Balta1701

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 11:54 AM) I'd estimate that Anderson would barely be in top 15 if he was in our minor league system right now. Sanchez and Saladino were never MLB starting caliber guys to begin with. They'd probably be way down in the 20s on the present list. A part of that worth remembering is that Anderson, given his experience level, was still pushed fairly aggressively. Totally could have been worse, but back in 2015, especially after a slow first half in AA, I was thinking the appropriate time for him to come up for the first time looked like mid-2017 at the earliest, with him getting extra time at both levels to work on the K-rate and other things. I couldn't be as furious about his callups as I was about some people because they did wait until he had a good month or two at each level before promoting him, but every time you could say "yeah but the K-rate, the walk-rate, the defense are things he needs to work on". They pushed him aggressively enough that he only had a little time for each of those to improve at the upper levels.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 03:38 AM) The A's ate no money in the deal. I'm sure the return could have been better if they done so. Beane also goes against the grain when it comes to prospects/players. I'm still expecting a decent return for Robertson. Which, btw, is exactly the opposite of Beane's comments yesterday - which talked entirely about how they need to have a strong, winning team when they move into their new ballpark so he's now trying to maximize his team's talent for that time.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 10:47 AM) The sox only control him through 2019. He's going to need an OPS near .900 to have real value, because of his defense. They should probably buy our his last 2 arb years. No use wasting the asset...and if he flops again, no big deal really. And I don't think he will flop. There is no reason why the White Sox won't be able to afford to keep Garcia if they like him, but there's also no reason to talk about an extension with him yet. He's done enough to get the arb offer for next year. Right now, with an .850 OPS, rather than .900, he's on a path to a 4 WAR season. If he's able to put up an .850ish OPS again next year, I sit him down and talk to him about high 8 figures and 5 years after 2018 and go from there.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 08:49 PM) Cause the Cubs had scored all of 16 more runs than the Sox this year. So much run support... I can't find where this is calculated on a public page, but he's got the worst run support of any pitcher in MLB since 2013. Until the Blue Jays game, he had the worst run support in baseball this year. It's not even about the averages, although the White Sox's offense has been bad. For him...it's been "Amazingly" bad. Like "something really weird and 9 sigma outside the margin of error so not statistically random" happened when he was on the mound.

QUOTE (daggins @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 08:02 PM) Ehhh I think Florial or Mateo is probably the best we can do from the Yankees. Maybe a Frazier + Robertson package to the Red Sox would get Chavis + a lower prospect. The Doolittle/Madson trade is a real headscratcher and it makes me question whether there's much of a bullpen market right now. If that is the market for bullpen guys, I'd still probably consider trading Robertson (his money could sign a comparable value trade chip next year and the extra 1 year on the contract has to be worth something), but he'd be the only pen guy I'd even think of moving. I'd be surprised if that's the market based on what we've seen spent on bullpen pitchers the last few years...but who knows.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 06:35 PM) Given the mystery surrounding his injury, I'd think the Sox want to be very careful with him for the rest of this season if for no other reason then to protect his future trade value (given who his agent is and that he'll be taking him to free agency...) If he pitches 75 innings this year and 100 innings next year then I'm not trading jack for him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 05:26 PM) They want to stay out of the luxury tax. Didn't you say they have $10 mil or so in space?

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 05:12 PM) So....you want them to lose...with dignity or something? This is EXACTLY what this is supposed to look like. 2014, 2015, 2016...when they were actually trying to win but couldn't muster a .500 record, was much more embarrassing to me. It would be darn nice to see the highly drafted SS prospect not regressing on defense. The other 2 errors are by the kind of guys we're supposed to be playing right now.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 05:10 PM) Limit his innings and tank for a top three draft pick next year. His inning have already been limited by being on the shelf for 3 months.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 05:09 PM) they can bide their time. They can wait out Frazier on a waiver claim if necessary. Frazier isn't so overpaid that you can have 100% confidence no one makes a grab beforehand, even if just to block.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 05:08 PM) I know they are going to lose games...a lot of games...a ton of games but this really is becoming an embarrassment. Starting pitching is horrific, the defense is brutal (three more errors today) and you blow a five run lead to a mediocre (at best) team. At home. Just sad. Like I said I know they are going to lose but these guys are supposed to be professionals who are getting paid very, very well. At least they should act like they give a damn (even if they have to fake it.) RR is supposed to be good with young players and to be able to teach the fundamentals. On that score, so far, I'm not impressed. The starters are supposed to be horrific, we traded away the top 2 and the 3rd and 4th have been hurt.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) Yeah, the defense upgrade plus facing 2 easy pitcher outs helping cut down on pitch counts are big. Don't miss the 3rd one I mentioned - Run Support. He got 6 runs scored for him today. He no longer has to worry that every pitch must be perfect.

