Balta1701

Of course. Do you know how hard it is to build a 2nd place team? What an accomplishment. He tells ownership this every day to remind them what a good job he’s done.

Gavin Sheets might bring you a 5th starter type back. Nothing that makes the white Sox better. If you want someone better than that, you will have to trade someone worth value. I do keep eyeing Milwaukee as both Woodruff and Burnes have 2 years of control left, Vaughn with 4 years of control could be a key piece in a deal for one of them.

Their catcher is an impact player? Giolito is? They have an impact LF on their roster? I don’t even know who you’re referring to there. It must be Vaughn right since Pollock only missed a short stint? Vaughn who is a 0.4 fWAR player in 507 plate appearances? That’s like me saying the Tigers couldn’t afford to lose an impact player like Torkelson.

The only guys they lost for the full season were Mendick and Crochet. Thats nothing. Go compare to Detroit and Minnesota and get back to me. Detroit at one point had their top 5 starters on the IL. How would the White Sox have endured that?

The white Sox were generally average this year in terms of health league wide, and frankly healthier than they should have been given the age of their roster which was among the 10 oldest in baseball. If your plan involves replacing the one guy who is never on the IL and you are expecting them to turn into one of the healthiest teams in baseball to get better…well I hope the problem was the training and coaching staff, because otherwise they could easily be more injured next year.

Doing that swap and losing the huge value gotten out of Cueto leaves this team worse on paper. At best treading water. And Cleveland probably is better next year than this one given how many rookies have contributed to them this year and the strength of their system. You better find me a way to get more out of the other guys who are here.

The two important points: 1. VAfan is completely drained of hope. He wrote a dozen threads before the season about how great this team was going to be. Now he’s doing the same thing with how hopeless he is. This says something about the fan base after this season. 2. so many of these guys underperformed the big answer is still the same thing - try a professional, well qualified coaching staff, found through a detailed search and with people who actually deserve the job, rather than the current lineup of schmucks, yes men, and nepotism hires. What’s the harm?

Hendriks will not bring a big return, not with his contract. He’s movable and will return something; but not someone who is going to make the white Sox substantially better in the near future.

Wacha is nearly a 4 WAR pitcher this year and Quintana is a 3 WAR pitcher. I have to figure they’re at least making $10 million next year. You might even legitimately talk about those guys getting qualifying offers. Gibson is a 1.5 WAR pitcher with an ERA of 4.5. Big range in price for Guys like that can run from Cueto to $8 million for Kluber.

What the heck is with this start time?

I have no issue with Martin being part of the mix next year he’s earned that chance. But right now the Sox have 4 starters under contract other than him, and 3 have had issues this year - Cease (yay), Lynn (injury and long recovery), Kopech (injuries and arm buildup), and Giolito (injury, COVID, and sucking). As is, that’s a spotty rotation with zero depth behind it. High ceiling, but someone gets injured and it’s a catastrophe. And be honest, someone from That group will miss a couple months or will struggle for a couple months. At the very least they need to know who the 6th starter is, as without a lockout it’s darn unlikely you’ll find a quality pitcher left at the end of training camp, and that 6th starter should be good enough that if he gets 25 starts you’re not screaming to cut him. It would also be nice to know who the 7th starter is as it a very likely that person will be needed several times. Unfortunately, I see no way to answer those questions without a free agency or trade move, and this org is very limited in the resources available for that.

You are completely correct. The White Sox barely had 5 to open training camp, Lynn, Gio, Kopech, Cease, Keuchel. Velasquez was apparently their backup option. They were lucky enough that Cueto was still available when they had their first totally predictable injury, and also lucky that Martin stepped up. That was a shocking lack of depth for a team that fantasizes about being a contender - Cueto signs somewhere else and good chance this team is below .500.

Didn’t James Baldwin have a bunch of people hating him? Canseco. Ordonez although we didn’t quite know it yet.

Oh there were serious assholes on that team.

You’ve successfully excluded 2001, so yeah I think you’re right.

Coming into today 5-8.

Technically he did?

Eh I don’t have a complaint there. Give a guy as many chances to succeed as a starter as you can. He’s one of those stunning bullpen turnarounds, nobody expects those.

You have less than $20 million to fill those spots and no starting pitching depth. Good luck.

GMAB, the White Sox went to arbitration with him over like $100k because they didn’t counter offer.

Yeah I would call myself unconvinced by that. I could go for Martin in the 6th starter role, because very good chance he makes the rotation out of spring training because of injury. But there is desperate need for depth.

I think you’re too high on this one, I think after this year the $9 million range is likely.

I might have missed part of this discussion, but is the point here that they don’t need a 5th starter because of Davis Martin?

They’re twelfth in the league in fWAR from their starters. So yes, slightly above average, and totally good enough to reach the playoffs as long as it’s teamed with a good offense, bullpen, and defense, but definitely not carrying the team there.