Balta1701

How exactly does Phil Rogers not know that Broadway and Phillips are starters? Whatever teams might want to turn them into, they're certainly not releivers now.

Furthermore, Renteria's last foray into the AL was an unabated disaster.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 10:21 AM) These threads kill me. Everyone insists that retooling is the route KW needs to take and then when a true "retooling" trade offer comes about, it's "oh hell no, we need young unproven kids, multiple prospects!!!". How exactly do you retool with unproven talent? Trading from a strength (SP) to fill a weakness (SS) with a proven commodity is the epitome of retooling. If you're going to trade Garland for 3 unproven kids, that's rebuilding. This team has, what was it, $80 million tied up for next year in just a handful of players, right? We're not going to get better by grabbing other fairly expensive guys in exchange for our fairly expensive guys. That doens't give us any wiggle room. The only way we're going to get better is by grabbing guys who can fill our holes cheaply. We'll get better if we get good players who are making small amounts. That's how we got so good in 05; we filled our holes with guys who were bargains. Dye, AJ, Iguchi, Crede, etc all made less than what their performance would have earned them.

QUOTE(joeynach @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 10:46 AM) Just release him if no one will trade for him. Hes hurting this roster by taking up a spot for some other starter to get some MLB experience. Really Id rather eat the $10 Mil then let him play, hes done he cant throw over 90. You're not eating $10 mil to non-tender him, you're eating his whole $20mil+ contract I believe

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 10:15 AM) Eggs-ACKTLY!!! If someone absolutely WOWED Kenny in a package for Garland...he'd be gone. Danks, Masset and Rasner?

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 09:41 AM) I don't understand why this guys point has to be taken to this extreme, especially when his context isn't "We all know God rules all and science is crap so don't believe anything you hear about global warming," but instead it's about journalists and how they cover stories. You can trust in science AND question it. You can believe the Goracle if you wish and still follow these: Yes, you can question the science. But this is not how you question the science. You don't question the science by just asserting that because science has been wrong before in one particular case you don't like, the science must be wrong again. That's why I use those sort of lines about throwing away your computer; because the logic is exactly the same. If you don't trust the science in one case which you don't like for political reasons on the grounds that science has been wrong in the past, then by the same logic, you should trust nothing that science has ever given you because it could be proven wrong. You should not trust quantum mechanics because physicists once didn't believe in it, you shouldn't trust medicine because some cures have been wrong before, and you shouldn't trust chemistry because it hasn't yet figured out how to turn lead into gold. That is the exact same logic you're trying to apply here, and it is simply faulty. If you want to question anthropogenic climate change, the way to do that is simple. Show me the data, good solid data, which undermines the theory. Show me where we have evidence that atmospheric CO2 has not tracked and driven climate change in the past, show me a theory which explains some mechanism whereby increasing CO2 in the atmosphere will not increase themperatures, or give me some other sort of important data.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with setting up a pitching staff for 08-09 that looks like Buehrle, Garland, Vazquez, Danks, and Haeger/Floyd/eventually Gio. If we got some decent offense out of a few spots, and a bullpen, I'd say that rotation would set us up to compete every year it was around.

Max Planck was once told by a professor that he shouldn't go into Physics as a discipline, because "in this field, almost everything is already discovered, and all that remains is to fill a few holes." Because science never, ever, ever learns new things with time, therefore, you should throw away your computer, because it is actually run by evil magic and you can never trust that it's not going to sprout arms and come after you.