The idea of Q on a team that can play defense and where he doesn't have to worry that if he gives up 2 runs, one of them unearned on a ground ball, he will lose...my goodness that's terrifying.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 08:38 PM) Is it just me or has Renteria been ejected a lot? Even Benetti just dropped an Earl Warren reference on that subject.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 08:37 PM) in terms of thinking he's Davidson 2.0 is all. Plus drafting Burger...and...Matt Rose. So really didn't see the need for Dalbec I would think Davidson 2.0 would be a strong return for Frazier, and I'm not sure I'm sold on Davidson yet. For 2.5 months of a guy, getting a guy who at least has a strong power tool? I'm game. Maybe we need 3-4 guys in our system who have big time power for one of them to turn into a .250 hitting, 40 HR guy, but it'd be great to have one of those guys hitting 5th or 6th.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 08:08 PM) This is correct. Over the last year, we've seen a number of things very out of the ordinary from the Sox. I wouldn't rule anything out. With that pile of talent, all of whom will be cheap from 2019-2022, we are being dumb if we're not players after 2018. We could lose, prices could get out of the range that make sense for us based on the fact that we're probably not there in 2019...but that money is going to have to go somewhere.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 07:54 PM) Why does renteria pull pelfrey so early for? Because he gets destroyed the 3rd time through the order. OPS against - 1st time through order is .722, 2nd time through order is .592, 3rd time through the order it goes to 1.322. That Segura hit was what he's used to seeing.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 07:19 PM) Get Chavis and be done with it. On to the next. Groome would be weird. I don't understand why we are stockpiling so many pitchers when we can't develop positional talent from the middle rounds. I would be ok with either player though. Remember how many pitchers the team that won the world series last year developed out of their system? They found a workaround. Give me a stellar 1-5, trade 1 or 2 of those pitchers if things go really well, and then go sign Bryce Harper or Mike Trout with the fact you have a $6 million pricetag on your starting rotation for 3 years. Basically, give me as many good players as we can find for the next year+ and worry about the rest later.

QUOTE (maxjusttyped @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 10:55 PM) Frazier has been a lot better on the Sox than people give him credit for. Frazier's problem isn't Todd Frazier, it's that the White Sox insisted they were 1 player away and that player was him when they actually were 15 players away. 40 home runs doesn't fill an entire roster.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 10:24 PM) Hopefully he'll have a second half in which hit hits over .300 since he was .200 the first half and looked like he'd regressed quite a bit from a year ago. If he doesn't...then he had his shot and can go back to AAA until someone gets hurt. Give Leury a longer shot or give Yolmer a longer shot or sign someone to a 2 year deal - plenty of money. All I ask for these guys who are marginal is that they get a shot when no one is pushing at a position. If they don't do anything with it, give that shot to someone else.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:16 PM) Was he actually scratched? So far everything official is saying no he is starting tonight.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 08:07 PM) Looks like maybe he was not scratched This even got broadcast on one of the games I am flipping between (Red Sox/Yankees or Astros/Twins, I'm not sure which announcer said it).

