spiderman

At some point, you have to start winning. If they finish the year with 68 wins, but Moncada, Anderson, Giolito have breakout seasons along with Lopez rebounding in the 2nd half, it's a successful season. We saw enough from Jimenez to think he can he blow up next year as well. We're not far off from Robert being here early next year.... Realistically, a rotation this bad is not going to win consistently. They are going to lean on Cease and Kopech joining the rotation next year and have a solid group of 4 with ideally one strong top of the rotation option. If these guys can pitch, they will be good. I think it's going to be a close call though - Kopech and Cease are so young, Lopez was bad all year, and they don't have a good veteran starter. The lineup will improve. The rotation may hold them back.

I enjoy the word "catch" in these conversations.

Detroit and Baltimore are top two with KC (40W) and Miami (42W) behind them. That leaves Toronto (44W), Pittsburgh (47W), Seattle (47W) and the White Sox (46W). Worst case, the White Sox look like a top 8 pick. With a lot of losses, and some other luck, they could be 5-7.

I don't think they are targeting that. I just don't think they are going to pay a big price via trade for a starting pitcher right now. In the off-season, that could change. If they can find some controllable starter for next season without giving up much, they may be interested. If you look at the rotation, Giolioto, Lopez and Cease are going to be in the rotation. Kopech is likely too be assuming health. They do need a top of the line starter, but they also need insurance, maybe a 6th starter, veteran type who can come out of the bullpen who they can use from time to time to avoid overworking Kopech/Cease.

I have no doubt that the White Sox are looking to add controllable starting pitching, but we're talking more about guys like Nova than anything of substance, in my humble opinion.

If the White Sox trade Colome, they won't get much more than a middle of the road prospect. If they want prospects back, they could combine Colome/Bummer for a nicer return.

They aren't winning enough to be a winning team because of the rotation (primarily). Of course, winning matters, but do you really think this is sustaining and should we be celebrating .500?

With the back of the rotation being so iffy, while it is progress, what is the point of .500? It's probably not sustainable with the current rotation.

It all comes down to his innings. What is he at right now and what is the target for the season?

Agreed. At some point, it's time to compete else you're always rebuilding. They should dangle him out there, but the offer has to be crazy. Next year, aren't the White Sox supposedly interested in being a contender in the AL Central? If so, trading a very good closer doesn't seem to make a lot of sense and replacing him isn't as easy.

I think there are more storms in the forecast for tomorrow evening/night.

How old is he? What's the point of signing a closer to a 90 loss type team to a multi-year deal?

Yep, that's my position as well. They can't trade him any longer and/or sell him a a potential top line starter. Get him healthy, and let's see if he can be a contributor.

Let's imagine that everything goes as well as could possibly go with his rehab. Assuming that he begins rehab starts and needs 4-5 starts to get his pitch count up to around 80 pitches and he makes his major league debut in August, he likely wouldn't throw more than 50 innings (and probably less assuming he's on a pitch count/innings restriction) in 2020. Even if his velocity returns and he pitches well in the limited time in the majors, I still can't imagine other teams are going to give up much for a pitcher who hasn't shown the ability to lead a rotation, is still coming off of yet another arm injury and is starting to approach free agency (I think that is 2021?). That's why I think, for good or bad, the White Sox are better off just getting whatever they can from him, but in a lesser role when he returns. I don't think there is any scenario where they can depend on him to start the season in 2021 as a #1 or #2 starter. If he's a #3 starter, the White Sox are probably in major trouble still. He's likely a #4 type of starter on a contending team, but that will come with major risk.

How long has Adolfo been in the minors for? It seems like at least 6 years. I know they signed him very young.

Of course he was part of the rebuild. He just hasn't worked out.

Rodon can't be seen as anything more than a 4th starter going forward, probably a 5 if they need to protect him. At this point though, it's hard to see optimism having him in the rotation at all going forward. Just have to hope that Lopez and Giolito have the type of seasons that leave the White Sox with a couple #2 or #3 type of starters, a guy like Cease comes up (and stays healthy) around mid-season and Kopech is ready to go next year. That's again a best case scenario though. Ideally, there is some veteran starter who they can add who is more than just a 1 year rental type.

Doubtful. I would assume that he'd be on some inning restriction/tighter pitch count if he comes back in July next year. What contender is likely to depend on that? At this point, he's probably more useful to the White Sox.

Is this the end of the Nate Jones era in Chicago? Always a good pitcher, when healthy, but crazy that he pitched in more than 70 games just once in the last 6 seasons. Rodon just can't be trusted. I'm sure we will read how great he is doing around this time next year and how he can be the needed boost for the White Sox rotation should they somehow be in contention next season. Very difficult times for White Sox fans. The rebuild has shown some hope this season with Anderson and Machado, but the injuries are just taking down the chance of any sustained rebuild.

It's a rebuild of a smaller-market team. Clearly, they offered a LOT of money to Machado, but it wasn't enough. They then claimed a large reason they couldn't offer more was because they need to be able to resign their younger players several years (at least 5, if not longer) year from now. Obviously, that's not exactly operating as a large market club if they are pretending that they are going to be handicapped in 2025 or 2026. If Carlos Roden is able to stay healthy and pitch at a high level, I'm very curious what they are going to do with him. He's a Boras agent, with 3 more years (I think) under control. When (and IF) the time comes, will the White Sox pay him or trade him?

If anything, I'd like to cut Jay now that Machado isn't here. I don't see a point of adding veterans.

Any increase over last season's 62 would be progress, in theory, however, we will ultimately judge this season based on the progress of the younger prospects, many mentioned here. Speaking of Harper (or other elite free agents), teams like the White Sox do need to balance the short-term (say 5 years) vs. the long-term (10 years) of a long-term deal that could cripple a franchise if the deal doesn't produce the expected results. A team like the Yankees or Dodgers can easily absorb a very bad contract, but if I'm a fan of the Padres, I don't want to be told that in 5 years, he's the reason that they can't keep adding. Once you make a move like that, you're going to have a player in free agency.

I don't think the White Sox were ever in a position to force Machado to make a decision. His team always believed patience would be needed. A new team (SD) entered and offered the best deal. The White Sox were operating within a pre-defined window. As much as it's very pathetic that the White Sox got outbid by the Padres, especially when they have almost no payroll to speak of, there's probably a better than 50% chance (probably 60%+) that SD will regret that deal.

Agreed. I don't see much reason to spend on free agency at this point. Make the season about the youth. If they develops, they are on their way towards contention.

There's no reason to think they will pay more to sign Harper, is there?