QUOTE(striker62704 @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 09:07 AM) hitlesswonder and balta1701, you both made alot of good points. I never considered the roster issues and the arbitration issues that would arise from calling up a player. I guess they have to do good in AA and then REALLY impress in spring training in order to make the jump. It also does depend on your situation. If, for example, I was 2 games up in this division, and I really needed another guy in my bullpen, whether it be a righty or lefty, then I might give serious thought to bringing up a Gio or Russell, plugging them in, and seeing if they can be that last piece. Think about guys like Jenks and Wainright over the last couple years as prime examples. But since we're not, I can't see a good reason right now to not leave those guys in the minors this year and maybe give them a shot to earn a big league slot next spring if we open one up.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 07:46 AM) As for Podsednik fathom, what's the difference. 1 for 3 with a walk is hardly embarassing himself, despite the pickoff. He won't be back next year so it really doesn't matter. Actually it would not surprise me one bit if he is traded by next Tuesday. Are you sure he won't be back next year? Are you really sure? Really really sure? I wouldn't mind at all if he were moved, but I can't imagine that happening.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 08:53 AM) A lead off hitter needs to get on base. An OBP less than .300 is not good. But, Owens does bring speed when he gets on, which IMO measn he is a good 4th or 5th OF'er at this point, but not the starting CF'er. (except on this team that is) His OBP is low because he's hitting .230 or so. He has not yet shown that he can consistently hit big league pitching over the long term, which is suppressing his overall numbers. But, if you'll permit me the "small sample size" issue, in July, Owens is hitting .296 with a .356 OBP. During his first callup his OBP was a whopping .214, which is why his numbers for this season look so bad. But, again, he's still a rookie, and it's actually possible that he might have learned something this season, which would be a very good thing.

There are a couple of important reasons here. First of all, the talent level between AA and the bigs is fairly disparate. You don't run into many Manny Ramirez's at AA these days. While our AAA league may be weak, the talent level is still above what there is in AA. And to some people, making that big of a jump is going to lock them into struggles that it takes a while to get out of. A classic example? Gavin Floyd. He was used to dominating in the minors and beforehand, he was brought up from AA, got shelled, started fiddling with his mechanics, lost confidence, and really hasn't recovered yet. Secondly, you're wasting arbitration time on people. Call me greedy, but I would rather have people as big-league-ready as possible before they hit the majors, so that they don't waste years adapting to the big leagues and hit FA a year or two earlier. And third, some people simply aren't ready physically for the rigors of a 162 game season. Esp. when you talk about pitchers or guys who are recent draftees, there's a big jump between a minor league season and a major league one, and a lot of pitchers wind up having major issues when they jump from 130 innings a year against minor leaguers to 200+ innings a year against major leaguers. Think, oh, Mark Prior for this one. There are some guys in our organization who don't have much more they can learn at the minor league level. Floyd, Owens, Sweeney, Richar, etc. IF this season is lost, we might as well give them a chance to start adapting to the top level competition. But for guys like Gio, Russell, etc., guys who haven't hit every level yet, if this season is lost, there's no reason to rush these guys; bringing up Gio this year won't save this team, and it might hurt us long term.

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 11:13 PM) He's never hit for much power or drawn many walks in the minors so his average might continue to come up but otherwise, what you see is what you get. His last 3 seasons in the minors, he has put up walk rates that are almost exactly what Podsednik has put up in the big leagues, and Pods has always struck me as a fairly patient leadoff hitter (which was one of his actual strengths). And Owens did that with fewer k's than Pods, but of course, against less talented competition.

QUOTE(BaseballNick @ Jul 23, 2007 -> 08:44 AM) If you need to ask whether or not he's any good, then I think you already know the answer. Seriously, folks, he's a rookie. He barely has any at bats in the major leagues, and overall, there are high school kids who have probably played more baseball than he has. He may well stink. Or he may well turn into something useful. Long term, I don't have a clue. His numbers in the minors do give reason for hope, but you never know how that'll translate to the big leagues. So, we may as well give him the chance to learn the league, because if he could turn into a decent leadoff hitter, which I don't think anyone here can possibly rule completely out, then he solves an awful lot of the Sox's problems for the next 5 years.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 03:16 PM) That means absof***inglutley nothing. . God, I am so sick of people mentioning the draft position in the MLB Draft Dude, seriously, do you think I wouldn't prefer to be 25 games over 500 and on our way back to the playoffs? I may as well make a silver lining type joke here. Can't hurt right?

