Robert who is just dead. They could have IL'd Vaughn when he first had his bruise and saved a week. Robert aggravated his wrist injury because they didn't put him on the IL. And on the second point, if someone is trying to convince me that the White Sox will be healthier next year - "the few young guys they have are injured all the time" really, really doesn't help that argument.

Since he was sent to the minors and brought back he has a .784 OPS and 9 HR in 218 PAs. His BABIP is also a little low and that could be helped by the shift ban next year, so effectively that’s an .800 OPS pace. He was definitely a guy trying to hit weak ground balls the other way all the time in April and May, so a real hitting coach could help make that a real thing for him. From 1b that would be tolerable - a .750 OPS guy there is about 1 WAR and an .800 OPS guy there is about 2 WAR. Guys like Hoskins and Cron are getting $7 million a year for that production. That’s not worth trading anything for, but if your roster is in a financial crunch next year (the Sox are) that isn’t the worst option I’ve ever seen. For Gods sake though throw whoever suggests trying him in the OF out the nearest window.

You realize that if they bring Andrus back he plays 140+ games and probably puts up The low .600s OPS he put up over 20-21, right?

Martin could also be a guy who starts off as a 6th starter, picks up a couple mph when moved to the bullpen, and then is a decent reliever for a couple years.

So...you're replying to me to agree with me?

Well that got Clase a day off. Any chance they had him warming at some point?

What has AJ Pollock done to convince someone he belongs as a starting OF other than "not being as bad with the glove as Vaughn"?

In some ways, winning 2/3 gains you nothing. You gain a game in the standings but Cleveland gains the tiebreaker.

No. Gavin Sheets should not be in LF. Full stop.

I wouldn't be mad or frustrated with a second half breakout. I am disappointed that they're still going with 11 throw games.

It isn't solved until Vaughn and Sheets no longer ever play the OF.

The Twins have said they hope to get Buxton back before the end of the season. Polanco is questionable, he's on a rehab stint but he was pulled from the game on Friday so not sure of his status. Kepler is on the 10 day IL with a wrist injury and eligible to come off this weekend, no idea if he actually will though. Could be a very different lineup for them by next Tuesday.

Right now their top 3 starters (Gray, Mahle, Archer), Polanco, Buxton, and Kepler are all on the IL or injured. That's on top of Sano and Royce Lewis, a couple backups (Jeffers, Garlick, Larnach), several relievers (Shastack, Coulombe, Alcala), and the starters they never had this season including Paddack and Maeda. That's legitimately banged up.

Huh? Those 2 guys have ERA's in the low 3's, Martin has an ERA in the high 3s. They have K/BB rates around 2.8, Martin is at 2.2. As I said on the previous page, I have no issues with Martin being part of the top 6/7 pitchers next year, but the bolded makes no sense to me.

That's assuming no salary cut this year.

I will totally agree with this. The Guardians have been extremely healthy. There is a strong chance they will be more banged up next year. However, I stress this as well - here's an exercise on the average roster age this year done at the trade deadline. The White Sox, 4th oldest roster in MLB. The Guardians? Youngest. In general, health should go along with roster age. https://www.statista.com/statistics/236223/major-league-baseball-clubs-by-average-age-of-players/ The White Sox have been hit by injuries, but there's fewer injuries than one should have expected given the age of the roster. Out of the league, the White Sox are roughly in the middle in terms of injuries, which is actually better than one should expect given their ages. Out of the division, the Guardians have been the healthiest, the White Sox are in the middle, and the Twins and Tigers have been utterly devastated by injuries. Did the White Sox lose some games because of injuries this year? Yes. Did that cost the White Sox the AL Central? No. Was it more injuries than one should have expected? Absolutely not. Could the White Sox be healthier next year - yes it's possible, but a prediction that they will be healthier is a prediction that one of the oldest rosters in MLB will be one of the healthiest rosters in MLB. That is at the least unlikely - and the only way that I see it being true is if the coaches and training staff are in fact really bad, and they're all replaced. But personally, I can't wait until I get to hear how the 2024 team is certain to be healthier than 2023 and that the injuries are finally past them.

Of course. Do you know how hard it is to build a 2nd place team? What an accomplishment. He tells ownership this every day to remind them what a good job he’s done.