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:34 PM) Good post, but it is still going to be judged on how it all pans out. Kevin Pritchard drafted Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant. If he chose Durant, he'd be the best GM in basketball instead of a guy who got lambasted, fired and finally reinvented with the Pacers. Now if you go by prospect rankings and what Hahn acquired and for whom? OK he may be ultimately considered the best GM in history. You didn't say that in your post per se, but if you read it it sounds like you are considering this rebuild perhaps the best in baseball history or one of the best.. I say that because of this sentence: "This is the gold standard. We may never see it done this well again." I will say you are right if we consider baseball rankings of prospects the end all result in a rebuild no matter if the players pan out or not. That Hahn acquired the No. 1 prospect in all of baseball, the No. 5 and so on in just 3 trades. But I say to you it all will boil down to how these guys pan out. Some of the pitchers acquired and drafted are not doing that well yet. I'm not trying to be contrarian. The Sox may already have enough stars in these 3 trades with Robertson certainly to bring a lot still to win a few WS titles. But if the players flop and they were merely highly ranked players at one point, that will mean Hahn is just another Kevin Pritchard. JUST WIN BABY. I will give him credit for acquiring top blue chip prospects via trade. But as a guy who is not a prospect follower, I still say it is wait and see on whether he is pulling off the greatest GM job in modern history. I know I am probably misrepresenting your position a bit, but I thought this issue worth discussing. Some of the arms the Sox acquired still have some work to do. U never konw about the bats we acquired. I will acknowledge if we had to rebuild, he on paper is putting together possibly a nice future roster. With what Rick Hahn started from and where we are right now, this is the best job I have ever seen, and frankly better than I could have imagined. A 4th place team destined to be even worse next year dismantled before it became too late, before guys got hurt or struggled, without any deal where it wasn't at least a draw, and a jump from the bottom of the league to the top of the league in their systems, without the accidental Edwin Jackson, yes, this is the gold standard. That does not make, in your words, Rick Hahn the best GM in history. I still consider it an open question whether he can take the resources he now has at his disposal and build them into a contending team. That's based in part on terrible moves made by Rick Hahn in 2015 and 2016. That's based in part on the other hires around the system that we should correctly be skeptical about until there are results at the big league level. Not all of these guys should even make it to the White Sox lineup. Some of them should probably be traded when we see what else develops from the system. I can't say that I'd be very mad if we decided we were going to trade Jiminez and sign Harper or however they wanted to make it work. The next question is whether or not they can take these guys and turn them into big league production, and that's Hahn's next task.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:20 PM) BTW, the Red Sox are currently under the luxury tax threshold and according to this, can add about $9 million before going over. http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/red-sox/po...ing-stretch-run If you are eating money with them, forget Panda, he's done. Do it with a guy who still may have a shot and they have no room for Rusney Castillo. But I wouldn't even do that. Hmph, their opening day payroll was listed as $199 million and they haven't cut money, so yeah there's got to be some weird luxury tax level rules that move how things are calculated around.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:06 PM) They're going to need some pitching though and Gray is the best pitcher on the market with several years of control, the other options aren't really that great either. Alonso also fills a gaping hole. This move makes sense in both the long-term and short-term, they currently hold a Wild Card spot and aren't that far behind the Red Sox, I don't think they should just punt on this season. Their window has started this year. The free agent SP market this upcoming offseason also looks a hell of a lot weaker than it did just a few months ago. Pretty much everyone is underperforming and entering their 30s. There's a lot of potential upside but also a ton of risk in guys like Cueto (if he opts out), Arrieta or even a guy like Estrada. Darvish is the only one doing well but he has an injury history and will get an enormous contract into his mid to late 30s. Here's the real trick. The Yankees today start an 11 game in 11 day road trip with 4 in Boston. Followed by 3 in Minnesota (a team they're tied with in the win column), followed by 4 in Seattle - a team they're 2 ahead of in the win column. Their schedule goes "grueling" over the next few weeks - they've played 4 fewer games than the mariners for example and have to make that up. Basically, this trip could hammer their position. They could wind up behind a bunch of wild card teams in 10 days. If they hold their ground or go 7-4, basically I'd say they set themselves up to make a big move like that, but if they go 4-7 in this stretch, they're back to .500 with a couple grueling weeks to go. But if they want to buy themselves any time to see how they go, it sets themselves up for a weaker road trip.