Seriously, we need to find some way for Javy to start that game and for Vasquez to be called up and pitch. The box score would be priceless.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 03:08 PM) Ozzie now feels (as of Saturday that is) that we are out of it. There is no chance for this team to make a run at it. It is all pride from now on. I hope that we don't have to settle for just concentrating on the race between the Royals and Sox to stay out of the basement. You don't have to settle for just concentrating on that race. You've got the race for draft position and the NFL preseason! And the occasional Michael Vick trial and so forth!

QUOTE(BaseballNick @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 03:00 PM) Way to find the bright side. Hopefully there aren't many Boras clients atop the draft class because we're on the fast track to our first top 10 pick in about a decade. I can't wait for some of our youngsters to get here. Losing sucks, but losing with some of our young talent would be easier to watch. I especially want to see Richar, Sweeney, Russell and Gio out there (although I doubt KW would call up Gio so soon). I do not want to see Gio up this year, and I hesitate to bring up Russell as well, esp. since neither of them has jumped to AAA yet, and Russell just moved to the pen. Floyd, Richar, Sweeney, and Owens should, IMO, play every day/pitch every 5 days for August and September. I want Gio to be ready to be called up if Garland or Vazquez is dealt at the deadline next year. That's where I'd pencil Gio in for.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 02:56 PM) How much does Jack Wilson make and when is he signed through? I don't really like Wilson a whole lot, but if they were signed through the same years, is there any chance of a bad contract for bad contract deal, Contreras for Wilson straight up? Again, Wilson isn't a very good player at all, but he's a better-than-average defensive shortstop and at the very least, you can rely on him for a .300 OBP (I know that's not saying much). That doesn't really "solve" our problem at SS, but if Wilson is only signed through 2009, he can hold the spot down for a year or two.

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 02:43 PM) We need players who can hit the ball off and over walls as well. Hitters like Dye was the prior 2 years. We need speed, but please no more Ozzie-style singles hitters. There is nothing wrong with Singles hitters if they hit .290+, take some walks, and steal a bunch of bases. There are a lot of things wrong with singles hitters if they hit sub-.250, can't take a walk, and don't steal bases. Esp. if they either keep getting hurt or play bad defense.

Coming into 2006, who did people prefer as the backup Middle IF? Alex Cintron or Willie Harris? I'll sure put myself in the Cintron category. Long term, Willie's sure making that the wrong choice, but it's a miss I think very few people here wouldn't have made.

And our draft slot keeps improving.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 02:14 PM) Don't the White Sox have about 10-12 players locked up already next year to about 80 million or so ? That would seem to eliminate them from going on a spending spree in free agency without clearing significant payroll first, correct ? Yes. Like I keep saying, this team needs to get younger and cheaper. If we can't get something out of the guys we currently have in our minors (Anderson, Sweeney, Floyd, Gio, Owens, Richar), then either we need to move a couple guys to find young talent to fill those holes (Garland?) or we need to just blow it all up, take a top-of-the-draft pick the next 3-4 years, and come out hopefully as stocked as the Tigers are now.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 10:04 AM) Sorta; from what I've seen of Owens, it'd be hard for him to get 20 XBH's in a season because he's just that small. So if you're not in scoring position, you need to be getting on at about a .400 clip to be valuable. That's what makes a guy like Jimmy Rollins or Jose Reyes such great players is that they are always in scoring position; if they get on at a .330 clip, they'll still score 110-120 runs because how often they are only a hit away from scoring. With a single, you either need two hits or a stolen base and a hit to score. But if JO is stealing at a 75-80% clip, which he's been doing in the past 2 years at AAA and in the big leagues, then he's an awful lot better even if he's just a slap singles hitter.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Jul 22, 2007 -> 01:55 PM) Wow, I just realized with a loss today that the Sox would be in a tie for last place in the Central. Another step upwards in next year's draft!